Simplicity is hard. Let’s go shopping

http://diveintomark.org/archives/2010/02/23/simplicity-is-hard-lets-go-shopping

by mnemonik • 16 years ago

282 99 16 years ago

wglb• 16 years ago

This post is a lot of fun, but with a very good point. I particularly like the end of the story where she says You're getting restaurant gift cards and socks

wushupork• 16 years ago

Upvoted for pure awesomeness. Coming from a struggling background my mom was a hoarder and I struggle with getting rid of stuff all the time which bugs the hell out of my wife who is a neat freak and likes to have her homespace look like a magazine/catalog home shoot.

hubb• 16 years ago

by pure happenstance, a co-worker linked me today to mark's how to install windows in 5 hours (http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/08/04/xp). i hadn't read his blog before, and he's got an entertaining style

solutionyogi• 16 years ago

I became fan of his writing after I read how I can make fruit salad and get laid. :)

http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/06/09/fruit-salad-reci...

pingswept2• 16 years ago

"'Washing the fruit' just means running it under the tap for a few seconds, like how you wash your hands when you think no one is watching."

Mark Pilgrim is pure comedic power.

Raphael• 16 years ago

Coincidentally, the first step is to go shopping.

MarkPilgrim6• 16 years ago

That post still gets 1500+ hits a month from people searching for variations of "fruit salad recipe." I get at least 1 email a month from random strangers who appreciated getting more than just a recipe. :)

cubicle67• 16 years ago

protip: use http://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder/ to find your keys for Office/Windows etc

byrneseyeview2• 16 years ago

I tend to use the "inversion" argument, but mostly with vacations and not physical stuff:

"We should go to Barbados for a week. It's only $1000."

"If someone offered to give you $1000, plus an extra week to accomplish stuff you want to do, wouldn't you take it?"

This works with appliances, too: not buying that juicer means getting a few square feet of counterspace and $100.

novum• 16 years ago

There's always an opportunity cost. Traditionally you see opportunity cost expressed in dollars; I haven't really thought to view it in time.

But time is the most valuable resource there is. Money comes and goes, but would that week of time in Barbados have been better spent elsewhere?

mos1• 16 years ago

Yes. I'd suggest Seychelles.

eli2• 16 years ago

Sometimes the long term gain of taking a nice relaxing vacation is easily worth $1000 and a temporary decline in productivity.

Or, to put another way, what's the point of making money and getting things done if I never feel able to take a break?

Edit: Reminds of Stefan Sagmeister's TED Talk: The power of time off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNuOmTQdFjA

orblivion2• 16 years ago

But... you also don't have a juicer.

byrneseyeview2• 16 years ago

We ended up getting the juicer a couple weeks ago (due to a weird coincidence, we got it for free).

It has been used once. It gets in my way every day.

jmoiron• 16 years ago

Inversion works so long as you understand what the true cost of the purchase is. And yet, if someone gave me a week off and $1000, I'd immediately be looking for plane tickets, because I love travel and I'm limited more by time than by money.

lotharbot• 16 years ago

I have friends who have always been very conscious of the monetary cost of items, but seemed to think space is free (that is, "hoarders"). They very recently began a transition away from that, triggered partly by the local health department and partly by a worsening medical condition leading to full-time wheelchair use. It's fascinating to see people who spent decades accumulating stuff suddenly getting rid of it and turning down new free stuff, all because their valuation of "space" changed.

One of the reasons simplicity is hard is that owning stuff has psychological connotations for everyone involved. A digitial copy of your photograph or document "in the cloud" seems less permanent and less under your control than one on your hard drive, which itself seems less so than a physical copy -- and this perception is at least partly mistaken. Those seeking control and "certainty" may still accumulate paper copies far beyond what is reasonable, all because they have a psychological desire to do so.

IMO, it all boils down to how we value space, time, money, effort/frustration, certainty/risk, efficiency, and a whole host of other factors -- and how accurately we understand those factors. Remembering to account for "a few feet of counterspace" or "a week getting stuff done" are key to simple living.

mrshoe• 16 years ago

I've spent a lot of money traveling and I've never regretted a single dollar of it.

100k2• 16 years ago

Actually, research shows that unlike buying stuff, experiences like vacations lead to happiness that does not diminish over time.

You're not just trading $1000 and a week to get stuff done, but also a lifetime of happy memories.

spoiledtechie2• 16 years ago

research? Point to any?

randallsquared• 16 years ago

plus an extra week to accomplish stuff you want to do, wouldn't you take it?

For many people -- possibly most people -- what they want to accomplish mostly involves stuff like "going to Barbados", not "putting in another week at $job". If (like me), you have a job you like, or if you have a job that basically consists of accomplishing things that further your own private goals, that might not be the case, but such a situation is rare. Less rare for people on this site, I guess.

jimbokun• 16 years ago

"If someone offered to give you $1000, plus an extra week to accomplish stuff you want to do, wouldn't you take it?"

Yea, in a heartbeat! I'd take that $1000 dollars and accomplish my goal of spending a week in Barbados!

ErrantX• 16 years ago

This worked pretty well for me. Right up till the moment she bought it behind my back :-p

spudlyo2• 16 years ago

Very enjoyable. I've had similar conversations with my better half. I need to simplify my life as well, I just moved and have boxes of cables to electronics I no longer own. Why can't I bring myself to get rid of that first gen tivo hard-to-find console cable? I don't know.

mrduncan• 16 years ago

I've always found moving to be the best time to get rid of things. If it hasn't been used since the last time I moved or I don't feel like packing it, it's gone.

GrandMasterBirt• 16 years ago

This article is really an anti-hording thing. I immediately realized how many items I have in my house that go unused FOREVER. My wife has been begging me to throw some things out.

I am considering just looking through anything, if its a wire that has a 60% chance of being usused forever, scrapped, a cd, scrapped, a tv, scrapped. I want to do the same with my kid's toys (she has lots but plays with a key few (3year old), I mean really the biggest things we use are our computers.

Although I found a use for old textbooks: Computer monitor stands.

chronomex• 16 years ago

Second the textbook suggestion. Last year I actually used my physics book for a monitor stand before the quarter was even over. Shhh, don't tell my folks.

fr0sty• 16 years ago

freecycle them. There are groups in most population centers. Someone out there begging to find that tivo console cable.

Me and my wife have been getting rid of items not valuable enough to sell but too valuable to pitch through that channel for a while now.

spudlyo2• 16 years ago

Good tip, I'll have to remember freecycle, thanks.

eli2• 16 years ago

I put all the old books and DVDs I don't want on half.com at a very low price. It's a bit annoying having to mail them all, but it makes me glad to know that they're going to someone who wants them.

mstevens• 16 years ago

I have several large boxes that haven't been opened in 2-3 moves. I still can't persuade myself to get rid of them.

abstractbill• 16 years ago

I moved from the UK to the US in 2003, with just a couple of bags of stuff. I threw away a bunch of my possessions when I moved, and the stuff I couldn't bear to throw away, I left in storage in the UK.

On one of my trips back, I found a few big boxes full of my stuff and really couldn't remember what was in them. I'd been out of the country for a couple of years by that point, and clearly hadn't actually missed whatever was in these boxes. I threw them away without even opening them - still have no idea what they contained ;)

dlib• 16 years ago

That sort of sums up my rule. If I haven't used it in the past five years, I toss it out. It's only rarely that I come across something that I threw away earlier. Only exception to this rule is books and I doubt that'll change.

Sukotto2• 16 years ago

I had this problem too. We had a whole closet filled floor to ceiling with boxes of stuff that hadn't been unpacked in over 5 years.

One Saturday afternoon, I pulled a box at a time out of the storage closet and the wife and I unpacked it onto the livingroom floor.

Each item either: 1) Got placed in the "we will use it within 3 months"

2) Can sell for at least $20

3) Freecycle / Goodwill / Salvation Army

4) Trash

I made 10 trips to our dumpster and 2 to Goodwill. (Am now working on selling the $20/each items)

What am amazing relief. I had no idea how much that huge pile of boxes was weighing down the back of my mind.

So far, we've encountered 2 things we regretted ditching. Honestly though, the only reason we regret it is that we know we had those things. If we hadn't unpacked those boxes I would almost certainly have bought them simply because I didn't even remember they were in a box "just in case I need it someday"

Sukotto2• 16 years ago

Too late to edit/fix. Each of those points above was, one of (contractor garbage bag | large rubbermaid bin | pile on the dinner table)

mburney2• 16 years ago

Good overall point of view. But the author sounds like he's talking to his mother, not his wife.

You have to be authoritative if you're going to undertake something that goes against the norm.

nir3• 16 years ago

I'm guessing you're not married?

(EDIT: I hope this isn't coming off as some '50s "take my wife" routine. My point is that marriage isn't about authority, it's about partnership)

mburney2• 16 years ago

Since we're doing the ad hominem thing, I'm guessing that you're American, and your wife makes you sleep on the couch?

In all seriousness, my point is that the person with the more radical view on how things ought to be done has to lead in that instance, and lead with authority. This doesn't imply the entire marriage is about that. But in this instance, yes. His wife would have been more receptive to his point of view if he delivered it with more authority. Passive aggressive "experiments" to prove a point will not influence her point of view and will not carry him closer to the goal of making their lives simpler.

orblivion2• 16 years ago

One hell of a relationship this guy's got with his wife

happenstance3• 16 years ago

Heh. Wait until you're married and have kids.

tpyo• 16 years ago

Are you saying we should just leave it?

MarkPilgrim6• 16 years ago

It works for us.

Snark7• 16 years ago

I doubt that.

kpanghmc2• 16 years ago

The only part that struck a nerve with me is when he refused to plug the TV back in.

He had already made his point that they don't use the TV very often, but the fact that she wanted to use it at that moment definitely weakened his argument. Refusing to plug the TV back in at that point just resulted in pissing his wife off and probably hurt his chances of getting rid of the TV.

dkarl3• 16 years ago

She is free to plug it in herself; his refusal to do so is purely symbolic. At least, I had not considered any other possibility and am confident that most American readers would read it the same way. Perhaps I'm the one making a bad assumption, though. MarkPilgrim, do you wish to clarify?

blogimus• 16 years ago

Following the theme of simplicity, will he dump his wife?

jsolson• 16 years ago

I just sent this post to my girlfriend with the annotation "Look dear! Other people have these conversations too!" :/

mark_l_watson• 16 years ago

That was so cool. Simplicity is more difficult than clutter. My wife and I moved from a large, "partially cluttered" house on the beach to a small and very tidy house in the mountains. It was not easy going from 2600 sq ft to 1150 sq ft, and after moving 12 years ago we had to make a rule of getting rid of something when we bought anything new.

It takes real energy to go through belongings and decide what to give to the Good Will or to toss.

dasil0033• 16 years ago

I'm more interested in how it was going from 100 ft to 7000 ft since I'm planning on making that move myself.

andr• 16 years ago

One way I try to fight this is I bought a big cardboard box and put almost everything in it, which has doubtful usage. Stuff lingering on desks, old gadgets, etc. If I need something I take it out. Whatever is left in the box after a month I throw/give away. A few Arduino boards, accelerometers and RFID readers will soon be available to a good home.

pingswept2• 16 years ago

I have done exactly the same thing. It's a great system, and it helps me keep my desk neat.

I do have a lot of stuff though, so the cardboard box I got is quite large. I call it by a French name, "garage."

phsr• 16 years ago

A few Arduino boards, accelerometers and RFID readers will soon be available to a good home.

Interested!!!

jacobolus• 16 years ago

Me too! If you (i.e. andr) want to send some along to a broke student (i.e. me) who’s been saying he’d get around to buying an arduino board or two & building something neat with a musician friend for months now, shoot me an email. :-)

keeptrying• 16 years ago

About 6 weeks ago, I had to pack up all the stuff in my Manhattan apartment and stick it into storage to tend to a family emergency. In 6 weeks I dont think I've missed anything except for a few books.

llimllib• 16 years ago

I've believed in simplicity for a long time, the wife not so much.

I'd given up on getting her to buy in, when our house burned down (nobody was hurt). Now we both believe in simplicity!

(also: buy renters' insurance, even if you're poor. Especially if you're poor.)

ryanwaggoner2• 16 years ago

I'd given up on getting her to buy in, when our house burned down (nobody was hurt). Now we both believe in simplicity!

Hmm...how convenient :)

AndrewWarner• 16 years ago

I really wish more people would accept that giving me something isn't the way to celebrate my birthday or any other event.

johnrob• 16 years ago

I used to wonder why it's so hard to buy gifts for people. Then I realized the answer is that most people already have way more crap than they need.

MarkPilgrim6• 16 years ago

Left to my own devices, I would never leave the house. So I ask for experiences. From my wife, I ask for her to find a local event that I wouldn't think of going to by myself, and to arrange tickets/reservations/etc. From my parents (who live nearby), I ask for them to watch our kids while my wife and I go to said event. It works well.

trafficlight• 16 years ago

I really like this idea. I, too, hate getting gifts. I already buy the things I need and gifts just end up getting stacked in the corner.

TheSOB88• 16 years ago

What about those other people? I forget what they are called. Frems? Fronds?

euccastro• 16 years ago

I ask for nothing and I get experiences. She loves to plan, book, etc., while I usually find those events worthwhile only after the fact. Win-win, in the end.

houseabsolute3• 16 years ago

They are probably wishing that you would lighten up.

Edit: I know this seems trollish, but it's probably also true. Although I could have worded it better, my point is that your expectation that people _not_ give physical gifts is no different or more noble than other peoples' expectation that you accept physical gifts. Recognizing that, there's the tried and truism that it's easier to change things about yourself than things about others.

imd• 16 years ago

If he doesn't want more stuff, he's not being noble to say so, he's just telling people what not to get him. If someone gave you a pillow every year, why should it be rude to say, "please don't get me a pillow this year. I have enough pillows!"? I know some people are too timid to say things like this, but it is possible to say without offending.

henrikschroder• 16 years ago

I went to a birthday party this weekend, and checked the email the same day for her wishlist, if any:

"I absolutely do not want more stuff. Actually, we're gonna have a box of crap that we want you to take stuff from so we get rid of it."

It's so nice to get older and have friends like that. :-)

derwiki• 16 years ago

Ask that people make a donation to charity in your name, if they feel they must spend money on you.

robryan2• 16 years ago

It really depends on your financial situation, if your successful then yes, if your a student just getting by it's more like well if you must get me something I have really been wanting.....

mixmax• 16 years ago

Move to a boat, that will solve the problem instantly. I have roughly 16 square meters of indoor living area, and that has to accommodate kitchen, sleeping quarters, bathroom, steering, a sofa and a table where 8 people can eat for when I have dining visitors. For very natural reasons you just don't have a lot of stuff.

spoiledtechie2• 16 years ago

I actually had to move to VA about 4 months ago to take a job. I decided to go through EVERYTHING in my life and see what I needed and didn't, so I took a 3 bedroom two bath house worth of JUNK and shrunk it down to an 6X8 Uhaul Trailer. I now have 3 computers, 2 chairs, a bed, a rowing machine to stay in shape, some books and thats all I would take with me again if I did the same thing.. Ive never been so happy with all the junk I don't have...

I highly recommend living a minimalistic life style.

Psyonic• 16 years ago

3 computers? I'm sure you have your reasons, but seems a little complicated

araneae2• 16 years ago

Is it just me, or does this title reek of disdain for his wife and/or all women?

To spell it out: the "let's go shopping" meme indicates stupidity on the part of women. Here he's using it seriously to complain about his wife having "difficulty" with simplicity. This in turn implies that women in general have this difficulty, and this is a negative trait of the sex at large.

Maybe I'm being a little sensitive here, but I kind of want to smack this guy.

mnemonicsloth• 16 years ago

Yes, Mark's wife is obviously not tech-savvy enough to read her husband's blog.

Even if there were a big, strong man around to read it to her, she would be the first to agree that it isn't a woman's place to stand up for herself.

araneae2• 16 years ago

I don't understand this response.

I really couldn't care less about his wife. I'd just want to smack him if I were her. Or even if I were me. Which I am.

MarkPilgrim6• 16 years ago

Did you miss the paragraph about snowclones? Snowclones are the new black.

mynameishere• 16 years ago

This is perhaps my first meta-comment, but I can't believe such a unbelievably banal post got 238 upmods here. "I tried to unplug my TV, my wife fought against it." That's it. Pathetic.

Simplicity is hard. Let’s go shopping

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