Thesixtyone (YC W09) launches version 2.0

http://thesixtyone.posterous.com/making-the-jump-to-hyperspace

by jmtame • 17 years ago

117 58 17 years ago

thesixtyone.posterous.com

jfong• 17 years ago

Absolutely sick revamp. It's so outrageous, but it works so well. Bravo.

yannis• 17 years ago

Just simply not good and with a lot of bugs! I loved the previous version, which I considered as one of the better UIs around. In addition if you try and visit the old site link as listed on the blog you get a security warning in Chrome.

thiele3• 17 years ago

and in Firefox

Raphael• 17 years ago

I think you broke my brain.

jessep2• 17 years ago

I think this is fantastic. The layout immediately reminded me of looking at the elaborate covers and inserts in my dad's vinyl collection while listening. Essentially, feels like a more intimate way to engage music.

Definitely still some UI bugs, but I really like the direction.

The biggest UI bugs I noticed:

1) When the next song came on by auto play, the background/info didn't update. I went into "info" then exited and it updated.

2) Once I clicked for more info on a song, I couldn't immediately figure out how to get back to the bare, initial layout.

3) Next/Prev buttons disappeared when the info about the artist was up, which I couldn't close. Annoying not to be able to go to the next song when I didn't like the current one.

Anyway, congrats, I really like this.

bradgessler• 17 years ago

I'd like to add to that:

3) When I hover over a button/icon for a second or two, a tooltip would help tremendously to figure out what the button does.

This is a really great, unique design. Well done.

Update: I have run into some usability issues that I can't really describe because I have no idea how I got into whatever the feature is suppose to be. I don't think this UI is very forgiving for newcomers like myself. You're onto something with this "vinyl" look, and I know the improvements you're thinking about will probably fix most of these issues.

jessep2• 17 years ago

I sent my girlfriend the link, and here was her response:

"yeah, it looks cool. dont' quite get how it works but i like it"

revorad• 17 years ago

The new UI is very confusing, but the music is so good I don't care.

One way of reducing the confusion might be introduce UI elements gradually over time as a user keeps coming back. If at first it was just the big artist wallpaper with a small player controls widget (like the one on top of the old page), that would be so much more enjoyable. The next time the user logged back in, there could be a new UI element. This would probably also pique the user's interest and she might actually click on it. And so on...

zackattack• 17 years ago

astonishingly beautiful, and nice that you greeted me with an acoustic of a new metric fave. unfortunately the acoustic version sucks and i'm similarly not a fan of any of the next 10 songs i explored. if it actually played music i liked, this would be my preferred way to listen - and experience - music online.

kilian2• 17 years ago

very slick new design, but I'm missing a lot of things that made thesixtyone so awesome. Where are the playlists? now every next song is a gamble. Two songs further might be an acousting version or a cover of a song i'd love to hear. And why are the artist and song title only visible in the title?

Torn• 17 years ago

Click on your name in the bottom left, and you'll get a dark overlay box to the lower-right of the screen, and there'll be your 'featured' playlist. Note:

  "it may take a few hours for your playlists to fully migrate over"

my playlists are about 40% complete.

kilian2• 17 years ago

You're right, but I was also talking about the general playlists, top, latest etc. which seem to have disappeared in favor of the model they used to have for moods.

orz2• 17 years ago

the new ui is a disaster imo - usability is right out (yes lists are useful)

this redesign should have been as a new view on an existing model that is switched via toggle by the user

not to mentioned they sabotaged groups and they are now an exercise in futility called 'channels'

edit: https://old.thesixtyone.com/ is still available for a limited time

mattdennewitz• 17 years ago

"disaster" is a but harsh, but i think perhaps a better implementation would've been to supplement the existing layout with this as another view option. i like that its almost purely visual, but imagine if apple entirely replaced finder's lists with coverflow.

and, impact?! IMPACT?!

orz2• 17 years ago

as i said it is an opinion of a user, to qualify i have been using the site for almost 2 years now with over 5000 plays and a rep of 58588

i was a completely lost as to how to use features that before were very clearly designed and accessible, which i can find ways around eventually...

however the changes to the social experience are drastic and extremely negative (based on my a sample set of 60+ users in my current group)

i can attest to the fact that the accessible social groups have been the only factor in my retention over the past year, (insert reference that shows correlation between social interactions and user retention)

i understand that ui is subjective to a certain extent but if you are to enact an entire user interface overhaul it would be best to do it as a skin to allow a transition and discovery period

i would not mind leaving the current interface running as a 'kiosk' mode at a party

timcash• 17 years ago

Add a BIG button that gives a fun tutorial on how to use it. Otherwise love it. It took me a bit of tinkering to figure things out but, that kind of makes it fun!

Dauntless• 17 years ago

It feels a bit claustrophobic to me... also I don't know how to just browse songs, and most things I touch change my current song... I think you can get used to it though.

pavs• 17 years ago

Excellent! Never heard of you guys before, but I can see myself checking it out frequently. Great collection of music.

The design itself has a very "indie" vibe to it and I am loving it!

korch• 17 years ago

Kick ass! I really like the minimalist, modal single-page UI. Obviously a lot of thought has gone into it. This is one of the first sites I've seen that actually feels more like an application than a web page. I'd love to see this trend catch on more in web design fads.

tessro• 17 years ago

I agree with your sentiment. However, in this case the site has a long road ahead of it, to restore lost or buried functionality.

From the top of my head:

- Tipjar honor roll is hidden in a separate screen, which removes "status" related incentives to tip (a loss for artists)

- Social features are buried; the artist doesn't feel like they are "there" on the site

- Can't see what's ahead or behind you on the browsing playlists

- On Chrome, the user account information is occluded by the status bar whenever you hover on a link

- "Sliding" effects make the interface feel sluggish

All of these issues can be addressed without the "reversion" people are calling for... but there are some long nights ahead for the dev team if they want to match the prior version in raw usability.

amo• 17 years ago

to me, losing:

- lists that play even while I browse

- easy way to discover music, with criterias

- meet like-minded listeners via their radio, and keep building relationships

are all the good T61 stood for. I like to choose what I want to hear, select it by different means, etc.. - all you had achieved with the previous version.

Sorry, hope you have success with your new ideas. Wish you well, really.

moconnor• 17 years ago

Incredible site design, I've never seen "put the content first and get out of the way" taken to such extremes. Has anyone else got any great examples of this?

I can see why some dislike the UI, but personally I think it works very well; it's making me rethink my own web app design to see whether I couldn't learn something from this.

I bet the conversion rate from views to sign-ups is fantastic. Hear something you like? Want to favourite it? Sign up and it's done. Very slick, very smart.

wavesplash• 17 years ago

Whoa. Album covers 2.0. Pure Awesome! Love where you're going with this.

Small stuff: bugs in the paging UI (nav disappears when I open artist info, etc - on Chrome Dev here). Why not just put fixed <- -> arrows in the top nav so it's consistently placed? Also, would love the artist info popup to be _bigger_.

Great innovation guys.

mickeyben• 17 years ago

When I discovered thesixtyone.com few months ago, I was in love with this website and very pleased to discover new songs and artists.

But after few weeks, I had my ways in the website and used to play always the same songs/artists/radios, I discovered new artists less and less and finally opened the website less often using more and more Spotify.

Today, this new design is very focus on discovering new songs what I really like, the UI is incredible, the songs are awesome.

I think I have a 2nd crush for you,

Thanks,

vdm• 17 years ago

I love the innovation in this new site, and how it evokes the vinyl listening experience. However, I think it is less suitable than the old site for use at work (NSFW) because it is so colourful.

A more 'bland' page like the old version would work better when one is sitting at a non-private terminal. Perhaps this option or mode should be offered, because the site is still a fresh new way to listen to (fresh new) music.

thiele3• 17 years ago

Interesting insight regarding it being 'less suitable' for work. That's something that I don't think about now that I'm not working in a corporate office or cubicle anymore.

pistoriusp• 17 years ago

It's really cool but it's a bit complicated.

I think the main thing that bothers me is that I can't "pin" up elements that I would like to remain in place:

1) The next/ previous arrows 2) The artist/ song name 3) Song's controls (Play, pause, volume, etc...)

The randomly positioned text blurb and randomly positioned images seem to stay forever... I can't see how that text is more important than some of the other elements.

When you click on the random text blurb/ picture I get stuck. I can't figure out how to get my green arrows back. Also, there isn't a difference between clicking on an image or clicking on the text. They take you to the same place - Which I understand, but I expected to see a larger image.

JMiao• 17 years ago

the first part is addressable with keyboard shortcuts.

left (previous), right (next), space (pause), + (vol up), - (vol down), r (autorepeat toggle).

we're working on some tutorial-type stuff that'll tie things together. thanks.

patrickmclaren• 17 years ago

I do like it, but perhaps with less mouse-over states. I just want to get the cursor to the right corner and already half the screen has flashed at me.

Had used the old version quite a bit, discovered some great artists. William Fitzsimmons, Caitlin Hart, etc.

pavelludiq• 17 years ago

I like some of the ideas, but i got too shocked by the radical change. I guess i got confused because not all of my saved songs appeared in the playlists and i got pissed off. Im very interested in what the result will be after they get it polished. I guess im just a "playlist" guy, rather than a "giant picture of some band" kind.

sixSecrets• 17 years ago

The whole thing sucks and is confusing. There are going to be a lot of people LEAVE t61 over this so-called "new" re-vamp. What in the name of Hell are these guys doing to what was, a perfectly acceptable program (admittedly with a few bugs)? There very well maybe a mass exodus from t61.

hubb• 17 years ago

all i can say is wow. my favourite music site on the web just got even more kickass

andrewparker• 17 years ago

Navigating to old.sixtyone.com brings up a big red "hacker" warning in Chrome. I tried to dismiss it an go anyway, but I couldn't proceed. Just FYI.

TrevorJ• 17 years ago

I really like this. The site design is something that will translate very well to netbook/tablets. If feels very relaxed and puts the music front and center. A great way to unwind while sitting on the couch. Any plans for an iphone app?

RyanMcGreal• 17 years ago

I love the new design! I just have one question: how do you save songs now?

Edit: I think I figured it out. The dropdown plus symbol under the logo on the top right adds the currently playing song to your playlist.

I definitely second the call made in another comment for tooltips so people can learn what the icons mean.

qeorge• 17 years ago

That is really cool. Great redesign.

FWIW, this makes it feel more like a great radio station then a music discovery site. More Pandora than Hype Machine. Not a bad thing at all.

somedaywings• 17 years ago

this is amazing. i've always been a big fan of you guys, but this is crazy good!

one piece of advice: the polaroid-type photos flashing in front of the main picture are annoying. either keep them relegated to one spot on the page or give me an easy way to turn them off.

azsromej• 17 years ago

how do you view a list of top songs?

pg• 17 years ago

Wow. These guys are not timid about trying changes.

Vindexus• 17 years ago

I find this UI very confusing. I think some usability testing is in order. I used to go to the Recently Posted page and see a list of new songs. Then I'd take a look at song names and artist names and listen to a few. How do I do that now?

mattyb2• 17 years ago

James and Sam, I commend you for experimenting, but I think you might want to revert this and seek more constructive feedback from your (very) passionate community.

http://www.facebook.com/thesixtyone?v=wall

r7000• 17 years ago

Hmm, the comments on twitter are much more positive. They are mixed rather than overwhelmingly negative. http://twitter.com/#search?q=thesixtyone

I assume this is because the majority of facebook comments are from "friends" who are more likely to have been regular users already.

mattyb2• 17 years ago

Indeed. It seems like new users like it, while (at least a vocal minority of) the old ones hate it. I'm not sure driving away regular users while gaining fresh ones is a desirable outcome of the redesign.

I think this sums it up pretty well:

http://twitter.com/joebottherobot/statuses/8036178992

yread• 17 years ago

Christ! People are such drama queens! It is kinda buggy but its not like their life depends on it. Petitions? Seriously?

teej• 17 years ago

You cannot do a complete overhaul of your UI with no warning and expect users to love you.

TheSOB88• 17 years ago

Life? Maybe not. Livelihood? I'm sure it does for some.

trafficlight• 17 years ago

As a relatively new artist (about a year), thesixtyone has been an amazing place. I met a lot of new people, generated interest in my music and learned a lot from the other artists there.

With the redesign that's all gone. All of the community and social aspects of the site have disappeared and we are left staring a giant background image. I didn't go to the sixtyone to look at cover art. I went to listen to music and to discuss it with my friends and fans.

The other thing I find baffling is that they were making real money with tip and album system. Fans were actually supporting the artists directly. It was working. That feature has been buried in this design. And, by burying the discussion between artists and fans, they have effectively killed the primary reason to tip an artist.

The worst part about it is that James and Sam don't talk with their absolutely fanatical users. There was no mention that a redesign this drastic was going to happen. There was no beta period for testing. All of those people commenting on the T61 Facebook page are their true fans. James and Sam haven't said a single word.

flaub• 17 years ago

Interesting idea, I'm mostly wondering how you're going to deal with different genres for different tastes. Eventually filtering and targeting seem like they will become the number one issue for both users and providers.

I actually like how the site reminds me of a vinyl cover, however it might be too confusing for (some) people to use. I couldn't figure out how to bring back the info about the artist after it fades away.

krupap• 17 years ago

I think change can be great if it's coupled with effective user management. On a site that people use daily, this means giving your users some advance notice, explaining major feature changes, and having a "how-to" page to show users how to use the new site. Lacking the above, there is bound to be some backlash as daily users find themselves stumbling around a site that they used to know like the back of their hand and, worse, with the very fabric of community interaction changed.

fjabre• 17 years ago

From someone who wasn't a user before and who has looked at both the old UI and the new one I'll say this: The new UI is awesome and inspired. Very innovative and mood inducing. I'm an instant fan.

rrhyne• 17 years ago

Sick play list, love the huge photos, disaster of a UI. I'm going to stick with it and let them work the issues out.

narendranag• 17 years ago

I love it. And I'm an old user.

thiele3• 17 years ago

That is friggin' striking.

It's not very intuitive to navigate on the first visit, however. Once you've been to the site a few times, you probably get used to the structure. Also, the huge background makes for some really pixelated and stretched images.

Essentially, they have created the entire experience to be a visualizer. The redesign makes the experience more about listening to music and less about interacting with the community and 'quests'. I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing. I don't know if they can compete with the other music sites just based on content.

It changes what makes the T61 unique, for sure.

mkyc• 17 years ago

Yes, it feels like "vinyl" - like I'm listening to vinyl except I'm in a little storage closet and I just tipped a box of records all over my face and my face is bleeding.

You broke your site. This is a visualization with an interface crowded into it. Revert and offer this - let's calm down and be honest - basic slideshow as a new visualization.

Imagine that instead of a pretty picture of the band, there was just a white background. Now look at the interface. It's a nightmare. The song that I'm listening to is controlled at the top right, except for hearts/comments, which are on the left side (except when I try to give a heart, the button slides away from me). The song-forward and back buttons are on opposite sides of the screen, well away from play/pause/volume. None of this would be a problem if the controls were visually/conceptually linked in some non-spatial way, but they are not.

I'd like to know the user testing process you used, and whether you ran this by whoever did your already-great former UI layout. I just hope your guiding light wasn't a small group of hardcore users and passers-by shouting "awesome, intimate, inspired, daring, and elaborate". It sure as hell wasn't your community.

coffee• 17 years ago

This is my new favorite app - good stuff :)

CivEZ• 17 years ago

Clearly these guys don't understand usability. It is SO important for people to feel "grounded" when they use a sight as intricate and functional as T61 was. The play bar needs to come back. I think a lot of people feel this is confusing and you get lost in all the "minimalist" design of the page.

They traded usability and functionality for "cool" and "cutting edge" ... lame.

gruseom• 17 years ago

What I admire most about T61 is that they created an online community that is amazingly passionate. Case in point: several people have created new HN accounts just to comment on this thread.

mhartl• 17 years ago

I can't figure out the UI---or even, on first visit, what the site is, apart from a Flash app that plays music I haven't heard before. I am very confused...

Thesixtyone (YC W09) launches version 2.0

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