37signals Launches Haystack for Web Designers and Clients To Find Each Other

http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1976-launch-haystack-a-better-way-for-web-designers-to-find-clients-and-for-clients-to-find-web-designers

by tptacek • 17 years ago

134 66 17 years ago

37signals.com

jmtame2• 17 years ago

have always wanted to build something like this

redorb• 17 years ago

yeah I even registered aHayStack.com and some other domain names - I don't think it would work as good for anyone with less "web design equity" as 37signals.

jmtame2• 17 years ago

this would have made for a great yc company.. maybe jobspice can branch out into this niche space a bit

sant0sk1• 17 years ago

Too bad it doesn't also target web developers.

adamhowell4• 17 years ago

Seems like a market opportunity to me. How would a developer best pimp their wares?

Screenshots of sites they programmed wouldn't be as useful as they are for designers. Clients wouldn't understand code snippets...

sachinag3• 17 years ago

A developer pimps his wares by 1) still having a portfolio of sites they've worked on, 2) being able to have a reasonable conversation, and 3) being competitive on price.

You have no idea how goddamn hard it is to find developers - they're generally terrible at any semblence of marketing. And I say this as someone who spent over $100,000 on a web development firm for my startup before I was able to recruit an internal team. Everyone knows about Pivotal Labs, but after that, it's all-but-impossible to know where to look.

tocomment2• 17 years ago

Can web programmers get in on this? What do I put for a picture if I mostly do back-end work?

dhh7• 17 years ago

It's not designed for people who just do back-end work. If you're a shop that does both front- and back-end work, then you're more than welcome to join though!

brown9-2• 17 years ago

You might want to check out Stack Overflow Careers.

dhh7• 17 years ago

We originally wanted to do this for web developers, but we didn't find it to be very useful without the visual component.

With web design, you can very quickly scroll through a lot of portfolios and find a style you like. That wouldn't work at all with web developers and backend code.

We're going to be launching the index page shortly and it'll become even clearer why this form only works for visual works.

grinich• 17 years ago

How are you doing the image generation for the "portfolio" shots? Via submitted images or urls or something else?

dhh7• 17 years ago

People upload their own images. We just resize them.

adamhowell4• 17 years ago

What's the plan for preventing the uploading of other people's work?

dhh7• 17 years ago

If you see your work uploaded under someone else's account, you can write support for Haystack and we'll investigate. Doubt it'll be a major problem.

sachinag3• 17 years ago

I'm not sure you need the visual component for developers - the hard part is getting a sense for what things cost, how long they take, and how people work.

Turns out those things are really hard to get a feeling for in isolation, but in comparisons, people are really good at it. I know I want an iPhone app; I come across http://www.flingmedia.com/, and the contact us form gives me his rates. Then you try to see if Brian's rates are valid; the pricing itself gives a marker of credibility. If Brian's rates are in line with what I see elsewhere, and his portfolio seems directionally suggestive enough that he can build what he says he can build, at the very least, I'm going to contact him. The conversation with Brian will tell me, as a client, if he'd be good to work with. Sure, it takes more work - you can't make judgments based so heavily on portfolios - but I really think Haystack would be really helpful to both clients and developers. (So, please, add developers!)

Semi-related, I'll bet you a dollar that people will be looking for local designers before they look at portfolios (rather than starting with portfolios) because you give them that option. For developers, I bet they'd do the same. You'll be able to track that relatively easily.

arnorhs2• 17 years ago

Yeah, you're right, but you can probably also agree that honing in a certain market segment (graphics designers) is a better idea / opportunity than to go into competition with other typical job-related bulletin boards...

dcurtis• 17 years ago

Just curious: why do you think people care about geography more than skill?

bootload• 17 years ago

"... matching designer’s work so they can hone in visually: ..."

Interesting to see the contrast b/w 'visual' search to search by 'algorythm'. Less work involved, product gets out quicker and works. Will the machine, the algorythm make selection better (easier for users). I'm thinking of Demand in particular ~ http://stephenlaughlin.posterous.com/demand-media-uses-algor...

matthewcford• 17 years ago

Well EY launched https://www.railsdevelopment.com/ - only Rails development specific.

ubernostrum• 17 years ago

And the overloading of the name continues...

(see http://haystacksearch.org/ for example)

sachinag3• 17 years ago

One piece of feedback: we've found that buyers don't think in ranges; they think in terms of budgets. If my budget is $10,000, I don't just want to see the $3K-$10K range; I'd want to see all the designers under $10K, so that I'd see the under $3K and the $3K-$10K group all at once.

EDIT: Second piece of feedback: you should add a "see other designers like this" on the page. For example, for http://haystack.com/company/161-right-sizer, there should be a link to see all other Chicago designers under $3K. (I got to this page by clicking on its card on the front page of the site.)

jasonfried• 17 years ago

Good ideas/feedback. Thanks for posting.

3pt14159• 17 years ago

Just thought I'd disagree with this one. No offense at all, but I'd rather see a range. Too many talentless design kids out there. I would rather be able to pre-filter by only looking at what someone else has paid good money for. Just me two pence.

ryanwaggoner• 17 years ago

At $99 / month for Pro accounts, I can see 37 signals making a small fortune off of this.

adamhowell4• 17 years ago

They've already reached the 1,000 pre-signups and have at least 20+ pro accounts. They made a (very) small fortune in less than 5 hours.

If they can give designers a decent return and keep clients coming back... wow.

tjogin6• 17 years ago

It didn't require a super-unique idea that needed to be rushed to market before the window of opportunity closed, either. Just another common idea, executed well. (Ok, so they're not quite there yet.)

tjogin6• 17 years ago

If they make a small fortune from this, it'll be because the having the pro account brings a lot more than $99 to the designer; i.e. because of the value of the service provided, not the cost of signing up.

Because if the service doesn't bring the value, nobody is going to continue to pay for it in the long run.

Tichy• 17 years ago

A better filter than just "Other Cities" would be nice.

larrykubin• 17 years ago

I'm surprised that "Austin" isn't on the list of cities.

dhh7• 17 years ago

Agree. We're working on that. Stay tuned.

arnorhs2• 17 years ago

Yes and what about other countries?

fjabre• 17 years ago

Here's another feature I'd like to see: Availability.

This is the most frustrating thing about any designer I've ever contacted or worked with.. Half the time their plates are so full that you can't get a slot.. I'd like to know that in advance so I have a better idea of wait time..

harpastum2• 17 years ago

As much as that sounds really useful, I think it steps outside the bounds of what Haystack is for. Haystack has no interest in keeping track of specific projects, billing etc.

Haystack IMHO is just a card catalog — a painless way to get a basic idea of a designer's work. No more, no less.

joshwa• 17 years ago

Behance.net has a feature like that:

  Status:

  (x) On Fire
  ( ) Busy
  ( ) Available
  ( ) Bored

nfriedly• 17 years ago

I'm almost always in a position where I could say I'm too busy to work on something. I like it because the jobs that I really want to do, I'll find the time to do. But for the ones I don't want to do, I can either say I'm too busy or else bid 4x my normal rate. If they want me for 4x, I'll make the time.

jsdalton• 17 years ago

Cool.

For comparison's sake, this is very similar to another website that's been around for a few years, Carbonmade (http://carbonmade.com). Carbonmade is a bit broader than just web design, but it's likewise beautifully designed and it's also a lot cheaper ($12/month for a pro account).

I don't mean to take away anything from this particular announcement or product, but I think it's useful to consider existing products as well in the contexts of discussions like this one.

(FWIW I have no affiliation whatsoever with Carbonmade.)

adamhowell4• 17 years ago

I couldn't find a way to filter by location or budget w/ Carbonmade, though, just expertise and skill.

Haystack seems more focused on clients while Carbonmade is more focused on helping designers manage their portfolio quickly and easily.

pkaler• 17 years ago

A rising tide raises all ships. I think this announcement is great for Carbonmade.

For example, I heard of online invoicing when I came across Freshbooks. However, I did some research and went with Harvest.

I think people will see Haystack, see the value proposition, do some research, and then Google search and come across Carbonmade.

I think Haystack will be successful. And I think that will make Carbonmade more successful, too. Haystack legitimizes the market.

ironkeith• 17 years ago

I'm curious as to how they picked the list of cities. By population?

dhh7• 17 years ago

Initially, yes. We picked the top cities by population in the US. We're going to change that shortly, though, so it's based on the number of firms in those cities. That way London or Berlin or Tokyo or whatever can bubble up on the list if there's a large number of firms listing from there.

RyanMcGreal• 17 years ago

>What does your work looks like?

And did you proofread it?

ansonparker2• 17 years ago

I must admit I can't help feel a little cynical about this project.

If an unknown company had launched this website I doubt it would have made anyone's radar, let alone have found a willing group of companies to pay $100/month. If it only works because 37 Signals made it and promoted it (as opposed to being an elegant solution to a problem) is it not a little exploitative?

Haystack's simplicity comes from a dearth of functionality and a small number of users -- neither of these are sustainable in the medium-term for the project to remain viable in its market (which, despite 37 Signal's claims, is pretty well serviced).

They risk damaging their brand by creating a feature-light product that doesn't exhibit any capability to grow beyond a small number of portfolios. They could well find an increasingly dissatisfied group of customers demanding features and results for their $100/month. It will be interesting to see how they keep these people happy while continuing to look after their other interests.

cmac• 17 years ago

> If an unknown company had launched this website I doubt it would have made anyone's radar

I think that's one of the perks of becoming successful ;) The app rides on the fame that comes with Basecamp's success and there's nothing wrong with that!

I agree, though, that US$99 is quite pricey considering that you'll still be a needle in a haystack (albeit a smaller haystack). If I paid that rate, I'd want more tools for my profile of clients to narrow down on me.

tjogin6• 17 years ago

Assuming your exposure on Haystack brought you business worth substantially more than $99 a month, why ought you be in a position to demand anything at all?

tjogin6• 17 years ago

If you're dissatisfied with the service, why just not stop paying for it? Isn't that so much easier than getting all upset and demanding things?

ansonparker2• 17 years ago

Sure, take your ball and go home.

I'm not dissatisfied, just seems like a slightly opportunistic project that has backlash potential.

dhh7• 17 years ago

Compared to our jobs board, Haystack is actually overflowing with features. The jobs board has been around for two years, made over a million dollars in revenue, and continues to do very well.

People will pay for Haystack if it works for them. Just like people have paid and continue to pay for the 37signals job board. Both applications work because we have a very targeted audience that's a perfect fit for them.

This is in part what we mean by "Build An Audience". We've spent 10 years doing that at 37signals.

tiffani• 17 years ago

Will there eventually be a way to separate out folks who just do design (static pages, etc.) vs. folks who've designed actual web apps? Maybe tags or something would help.

37signals Launches Haystack for Web Designers and Clients To Find Each Other

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