Tesla Motors Livestream

http://www.teslamotors.com/livestream/

by dmmalam • 11 years ago

73 82 11 years ago

astrocat2• 11 years ago

It'll be interesting to see how this is pitched and what it's price point is... I'm still not convinced that energy arbitrage is profitable enough for individual homes given the current cost of the storage.

obstinate• 11 years ago

I'm curious if they'll be indemnifying homeowners for fires originating in the battery pack.

Anyway, if it can clearly save me money and is not incredibly expensive up-front, I'll likely get one. Even if you actively conserve, electricity is decently expensive over the long run.

NeutronBoy• 11 years ago

I'm curious if they'll be indemnifying homeowners for fires originating in the battery pack.

Why would they? I would have thought it's no different from any other household appliance.

TheSpiceIsLife• 11 years ago

Presumably they're using a stable form of lithium ion battery, does anyone know? Maybe something similar to A123 Systems' lithium iron phosphate?

hyperbovine2• 11 years ago

In the same way that very few people buy a $100,000+ Model S to save money on gas, early adopters of this product will be people who are a) well off and b) find the idea of converting their home to 100% renewable electricity appealing.

astrocat2• 11 years ago

I certainly don't doubt there will some, but a battery stuck in the wall of your house isn't nearly as sexy and show-off-able as a sporty car.

ridgeguy• 11 years ago

It might be. The significant return to individuals should come when they can participate in "ancillary services". These are classes of power contribution or absorption that meet short-term, urgent grid management needs.

For one example among many: if grid frequency drops below its nominal 60Hz, that indicates electricity demand exceeds supply, and the kilotons of spinning iron and copper in the generators that supply the grid are slowing down as they contribute rotational kinetic energy to meet demand. Grid management options for this type of demand/supply mismatch include calling for increased output from generators that aren't already at their max, engaging idle-output (but phase synchronized) spinning reserve generators, and buying power from contiguous grids.

Power sold under these circumstances can be priced at large multiples of base rates (like net metering rates) because of its high value in stabilizing the grid.

Smart grid infrastructure (communications, controllers, bidirectional inverters, etc) will allow grid managers (or localized intelligent algorithms) to draw on residential energy storage for ancillary services. These services should bring residential participants much higher returns than existing simple and not very lucrative net metering schedules. However, I imagine there will be significant legal combat before resident owners of distributed storage are allowed to recover market rates for their ancillary service contributions.

c1sc0• 11 years ago

We have a fairly large 100% electric home built in 1980 (after the oil crisis government promised "all's going to be nuclear & cheap real soon now") ... don't underestimate the electricity & heatings costs on large properties

bitcrusher• 11 years ago

It really depends on where you live. In places like Arizona, this unit could pay for itself in a matter of a few years. Even if it is only used as a load shifter, it could generate great savings during the summer/hot months.

tdaltonc2• 11 years ago

Did USAToday break their embargo?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/04/30/tesla-st...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/04/30/tesl...

chralieboy• 11 years ago

Doesn't look like it since they don't quote anyone at Tesla officially.

This early line especially:

"Tesla was expected to discuss its plans at an event in Hawthorne, Calif., near Los Angeles, late Thursday."

TD-Linux• 11 years ago

Flash player for a live stream, in 2015?

bhauer2• 11 years ago

Living in Hawthorne, I really should be there in person, but here I am watching it in a low-definition Flash stream. So be it. Just quarantine it in a VM in the same way you would iTunes or any other quasi-malicious software.

hayksaakian• 11 years ago

provide a mobile User Agent and it will serve a flash stream.

Why this isn't the default, I have no idea.

maxhaot• 11 years ago

Unfortunately there's still no stable/scalable way to deliver a livestream using HTML5 in chrome. Video on demand yes - live video no. We do it in Safari via HLS. Max (Livestream CEO).

martin_2• 11 years ago

Am I hitting a bug, or is it really 35 minutes in, and still on intro music?

grecy4• 11 years ago

Same for me... I'm wondering too.. ?

kumarm• 11 years ago

Seeing the same thing.

kenrikm2• 11 years ago

I'm thinking Elon is late to his own party.

martin_2• 11 years ago

I wonder if his battery died?

bhauer2• 11 years ago

At least the thumping techno beat keeps repeating.

NathanKP• 11 years ago

They should give those journalists some glowsticks and some MDMA to go with the music.

chambo622• 11 years ago

These #royaltyfree #bangers really have me hooked

vogt• 11 years ago

What if this, coupled with that large display wall IS the event?

kenrikm2• 11 years ago

Twitter is lighting up with bored people complaining about the music. https://twitter.com/search?q=elon&src=typd

__david__• 11 years ago

It's no bug. I'm sitting here at the event, reading Hacker News because nothing is happening yet.

grecy4• 11 years ago

Any word on why not?

rackninja• 11 years ago

They are obviously waiting for the end of the spurs/clippers game

bwha• 11 years ago

You'd think with this kind of wait someone would have thought to prepare more than 3 minutes of music.

meritt• 11 years ago

So I'm guessing it's not a watch since they can't fucking tell time.

cagenut• 11 years ago

The details are up on the site: http://www.teslamotors.com/presskit/teslaenergy

   The Powerwall is available in 10kWh, optimized for backup
 applications or 7kWh optimized for daily use applications. 
  Both can be connected with solar or grid and both can provide 
  backup power. The 10kWh Powerwall is optimized to provide 
  backup when the grid goes down, providing power for your home 
  when you need it most. When paired with solar power, the 7kWh 
  Powerwall can be used in daily cycling to extend the 
  environmental and cost benefits of solar into the night when 
  sunlight is unavailable.

  Tesla’s selling price to installers is $3500 for 10kWh and 
  $3000 for 7kWh. (Price excludes inverter and installation.)

Deliveries begin in late Summer.

edvinbesic2• 11 years ago

Does anyone have any experience with the pricing here and could elaborate a bit wether or not this is a good deal? This does seem enticing at first glance, but I am unfamiliar with any hidden costs there might be in going with a solar + backup system such as this.

cbo1002• 11 years ago

$3,000 for 7kwh and $3,500 for 10, both sound unbelievable to me. My first thought is there's a missing zero on the end.

Recently had a quote in Australia for >$AUD12,000 for a 5kwh battery set.

This is going to change everything to do with solar installations I think. Currently battery packs are a rarely taken up optional component.

pimlottc• 11 years ago

The details are up on the site: http://www.teslamotors.com/presskit/teslaenergy

I'm just seeing the normal Tesla homepage. Did they take it down to avoid stealing the thunder from the livestream?

EDIT: Back up now

Alupis• 11 years ago

http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

http://www.teslaenergy.com/

jws2• 11 years ago

Meanwhile, in lead acid battery land, a Trojan T-105 is ~$150 for a 6 volt, 225 amp hour battery, which you might comfortably cycle 0.9kWh each day for 5+ years. Use 12 of them to match the 10kWh Powerwall and it only costs $1800, replace them at the end of 5 years and you have about the same cost as the 10 year Powerwall. Powerwall is several times smaller and lighter and presumably doesn't give off hydrogen gas when you charge it or burst and flood your room with sulphuric acid if you get to freezing temperatures with a discharged battery bank (done that), so there are certainly plusses.

It just isn't the silver bullet I was hoping for. I've been putting off replacing my batteries in a cabin while I wait for this, I suppose I'll nurse them through the Summer and make a decision in the Fall.

Turbo_hedgehog2• 11 years ago

You need 20, not 12, don't you? 6V*20 = 120V

edit: the Powerwall runs at 350-450V, 5 amps nominal. Guess it depends on the inverter you use.

kbenson2• 11 years ago

I guess the question is how long the powerwall is expected to last, and how novel the linking of them is (I have no idea). Additionally, we can hope that once the gigafactory is up and running, or version 2 of it is, that prices drop.

Really, I think the big advancement here is attractive packaging of the product and experience, a la Apple.

aptwebapps• 11 years ago

I assume the Powerwall includes an inverter, what do they run?

X-TraxxX• 11 years ago

At $150 a battery its a pretty good deal. There is a guy here in Ontario Canada that sells them for that price as well. His site is http://cartguy.ca/ ( E-mail: sales@cartguy.ca

Toll free: 1-888-905-2278

Our Location: 2933 Hwy 35 S, Lindsay, On K9V 4R4

Our Mailing address: 2 Peel St, Lindsay, On K9V 3L7)

He also has the Trojan T-105RE for $199 a piece.

Not sure if the advantage of the T-105RE is worth it.

sergiotapia2• 11 years ago

For context, how much does a typical household use? Assume a central A/C, 4 tv's, fridge, washing machine, etc.

teraflop3• 11 years ago

According to the EPA [1], an average home consumed 12,069kWh in 2012. So assuming a constant load, a 10kWh battery would power about 7.5 hours of usage.

[1] http://www.epa.gov/greenpower/pubs/calcmeth.htm

hobarrera• 11 years ago

4 tv's

Some funny definition of "typical household". The maximum I've seen in recent years is one TV per household, and the average way beneath that.

simonebrunozzi• 11 years ago

At least we know that the product will be called Powerwall.

On a side note, there might be a reason why MOST live streaming event start late - it provides a sense of scarcity and drives more views. I am not saying that it is happening in this particular case, but I know for a fact that it is a technique sometimes used/tested by professionals; I don't know how often though.

chetanahuja• 11 years ago

Serious question: Can anybody who's familiar with the energy storage field explain the nature and magnitude of the innovation here. Is this just a large lithium ion battery with some electronics added for charge/discharge control or is it a bigger deal than that? Perhaps the innovation is in packaging and productizing it for the various market segments?

marze• 11 years ago

The innovation is all in the price.

stmfreak• 11 years ago

And the marketing.

spectrum12342• 11 years ago

"Can anybody who's familiar with the energy storage field explain the nature and magnitude of the innovation here."

-Not me but clearly this is v1.0 and likely v3.0 is where you will have huge impacts. Similar to a Tesla costing 35k for their v3.0. The giga factory will probably play an even bigger part here as batteries should scale better than cars. So battery v3.0 should be >>> than electric car v3.0.

tdaltonc2• 11 years ago

I think that the driver behind this is to create synergy across tesla and Solar City. Solar City gets requests for storage, and the financing to distribute it, and the giga-factory has a lot of surplus production.

eatmyshorts• 11 years ago

The production of wind and solar energy for the consumer is quickly approaching (or, depending on your tax regime, has already passed) the cost of traditional energy from the grid. This is great, and we're starting to see wind and solar become major forms of energy production. The problem with both forms of energy is that the energy generally is not generated when it is consumed, so it must be stored.

The problem with storing electricity is it is expensive. The cost of this lithium-based solution finally is cost-competitive with lead-acid. Basically, when the Tesla's Gigafactory is completed (their battery factory, being built near Reno, and expected to be finished in 2017) means that Tesla will be the lowest-cost provider of lithium batteries. Unfortunately, the size of the factory also means that they will have enormous excess capacity. Unless that capacity is utilized, their costs will eat away at their revenues.

This is their answer to this situation: they have excess battery capacity, and costs that are about 1/2 that of their nearest competitor, and there is a growing need for energy storage.

The real target of this announcement, if you ask me, is ERCOT, the regulatory body governing the Texas power grid. In general, Texas has enough power generation capacity for average load days. Unfortunately, they are running out of power plants for peak power days. Traditionally, these were natural gas-fired generators, while "normal" load was handled by hydroelectric, coal, and nuclear (because natural gas used to be more expensive than the others, and also because natural gas generators can be turned on and off over the course of minutes instead of hours or days, like the others). However, as natural gas prices have dropped, most of these power plants that used to be used for reserve power have been reallocated towards baseline power--this is why Texas has enough baseline power generation capacity, but not enough peak power capacity. ERCOT released a study late last year that indicated that it would be cost effective for ERCOT to deploy regional battery storage devices instead of building new power plants to handle these peak power periods. According to financial estimates, ERCOT's power demands will result in >$4 billion/year in revenue for Tesla. Basically, it would appear that Tesla might end up making more revenue selling these solutions to power companies than they can selling cars to consumers.

All of this will lead to economies of scale, further driving down Tesla's costs and entrenching their position as the lowest-cost provider of battery storage. All of this also means that this battery becomes an attractive device for home use, as well. Basically, this is what a lot of people are thinking about when they talk about a "smart grid" that can push power back on the grid during peak demand times.

Here's a couple of articles about the ERCOT annoucement: http://www.texastribune.org/2014/12/15/state-law-could-short... http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060008712

frakkingcylons• 11 years ago

A notable beta user from the press kit:

AWS will be running a 4.8 megawatt hour pilot program with Tesla's batteries in the us-west-1 AZ (Northern California).

chrisjlee• 11 years ago

"Fundamental change on how the world works"

b409ba0801cd21• 11 years ago

Is anyone else having the video stop with a buffering spinner and little or no network activity a few seconds after starting the stream?

EDIT: I ended up working around it by switching between the two lowest quality settings each time the stream hung. Disabling Adblock Plus on the page and adding Flashblock exceptions had no effect.

melted• 11 years ago

Holy shit TSLA is going to go through the roof tomorrow.

xsmasher• 11 years ago

Tesla and Musk have been teasing the contents of the announcement all week; everyone knew what it would be, but not the specs/price.

I don't think the stock will be blow up again until we see sales and profit numbers for these new products.

mami• 11 years ago

*yap

etlipman• 11 years ago

Not the only one - where was the tweet explaining his lateness? In the mean time https://twitter.com/stphn_lacey/status/593750480834195456

Adaptive• 11 years ago

Musk's delivery style is so refreshing compared to the Steve Jobs clones on every stage. He's knowledgeable, charming, funny. Great stuff.

wiggumz• 11 years ago

I've watched maybe 7 videos about him. Musk is too eager to throw employees under the bus.

It is this reason alone why I'd never buy a tesla.

mdekkers• 11 years ago

can you explain/elaborate?

grecy4• 11 years ago

Pretty cool that it's "Gigafactory 1"

And they're viewing it as another product.

Cshelton• 11 years ago

So. COOL! The coolest part...that Tesla realizes that the goal it wants to accomplish can not be done alone. They need companies and people around the world. All patents are open and free for anybody to use and all technology is open source. That is amazing. That's how change happens!

spectrum12342• 11 years ago

can someone explain how the open sourcing he mentions will benefit Tesla? typically open sourcing is only best when you are a platform as a service. I'm not seeing that - what am I missing?

nightski• 11 years ago

Living in the north that -4 degree F lower operating temp limit makes me sad. Sure you could put it in a heated garage - but I bet this explains why no one up here owns a Tesla vehicle yet.

grecy4• 11 years ago

put it on the inside of your house. It looks like art and doesn't take up much space.

Up here in the Yukon everyone has their batteries inside, else they'd freeze.

GigabyteCoin• 11 years ago

Is there going to be a download available of the livestream? I'd love to have watched it, but it kept cutting out after about 15 seconds for me even on the lowest quality.

SeoxyS• 11 years ago

"Powerwall comes in 10 kWh weekly cycle and 7 kWh daily cycle models."

Can somebody explain what "weekly cycle" vs. "daily cycle" means in this context?

prouticus• 11 years ago

Best info I've found so far: http://gizmodo.com/how-teslas-powerwall-stacks-up-to-other-e...

Tesla Motors Livestream

Related Stories