Ask HN: How do you politely refuse to disclose previous salary information?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8914213

by salarynegging • 12 years ago

25 31 12 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

In a recent interview, I was asked both how much I made at my last job and what my living costs were. I know not to respond to these things, but this was on a third interview after the interviewer had previously mentioned a couple times that the employees of this company don't care about how much money they get paid.

I ended up revealing both of these things because I felt like I would seem greedy if I didn't. I know this is irrational, but I couldn't think of a clever or polite way to move past the issue.

Does anyone have any advice for handling this type of situation?

coreyp_1• 12 years ago

"I appreciate the question, but I do not feel that my previous salary nor my living expenses impact my ability to perform my duties at this company. Now, what do you feel that this position is worth to this company?"

ChicagoDave• 12 years ago

You say, "It's my assumption you have a range of pay you're willing to pay for this position. I'm very interested in working here so this isn't _all_ about the money, but I know what I'm worth and I'd like you to make an offer to see if we're on the same page."

So this assumes:

1. You researched the company, the position, and maybe know other people in the company and roughly what they make. 2. You researched your skillset, your experience, and have a rough idea of what you're worth. 3. You've adjusted for location, whether you're FT or contractor, medical, dental, time off, holidays, any bonus structure, and stock (not options!). 4. You're not making an emotional decision because you're not happy in your current position or unemployed and desperate (HR folk will eat you for lunch).

Be prepared, do your homework, and be confident about your value to the company and be firm about it.

The bottom-line, never give them any salary information. This is like going to a car dealer and saying, "I'll pay whatever you want and take nothing on my trade."

But always always be polite, deferential, and calm.

trcollinson2• 12 years ago

I've never been asked what my living expenses are. I would have been flustered by that question as well, honestly, since it's not up to a company to try to somehow match my living expenses with their pay (unless you live in Japan as a salaryman, of course. patio11 wrote a very enlightening article about that, well worth a read to see the difference in cultures).

Anyway, to answer the question. I have been asked many times what my salary was at my last company. I often reply with simply what I want and a range I will accept. "I received a number of raises and bonuses but I was at about $x. I will accept a range from you of $x to $x + y-k, depending on your benefits." I find the confidence wins over 9 out of 10 times. Additionally, I always have this conversation very early on. At this point I will ask in an initial conversation if we are on the same salary page, "Your company sounds interesting but because I am a <Senior, or whatever> level engineer I want to make sure we are on the same compensation page. I am currently at $x and I am looking for $x - $x + yk to move. What are you looking to pay for someone with my skill set?"

Edit: I see someone really disagrees with certain viewpoints on this question. Would the down-voter like to share why they are down-voting?

pjungwir• 12 years ago

I didn't downvote, but your formulas don't make any sense. What is y? What is k? Why are they multiplied together (or subtracted?)? Isn't x - x + yk simply yk?

Also more substantively, if you are already making $x, why would you volunteer that you'll accept $x to move?

trcollinson2• 12 years ago

I see I should be clearer on that formula, you are absolutely right. What I meant was a range of $x to $x + $y(thousand) more. Such that I would take $100,000 to $110,000 depending on other factors such as benefits.

I also should have been clearer in stating that I generally will pick the initial "$x" value of the range by deciding what I want. However, if asked, I will often state this is where I am at my current position, even if it is not my actual salary. I do not often share what my actual salary is.

bbcbasic• 12 years ago

Tell them you earn $300k and have a $3M mortgage, and another offer.

Edit: Seriously though tell them it is none of their business and they should make an offer. If pushed then give them an amount that is at the very top end of your expectation. So if you are happy with $100k and wow for $120k then say you earning $140k and this just about covers your cost of living. If they ask how on earth you need $140k to live tell them that it is "for family reasons" and leave it at that.

If you already have given the number, just tell them you are finishing up an interview this week with another company. Then tell them you had an offer for $X. Then see if they increase their offer.

mode80• 12 years ago

Can I suggest a different approach? Instead of dodging the question, put yourself in a position that you're happy to answer. "My last contract gig paid $100/hr. That's $200k yearly on an annual basis."

hga2• 12 years ago

Nick Corcodilos of Ask the Headhunter has good things to say about this, along with a lot of other stellar advice: http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/

jqm• 12 years ago

Nick should headhunt someone to fix that site up a bit. Awful.

hga2• 12 years ago

Yeah, it is. On the other hand, visitors who really need what he's saying will wade through it.

chrisbennet• 12 years ago

"In a recent interview, I was asked both how much I made at my last job and what my living costs were. I know not to respond to these things, but this was on a third interview after the interviewer had previously mentioned a couple times that the employees of this company don't care about how much money they get paid."

Snarky responses:

"Are you trying to determine what is the most you can pay me without me feeling insulted?"

"I hear you bro. I probably feel the same way about money as the company founders. Unless of course, the founders are trying to make as little money as possible."

"That's great to hear. You should be able to pay me more with all the money the other employees didn't want."

lou2ser• 12 years ago

At this point in my career I start all head-hunter conversations with "I work 100% remote as a W2 employee (not contractor) with full benefits. I travel 1 - 2 weeks a year, work 40 hours a week, and make $x. If you can meet or beat that let's keep talking, otherwise thanks for your time."

It keeps the conversation short which is nice for both me and the recruiter. And if they have something interesting to say then I know it's worth my time.

wes-k2• 12 years ago

It's taken me a while to learn this direct, cut to the chase, approach when it comes to recruiters. Huge time saver!!

s0uthPaw88• 12 years ago

I use one of two responses depending on where in the interview process I am.

1) Early in the interview process I respond with: "I’m sure we’ll find a number that works for both of us, but for now, I want to make sure it’s a good fit."[1]

2) If it is during a final round or they are offering the job, I like to turn the question on the interviewer and ask: "What is the salary range you have in mind for this position?"

1. http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/17/on-refusing-to-dis...

jobposter1234• 12 years ago

Why are employers (generally) so inflexible with their salaried offers? I've been offered jobs where I really wanted to work, and they wanted me. They offered me 60% of my market value because that was all that was in the budget. If they had let me take Fridays off (for my own consulting work), I would have been fine with this, and they would have been ahead (paying 60% for 80% of my time).

It's such bullshit. Hiring sucks.

wes-k2• 12 years ago

You should also understand that the recruiter or hiring manager knows exactly why they ask that. It's not like it is a secret that answering it gives them an excuse to pay you less.

lerchmo• 12 years ago

It's a way to avoid offering more than the bare minimum it takes to get you to take the job.

aaron695• 12 years ago

How do you politely refuse to disclose previous salary information?

Say you're under a salary NDA?

Although this mightn't be the best answer to the question, answering with a figure, made up or not, might help you in some way.

Living costs

Well this is none of there business and is a signal of sorts. But that said it's an intriguing question if they are not in the 'stay far away' category.

Firstly the interviewer might just be a nerd with bad people skills/inexperience in interviewing (Assuming you're in IT)

Secondly maybe the company is very serious about work life balance rather than hard cash.

I'd be asking why they want to know living costs and why as an employee it's important for them to know. Then politely declining or continuing depending on how you feel after a conversation.

But this is an out there question you can't prepare for, next time it'll be something else weird. Everything is easy in hindsight.

The salary question is more common.

sjs382• 12 years ago

> "the employees of this company don't care about how much money they get paid"

More for you, then!

Seriously though, that's always an uncomfortable question when it comes up.

Before accepting my current job, I was interviewing at another place. When asked, I kept my current salary private and was honest about my reasons: "I'd rather not disclose that, because it puts me in a bad situation when it comes to salary negotiation."

They responded with something along the lines of "Once an offer goes out, we don't negotiate beyond that. We try to pay employees what they're worth and we think we do a very good job of making that evaluation before hiring into our team."

Note that what they said seems like they gave me an incentive to offer a number. But read a little more closely and note that this really isn't the case.

I reminded the HR rep that the job listing had a salary range posted, and if any offer was outside of the "very high end" of the range, then I would likely to decline. Once a company makes a decision to hire you, they want you. If they aren't willing to negotiate a salary beyond an initial offer, then good luck negotiating a raise.

In my case, I had 2 more interviews (one via phone, one in person) before I decided that the company wasn't a good fit.

hackerboos• 12 years ago

I did one more than that. I lied.

I'm not saying that this works all the time or that it's ethical, but sometimes it can result in a significant pay rise.

debacle• 12 years ago

It's not really any less ethical than trying to strongarm a potential new hire into a salary 10-15k lower than it would have been otherwise, especially when they're likely creating hundreds of thousands in value annually for the company.

jghn• 12 years ago

I've seen the living cost question a few times today here on HN, and I've never seen that before. Is this a thing these days or is it specific to the startup culture perhaps?

phamilton• 12 years ago

I awkwardly said "I would prefer not to disclose that."

I later (after I joined) asked the recruiter about it and she told me that sent a message to her that I was either overpaid or underpaid. The offer (after some negotiation) came in 20k higher than my previous salary.

canvia• 12 years ago

Are most of their employees younger?

"Disclosing that information could only result in neutral or negative outcomes for me. It is not logical for me to behave in such a manner. Do you generally hire people that make illogical decisions?"

If they're asking you for detailed salary information like that the answer to the above question is going to be yes regardless of what they say. Don't accept that kind of abuse of information asymmetry. If they behave that way during the hiring process, imagine how they will behave once you have committed to the job. Find a better place to work IMO.

The government publishes transparent salary information for over 800 types of jobs, segmented by state. http://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm

TamDenholm• 12 years ago

One thing you should mention is that while salary isnt your only incentive, not enough salary is a massive disincentive. You may not be taking the job for the money, of course you're taking it because its an awesome company, with awesome people and you love the problem they're working on, however, no matter how amazing it is, if you dont get paid enough, its not worth it.

Its not their job to tell you how much you can live on, they can make an offer, which should ALWAYS be pushed back upon with a counter offer until you come to an arrangement. Also, golden rule in negotiation, is be prepared to walk away, otherwise, you lose.

As Phamilton says, just say "I'd prefer not to disclose that." and perhaps add, "I will take any offer under serious consideration."

gesman• 12 years ago

Tell "it's confidential according to the contract I've signed with my previous employer".

As a compromise - tell: "it's in the ballpark between A and B", where A was your actual salary and your desired salary is in between A and B.

marioluigi2• 12 years ago

I would rather not give a range. Anytime you give a range for a quote (even though this is not a quote, it kind of is), the person on the other side will go with the lower value, rendering your higher value meaningless.

devinmontgomery• 12 years ago

They want to set your old salary as the reference point for your new salary. If you're moving laterally, this isn't awful, but it is if you're looking to move up.

A better anchor (both closer to market and better for you) is to research the median salaries for that type of position in the area. Many job sites (I most recently used Glassdoor for this) give these numbers. It's not perfect, but it's a better starting point.

The actual words I would use are "Well, the median salary for [position] in [City] is $[dollars]. I'm looking for something that pays somewhere in that ballpark." If there are reasons you think you should be paid more than the median (you're very well qualified, the company tends to pay above median, etc), I would wait until after the offer is made, when you're in a stronger position.

marioluigi2• 12 years ago

A simple "Sorry - I cannot disclose due to contract signed" should fix the issue. There isn't much the company or recruiter can say beyond this.

Think of a salary negotiation as an Enterprise Sale. Always force the other side to offer a number first and try and try and delay this until they see value in your service (i.e. after the interviews)

helen842000• 12 years ago

There's no need to offer a huge explanation straight away. Just say 'oh I'm looking for $X' and smile. Most of the time people don't push it further.

If they ask for more info, just repeat & say 'well I'd like it to be noted that for this position I'd be looking for $x'

It can feel really awkward but remember it's equally awkward for the person asking your salary. Try & keep it light hearted with short answers, you only only have to be slightly more persistent than they are to keep the number secret.

Ask HN: How do you politely refuse to disclose previous salary information?

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