New Initiatives for Lyft Drivers

http://blog.lyft.com/posts/wetreatyoubetter

by petethomas • 11 years ago

110 145 11 years ago

blog.lyft.com

chipgap984• 11 years ago

I know Uber has the dominate market share, but I really enjoy life. I notice that I get better, friendlier service from the drivers and I like having the option to tip. They have rolled out a lot of impressive features and programs recently. I hope, at the very least, their actions will pressure Uber into some similar moves

usaphp• 11 years ago

Having an option to tip enforces customers to tip, I would prefer using a service that does not force me to tip by providing that option. I am against tips in general for drivers.

mplewis• 11 years ago

It does no such thing. Have you taken a Lyft? There's no obligation or even implication that you should tip.

oxalo• 11 years ago

I wonder if there's any data on accidents/ traffic violations between the two companies. Tips are supposed to be for better service, and with driving the only way to provide better service is to be faster. My hypothesis would be that in attempts to be faster, drivers may be driving more dangerously, thus increasing accidents and/or traffic violations.

alukima• 11 years ago

I'm really glad that option is there. I had an emergency involving a seizing dog and a round trip to the vets office. The driver was incredible and would have gotten a whole $9 if I couldn't tip.

toomuchtodo5• 11 years ago

Agreed. Driver's should be paid a real wage, which prevents the need for tipping.

mmanfrin3• 11 years ago

I 100% agree. This is entirely the reason why I use Caviar over other food ordering services, since they do not offer a means of tipping and even say 'there is no need to tip', as the cost/fees in part go to the driver/delivery person.

chipgap984• 11 years ago

Does it enforce customers to tip? You tip via the app well after the ride is over. I usually don't tip, but occasionally I get a great driver and toss them a few bucks. They don't make great money so the tip is worth it.

I'm not really sure why you are against tips for drivers.

forrestthewoods• 11 years ago

I tipped a driver well because he went out of his way to come back to my home to return my cell phone I forgot in his. That took time and money out of his pocket. I could have tipped cash, but having it in app made it nice and easy.

amyjess3• 11 years ago

I've heard stories of Uber drivers demanding cash tips out of customers and giving low ratings to any customers who decline (IIRC, Uber's TOS forbids this, but that's almost impossible to enforce).

That doesn't happen with Lyft: because tipping is built into the app, nobody asks for cash.

I don't carry cash, so I'd be screwed if I rode Uber and a driver threatened me with a 1-star rating if I didn't fork over cash.

jacorreia• 11 years ago

The only party that benefits from tips is the employer (let's not go into the employee distinction right now though). It just shifts the responsibility to the customer to determine whether or not the employee should be paid for their work.

omm• 11 years ago

In NYC drivers may times work with both companies. My backseat survey had most drivers say Lyft riders tend to be more chatty and friendly, while Uber riders tend to be busy with their phone and not say much.

colmvp• 11 years ago

Unfortunately, I've had some pretty bad experiences.

I used to love Lyft more than Uber but then the lack of professionalism over my last three times using it in SF have made me hesitant to ever recommend them again. First time around, the driver was completely incapable of finding me at SFO despite me following Lyft's text message instructions and communicating precisely which gate I was waiting at. Second time in downtown SF, the Lyft driver 'accepted' the ride only to basically never pick me up. Third time, same thing happened. And of course, there's that time when the driver almost ran someone over because they were focused on talking.

Now, I don't see any difference between the two. I've definitely had less than stellar experiences with Uber but now I don't see any differences between the two.

mc323• 11 years ago

I'm the opposite. I want a known fee or fare. I don't want to have to think if I need to tip or not tip. Is the tip expected or is it optional gratitude for exceptional service?

No, just tell me the amount. Most of the world works this way. Even in places where bribes are routine, there isn't as much tipping.

Restaurants are moving away, slowly, from the tipping model, mostly due to increases in base wages, making it unpalatable for all but the rich, to pay a premium price and a tip on top of that.

Pay your employees/contractors a fair wage and take responsibility for it, don't shift wage responsibility to the "fare" (paying passenger).

vivekpreddy• 11 years ago

I'm a heavy Lyft user, and I only tip when I have a particularly impressive ride (i.e. Driver goes above and beyond to be accommodating or I had a very insightful conversation). There is no expectation to tip, and I have never met a driver that's been offended with there being no tip. This with over 1k rides...

misiti3780• 11 years ago

"Restaurants are moving away, slowly, from the tipping model, mostly due to increases in base wages, making it unpalatable for all but the rich, to pay a premium price and a tip on top of that."

they are ?

learning_still• 11 years ago

Although I agree when it comes to Uber. I mean, I don't need great service from my Uber driver, I just need them to get me from point A to point B. However, the restaurant service I've gotten in places outside the United States is just awful. It's 15-20 minutes before you'll see your server again, regardless of whether the place is busy or empty.

swagswag• 11 years ago

I enjoy life also.

alexbock• 11 years ago

I found it interesting that this program is starting in Vegas given the trouble Uber has had there [1]. I don't hear about Lyft nearly as much as Uber, but I haven't heard any stories about Lyft running into issues with taxi regulations (which seem to show up here weekly for Uber). Do taxi companies find Lyft more palatable for some reason? Or has Uber just been the figurehead taking most of the heat in the news for all of the other ridesharing companies running into issues with taxi regulations?

[1] http://www.reviewjournal.com/columns-blogs/john-l-smith/mask...

rdl3• 11 years ago

This seems very dangerously like W2 employees using employer provided equipment to do a task, even if it's rented by a rental company. (IANAL)

sageabilly• 11 years ago

Lyft doesn't provide the equipment, they've just negotiated special rates with Hertz so that Lyft drivers can rent cars at a special discount if they're going to use them for business purposes.

chipgap984• 11 years ago

I completely agree with you, but I think this is definitely making the water a bit murkier. Its a pretty fine line that Uber and Lyft are toeing already and this seems to be pushing it even further.

powera• 11 years ago

Yeah, if you have to drive the subsidized car and use the subsidized gas to possibly get paid the market rate, it's the equivalent of an employee.

This is so obviously an employee status I wonder if they're doing it to try to draw a clean line between employees and contractors somewhere to their liking.

toomuchtodo5• 11 years ago

I mean, we're past that discussion aren't we? Uber and other rideshares are going to have to start classifying drivers as employers eventually (at least until self-driving cars get here). Legal determinations are already headed in this direction.

rdl3• 11 years ago

It'd be interesting if someone got in front of that and ran Uber-Prime with Uber-Prime, Inc. employees as drivers, driving vehicles leased by Uber-Prime, Inc. Maybe go upmarket of Uber by offering a 100% guaranteed rape-free experience for your minor children, borderline medical transport, incapacitated people, rich/scared people, etc.

7Figures2Commas• 11 years ago

Maybe I'm just not hip to the whole Uber/Lyft thing, but the idea of being chauffeured around by somebody in a Hertz rental car doesn't sound at all appealing.

halayli• 11 years ago

yeah because being chauffeured around by a random taxi cab sounds so pleasant.

fluxquanta• 11 years ago

It was appealing to me last week (the first time I used Uber) when it cost $40 to take a cab from the airport to my hotel and less than $20 to go back to the airport with Uber.

darkstar999• 11 years ago

Why not? It's guaranteed to be clean and well maintained. You don't get that guarantee with regular cabs.

jonknee5• 11 years ago

What is the difference between someone's personal car you'll never ride in again or a rental car you'll never ride in again? Taxis are typically rented by the day too, but who cares other than the driver and the rental company?

tswartz5• 11 years ago

I like how Lyft is trying to make it easier for more people to drive for them. But, after Lyft's cut, tax and gas the hourly rate was very low. I drove for a couple months and they promised $25 - $35 during peak time, but I netted out to about $10/hr. Now to add on a Hertz rental fee, that is going to get very slim.

Obviously this is still a better job for some people then there alternative. Lyft will market to new drivers with the higher rates and ease of renting a Hertz vehicle.

kuschku8• 11 years ago

The issue is, this is how profitable it is effectively – any driver following the law will have to pay this much.

And this is why uber can only currently provide their high margins because they provide no insurance between rides (only during rides), because they don’t follow laws, etc.

It’s unfair competition, and sadly, people expect Lyft to offer the same.

kazinator• 11 years ago

Speaking of insurance, I was going over the terms of the car rental insurance coverage in one of my credit cards. It explicitly states that if you rent a car in order to provide a transportation service for hire, you are not covered. Oops!

SilasX9• 11 years ago

IMHO, this is a misconception. Most of the benefit of Lyft/Uber comes from app convenience, being cashless, mutual rating to weed out the jerks, carpooling efficiency, transparency (easy to get estimates and know if you overpaid), good customer support, and reliability in getting a ride, all of which are legal and which cab companies could have done.

They have a lot of room to raise prices before it outweighs those advantages. Remember, people were using UberBlack (as "UberCab" way back then), which simply took existing, fully-insured car service drivers, which had no regulatory advantage, long before UberX/Lyft.

shostack• 11 years ago

Another reason Uber can do this is because they have large amounts of money riding on doing away with human-driven vehicles entirely. Once they get there, they will fire their entire driver-base so quickly it will make heads spin. They just need to make it that far.

bduerst2• 11 years ago

That's probably why Hertz does longer leases instead of rentals for this program. It would probably be worth it if you got it from locations outside of urban centers, but drove in the urban centers.

tswartz5• 11 years ago

One "savings" I see is that you wouldn't have to wash your car (which in the city for me meant an extra $35 a week). You also save on general car maintenance. The city streets are tough on the suspension and brakes. You can drive that rental into the ground :)

Mz3• 11 years ago

Already live in Las Vegas, Hertz cars are available to Lyft drivers at special affordable daily, weekly, and monthly rates. Approved drivers can quickly rent cars on-demand and earn money as a Lyft driver with no long-term lease commitment.

Most people with cars are already making a car payment or lease agreement payment, taxes, insurance, etc. Having a car is typically not cheap.

Hard to say if this will really be a good deal for anyone. That always depends on a lot of details. But I am wondering if you were perhaps not counting your car payment and other expenses because you had to make those anyway, whether you drove for Lyft or not.

Perhaps there is only a big difference if you compare it to someone whose car is paid off, not to typical car owning costs.

tswartz5• 11 years ago

My car is paid off so I didn't factor that in. But you make a good point. Probably the majority of drivers have some sort of payment, whether that's a car loan or a lease.

SilasX9• 11 years ago

Yeah, I tend to agree. Driving for Lyft/UberX seems like it only makes sense if your car was worth buying and having for reasons other than to give rides through a TNC.

This -- along with Uber's car financing plan -- really raises my "ick" factor in that they seem to be taking advantage of those who don't see the full expense or risk that they're taking on, and it may end up similar to the GM situation: "we're a finance company that happens to give rides too".

ac29• 11 years ago

Curious about your $10/hr figure. What city were you in? How much of the time were you actively driving fare paying rides?

In a city like SF, $10/hour is actually less than minimum wage, yet there is no shortage of Uber/Lyft/Etc drivers.

tswartz5• 11 years ago

I was driving in SF for two month a couple years ago. Lyft took a 15 or 20% cut right off the top, then I covered taxes, gas, weekly car wash. I also included the time when I ended a shift, but had to get back to my apartment, or had to take a break to fill gas or grab some food in between rides.

After that stretch I drove periodically when I wanted some extra money. It's very flexible on hours.

mfringel• 11 years ago

So, I can't tell from Uber's site, but is Uber doing similar things for their drivers that actually save them money, as opposed to finding new ways to make money off of them?

intopieces4• 11 years ago

This is a picture of an industry right before being automated. Rather than relying on skilled drivers with knowledge of the area, the industry can rely on computers to do most of the work. Reduction in labor costs, which are partially subsidized by coupons provided by partner companies who also make money. When driverless cars become widespread, Hertz can provide the cars and Verizon the on-board WiFi.

draw_down• 11 years ago

Yeah. That's what a taxi is.

mmaunder• 11 years ago

Some nice moves from Lyft. Feels like they've really upped their game with this and it will be an incredible case study if they're able to surpass Uber who has a head-start, which almost never happens.

Reminds me of the days when alltheweb had just become the popular SE beating AltaVista, Excite and others, and Google stormed in and cleaned up.

shalmanese• 11 years ago

Lyft had the headstart (and Sidecar was earlier than Lyft). Uber had their UberBlack program but didn't jump into the ridesharing pool until nearly a year after Lyft did.

jjoe• 11 years ago

Delayed payouts are one way for businesses to minimize loss should a chargeback occur. But now that Lyft pays out instantly, they're at risk of losing the payout (> $50) + $chargeback_fee. Is the wording of the announcement code for "Stripe is shielding us from exorbitant transaction fallout costs"?

ThrustVectoring• 11 years ago

Not necessarily - they could be self-insuring. Given their historical chargeback data, they've got a fairly good amount of information about how much money it would cost them to eat chargebacks. Lyft may suspect that they're getting their money's worth in terms of non-pay driver compensation, loyalty, and marketing.

strickjb9• 11 years ago

Does the driver typically not get paid when a chargeback occurs?

on_2• 11 years ago

I like ridesharing, great market offering for consumers and drivers. Using a rental agency like this is good because those cars are underutilized and that can help people without cars provide service. Initially, i was going to snarkily compare this to cab companies, and the point still stands the economics arent great but it is a decent trade in some scenarios.

I don't have a car, and I would be willing to drive lyft for limited funds AND access to the vehicle. Sure you couldn't take the car on vacation, but if you could make a bit of money and knock out some errands locally, I could see this catching on. The magnitude and evonomics might not be there for everyone, but the cars would just be at Hertz so it could be a positive thing for both parties.

stevebmark• 11 years ago

Happy to see Lyft dealing with the Breeze parasite https://www.joinbreeze.com/

DarthMader• 11 years ago

Lol. Nice way to inadvertently plug them. What specifically do you hate about breeze?

septerr• 11 years ago

what if Uber/Lyft etc let you lend your car to drivers? So instead of sitting in the parking lot, an uber driver could be driving it. Uber/Lyft could background check the drivers. I wonder if it will be worthwhile for them to provide insurance against theft. The driver would also need to be added to your personal insurance I guess....the insurance companies might eventually come up with plans specific for this type of scenarios.

nathanb2• 11 years ago

This is actually really cool.

I can't tell you how many people I know whose livelihood essentially depends on their single, aging vehicle not dying. These are often folks whose university debt is, essentially, a monthly car payment.

I would guess that the greatest demand for Lyft drivers is outside or nearly outside normal working hours. If a person with no car can subsidize a long-term rental by spending their after-work hours being a Lyft driver, perhaps arranging to leave work slightly early to help with the after-work rush, that could be a huge benefit to a lot of low-income individuals and families.

It could also be a benefit to families with one car. If one partner uses the car to commute and the other can subsidize a rental, that could provide opportunities to earn something which might otherwise not exist (not every location is amenable to public transportation or cycling).

There are certainly some potential problems with this model. But looking through the eyes of an under-privileged family, I can see this being a huge opportunity too. I just hope the pay rate and the negotiated rental rate and fuel rate are enough to make more than a pittance at the end of the day.

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