Jolla Tablet

http://jolla.com/tablet

by dezgeg • 12 years ago

243 113 12 years ago

jolla.com

Nr7• 12 years ago

Here's the link for their Indiegogo page: http://igg.me/at/jolla-tablet

iamtew2• 12 years ago

Their crowdsourcing campaign is doing quite good. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/jolla-tablet-world-s-firs...

Personally though I'm a bit disappointed that they went the crowdfundign way on this. They didn't have any problems selling their mobile phone, and it's doing quite good as far as I've seen.

Also I hope they do continue to produce it afterwards, but this item in the FAQ leaves me wondering:

Will the tablet be available also for general sale or only through Indiegogo?
If there is demand, we'll consider all options. In any case, the Indiegogo contributors will get the tablet first and with the lowest price at the time of delivery.

tormeh• 12 years ago

Is the phone really doing that well? It's not even available in the US and China.

pjmlp4• 12 years ago

I am yet to see any on the wild. Even Windows Phone has better sales.

maheart• 12 years ago

Windows Phone is backed by a $500B company. Jolla is a company started with ~$250M in funding.

blisterpeanuts3• 12 years ago

I wonder how many of the Windows Phone users are Microsoft employees or affiliates. After all they're still a big company, with 127K employees around the world.

tommy-mato• 12 years ago

I've seen Jolla before a couple of times. I know that it says it runs android apps, but is there an easy/user-friendly way to get _access_ to the android apps? or is it all just "download the apk from somewhere and install it".

If it can't stand alone it'll fall over in this market.

FlyingSnake• 12 years ago

Ignoring the Generic company marketing video, it looks promising.

Sailfish is an interesting OS, it has RPM package manager and looks like they've proprietary Android compatibility layer. It also uses Qt/QML for apps which is interesting.

The specs look good too when compared to the other rivals in the range[1]

https://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/1026232/files/...

Does anyone here use a Jolla device?

claudius• 12 years ago

Does anyone here use a Jolla device?

I’m still waiting for a high-end second generation version. From the various forums, there are/have been some minor bugs and I’m somewhat annoyed that they went for RPM instead of sticking to dpkg from the N9, but otherwise it seems a sensible approach to a mobile phone without the usual issues with Google/Apple.

szatkus2• 12 years ago

Still have some minor bugs. My Jolla just showed me the gesture tutorial o_O

toyg• 12 years ago

AFAIK, the switch to RPM happened when Nokia was still in the game, as part of their joint agreement with Intel that transformed Maemo into Meego (which is now Jolla). Intel's own "linux for phones" project was based on RPM; the idea was that Intel would have brought better OS internals, and Nokia would have provided a better UI, playing to the strengths of both projects.

By then the development of N9 was already at an advanced status, so it didn't switch to Intel-provided internals; the N9 is basically the last Maemo device, and everything Jolla did afterwards is the Meego we would have seen if not for Elop's self-sabotage.

iamtew2• 12 years ago

I've had mine now for a few months. Everything works great with it. The UI is smooth and the touch-only navigation feels very natural once you get in to it.

One downside is there is no way to monetize your apps from the Jolla appstore, I think this might be holding back a few people from making apps.

I'm also very happy on how easy it is to connect to the computer. Plug in the USB, and I can have it show up as an MTP device, or RNDIS. Using it as RNDIS I can just login to it via ssh and run any commands like any other linux.

sharpneli• 12 years ago

By far the best developer phone out there.

Most importantly software development for it is pure joy compared to the cesspool that is Android development. Just copy a binary to the device and it runs. No need to mess around with APK's and manifests and whatnot. Perfect for just trying things out.

ch_1232• 12 years ago

I've had the Jolla phone since January. I'm very happy with the device - the UI is great, it runs Android apps well, has a full Linux environment. The phone itself also looks really smart (IMHO)

I had some brief issues with the phone spontaneously rebooting, which was solved by wedging a piece of paper at the back of the battery so it made a better connection with the contacts. Such are the joys of buying a first gen device I guess...

garretraziel3• 12 years ago

I have Jolla phone and I have mixed feelings about it. Sailfish OS is interesting - learning how to use it has steep learning curve (but once you get used to it, it's perhaps faster to do something with it than on any other phone). It is sometimes unreliable (my Jolla randomly shuts down, sometimes several times in a row, see https://together.jolla.com/question/7144/jolla-randomly-shut...). There are other quirks here and there, guys from Jolla are fixing them one after another, but I would say that Sailfish OS is still in beta state.

It is really developer friendly device. It has awesome SDK and it isn't trying to restrict you by any means. But even that, there are not really that many applications for Sailfish OS and only few of them are good. And there is literally no official client for anything and that brings problems - for example, several people were banned from WhatsApp for using Mitakuuluu (WhatsApp client for Sailfish OS). There isn't full-featured Facebook client, there isn't client for my bank account or for my operator. App for public transport for your country? Nope, it isn't there. Sure, you can use Android apps (not from Google Play though, you have to use Yandex store or Amazon store), but: 1) There are no Google Play Services - that means no integration with Google Account, no maps, no that pretty cool Google Inbox app, Google is moving a lot of things into Google Play Services, 2) there will be problems with any non-trivial app. Games are OK, but GPS tracking? Didn't work when app wasn't active (so you have to have screen on). Wanted to try Pressy? Doesn't work, it wants to access your Google account. Besides, if you are buying this device convicted that you will use Android apps on it, why not buy Android phone?

To end this comment with something positive, I could say that this is "OK" device. It is impressive that they are able to build this device with that small team. They are listening to community, they are updating their OS frequently. Besides some quirks, Sailfish OS is as good as any other mobile phone OS. It runs fast and it is based on Linux, Qt5 and even Wayland compositor. You can be more confident that you are not being watched (at least they say). Your inner geek will be pleased. But at the end of the day, you will look at other people phones, they are playing that new cool game, using that new cool app you always wanted to try, trying that new HN or Reddit client, using Google Inbox, using Instagram Hyperlapse, using their expensive gadgets, fitness trackers, using their phones to find how will they get home and your phone has just suddenly rebooted again.

sampo• 12 years ago

App for public transport for your country? Nope, it isn't there.

Except, of course, for Finland: https://openrepos.net/content/w01w13/reitti

eloisant2• 12 years ago

Can't you install Android apps on it?

niklasni1• 12 years ago

But if the only 3rd party apps I have installed on my Google-less, CyanogenMod'd Nexus are Firefox and VLC, there's a good chance I might like it?

lmedinas• 12 years ago

How do they archive the Android compatibility ? Have they used Dalvik ?

Also how is the performance of this compatibility layer ?

dagw5• 12 years ago

They use a proprietary Android compatibility layer, basically a clean room Dalvik re-implementation.

garretraziel3• 12 years ago

They are using product called "Alien Dalvik" (http://www.myriadgroup.com/products/device-solutions/mobile-...). And performance is not bad, you can play 3D games on it.

wvh2• 12 years ago

I have a Jolla phone. I ordered one during the pre-order period after my N9 suicide-dived out of my backpack and had an unlucky meeting with the floor.

Similar state as the N9: nice interface, some good UI ideas, semi-open Linux based OS, minimal applications available and not many features in the basic ones included with the OS. Battery life is similar to my N9, about 5-6 days – I'm not a phone junkie; I use the calendar, alarm and music player (about 1 hour of music per day), and email/browser in case of emergency; WLAN internet only, no automatic remote checking, no non-Jolla applications installed (so far).

I like the phone; it's stable and the basic functionality is there and that's all I really use. I prefer open-source and as free as possible systems, and I've been able to import/export data from the N9 and Jolla and make minor changes using their terminal applications as you can just access them as any other Linux system.

If you are a mainstream user wanting to install lots of mainstreams apps, are a spec junkie or want to have the latest and greatest gadget, Jolla probably shouldn't be your first choice. But if you like open-source and the freedom to actually do things with the system, I feel it is a good choice.

Plus, it's not another iOS or Android device... It's good there are alternative options.

quinndupont• 12 years ago

I don't see how the video is "generic": didn't you notice that the founder has only one full-sized arm? When was the last time that Samsung or Apple put differently-abled people in their ads? I think their ad is great for showing a refreshing diversity of people and (potential) interactions. There's a UX lesson in there too.

worldsayshi• 12 years ago

All this magical scrolling features is causing my browser to lag. I use chrome on OS X. Why use such fancy effects if it is ruined by bad performance?

wodenokoto• 12 years ago

I use chrome on osx on a 5 year old macbook pro (bottom of the line at purchase time) and the site ran perfectly smooth.

vishnugupta2• 12 years ago

Sigh, no 3G or LTS. This beautiful tablet is useless to me if it works only on Wifi; it really kills the "mobility" aspect of a tablet. I can't use the navigation which effectively renders the GPS useless.

Am I missing something here? Because I would love to have this tablet.

TuringTest• 12 years ago

If it's true that it can run Android apps, you can use an offline navigation application that uses OpenStreetMap data.

For example MapFactor Navigator provides turn-by-turn navigation and works reasonably well.

vishnugupta2• 12 years ago

Thanks for pointing out OSM.

I used navigation as an example. In general though I really don't get the idea of wifi-only table. I commute regularly and get most of my non-coding work done during that time; e-mail, responses, catching up on news and a whole bunch of things. Also when I'm out I carry my tablet around, just in case.

And I have a dumbish phone which I use for making/receiving calls :-)

Otik2• 12 years ago

I think Jolla has HERE maps as well, which would make sense given the history of the companies.

dagw5• 12 years ago

It has bluetooth so you can simply tether it to your phone.

jbk• 12 years ago

So it's very close to the Nokia N1 specs?

bananaoomarang• 12 years ago

Seems like this might be really fun to hack with (I would love a more open, vaguely nice mobile device), but I'm sceptical about the lack of a firm processor choice at that price... Even i it is an 'early adopter one'.

If I thought they weren't going to reach their goal I'd go for it, but doesn't look look like they'll have any issues there!

I liked a lot of the Jolla ideas on the phone too, hopefully this'll be great!

krcz• 12 years ago

I would love to see a low-spec laptop with detachable keyboard with some Linux desktop environment when the keyboard is connected, switching to Sailfish OS when used in tablet mode. If it had long battery life and had good support of additional screens (to avoid disasters when running presentations) it would be a perfect device for me.

shaneqful4• 12 years ago

I plan to use mine with an apple bluetooth keyboard I'd say you'll need some external device for screens though.

sgt101• 12 years ago

Nice, but LTE would make it a killer

shmerl3• 12 years ago

And also would inflate the price. I don't mind WiFi only. And in the worst case you can make a WiFi hotspot from your handset.

yitchelle• 12 years ago

“Jolla seeks to revive Nokia platform.”

I am confuse. Is this the Nokia N1 in a different guise?

otuutti• 12 years ago

No. Jolla is a bunch on ex- Nokia people who wanted to keep working on their then-current project.

Nokia allegedly started working on N1 when Microsoft deal went through.

seanmcdirmid• 12 years ago

I've heard the N1 is mostly Foxconn with some software (zlauncher) and industrial design from Nokia.

experimental-• 12 years ago

The Nokia platform would be that which we used to call Maemo in the past (currently Mer, behind Sailfish OS). Nokia no longer uses it.

ganzuul4• 12 years ago

This is likely referring to Qt. They use Wayland too, and these platform-ish things appear to be paving the way for Linux on the desktop.

Aoyagi• 12 years ago

I was interested in Jolla since the start, but the phones hardware was just... uninteresting. This looks nice though, at least for those with use for a tablet.

mercurial• 12 years ago

I'd be interested in a Jolla phablet (with stylus), but only as long as it wasn't made with dubious labour practices using coltan sourced from dodgy mines.

INTPenis• 12 years ago

I've had a Jolla phone for most of 2014 and I can say I'm not happy with it.

What drew me to it was the open source OS but it's very immature and needs a lot of work. It also needs a lot of new adopters to improve its ecosystem of apps.

The android compatibility is shaky at best and ruins the entire user interface experience of the sailfish OS.

The whole phone does not feel robust, not at all like the OnePlus for example which is my currently active phone, or the iPhone 4 that I previously used.

All this makes me very reluctant to purchase a Jolla tablet.

denegen• 12 years ago

I'm still using the Jolla phone and I think it's ok and it's getting better. Compared to Android phones its user interface is cleaner and doesn't come with preinstalled apps that I don't use.

ganzuul4• 12 years ago

Regarding preinstalled apps: My Nexus 7 did a lot of outright bitching when I first got it. I even had a bit of black tape over the front-facing camera for a while since Google's Byzantine privacy practices had made me genuinely not trust the device.

My Jolla is the opposite from this. On my Jolla, I am root.

shaneqful4• 12 years ago

Do you still use it on a regular basis. I got mine on the first day it released and admittedly back then there were some issues e.g. lack of 4g and some software instability but it has gotten better and more stable with every update.

I obviously stuck with it where you decided not too and I can understand why but I would urge you to give it a second chance.

rehemiau• 12 years ago

They need to make a high-end phone, a Z3 Compact competitor with a nice screen, camera, solid build + their backwards-compatible TOH v2 (faster data transfer) and then they'd be golden

Moving to a new UI size without resolving all phone-related problems? A bad idea IMHO

_pmf_2• 12 years ago

What an annoying site.

T-zex• 12 years ago

Yes, I've immediately lost interest in product.

commentzorro• 12 years ago

I agree. Am I getting so old that I just don't get it anymore? (Sigh, I guess I'll just get it out of the way now. That's not music that's noise. And slow down, where are you going that you have to get there so fast.)

_pmf_2• 12 years ago

Am I getting so old that I just don't get it anymore?

The blink tag was hip once, too, so I have some hope that these fads will pass when the so-called "user experience experts" move to greener pastures.

ehurrell• 12 years ago

Watching Jolla has been interesting, there seems to be a huge amount of potential in Sailfish, and though I have a friend who owns a Jolla phone and seems to be frustrated by it often I'm still interested in this.

It sort of reminds me of Android's G1, a phone I had an loved for the fact that I could make anything on it, even if it was rough around the edges. I look forward to seeing where they take this and how they smooth out issues.

plq• 12 years ago

I have a Jolla phone and I love it. I guess I'm among the luckier ones as my phone doesn't have any of the wiggly sim/battery problems. It's been very stable for me for the past 8 or so months I had it.

I love the battery life. Perhaps thanks to using Qt/C++ instead of a higher level language/framework, or perhaps thanks to me being social-medially-challenged, the standard 2200 mah battery takes me for a good chunk of 48 hours.

Yes, there aren't much apps for it, (there was a time when you could practically download the entire Jolla store to your phone) but almost all of the apps are open source. If you're craving for the latest episode of Brain Crush Saga, you're not in the target audience anyway.

There are also a couple of factors which make it a unique offering:

-It's not from Google, it's not from Apple, so I'm a bit more comfortable privacy-wise.

-The concept of "The Other Half". It's sort of a "hardware app" that you can use as the back cover of your phone. For example, there's a kickstarter for a The Other Half Keyboard running right now: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-o....

-No front-facing buttons! Huge success design-wise. Not gorgeous like the N9 (reportedly due to some patent issues), but still very eye-pleasing.

All in all, very cute device, but definitely not (yet) for everyone.

As for the tablet, I expect to be a lot more productive with it compared to the toys on the market now, especially thanks to it being an Intel-based device with a proper Linux distribution. And at ~200$ for this kind of device, to me it's a bargain.

The Indie GoGo page is buried far down the page, so here it is for your convenience: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/jolla-tablet-world-s-firs...

Keep up the amazing work, Jolla team, you are making a difference.

Disclaimer: No affiliation, just a happy customer.

stuaxo• 12 years ago

Wish I wasn't having those problems :/

ganzuul4• 12 years ago

After taking my battery and SIM card out and putting them back in a few times, those glitches no longer occur for me.

I get about 48h of light use though. Battery life used to be worse, but I was able to tell an indexing service to only run after boot and not during use. Might be updates overwrite user customizations, so I need to do it again.

After that update the phone refused to talk with Debian Wheezy and Windows 7 over USB but Ubuntu 14.4 LTS works just swimmingly now, and it's what I use on my desktop anyway. That update finally resolved an issue with the screen not wanting to unlock, and now it's smooth sailing.

I'm actually quite happy with the phone. I expected issues when I bought it and since I'm proficient with Linux I can solve them from the command line interface. The phone won't let me copy-paste from the GUI to the CLI; as per a bug report this functionality is pending robust sanity checking and security. The keyboard is very sensitive in just the right way and once I got used to the UI Android started to feel like a bygone era. I'm Finnish, and during the holidays I'll probably be expected to advise my relatives on whether or not they can upgrade their tablets to Jolla's new device.

Note that just yesterday Nokia announced a new Android tablet: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30096603 An odd coincidence?

(p.s. I had only just learned to use QtCreator for Symbian when the Microsoft deal was announced. Jolla relies on Qt, so getting started with Qt was in fact not a waste of time. I'm looking forward to learning functional C++14!)

jcfrei• 12 years ago

A friend of mine reported some issues as well and he suggested that a lot of those problems might simply come from oxidizing contacts, as mentioned in: https://together.jolla.com/question/7144/jolla-randomly-shut... I'd give it a shot.

mbel4• 12 years ago

battery takes me for a good chunk of 48 hours.

I'm actually quite surprised it's only 48 hours. My is keeping 3-4 days without charging. I have it configured to check 3 IMAP accunts and sync facebook, twitter & gmail once per hour, with a couple of most used apps running constantly. To be honest I never expected that I will be to find a phone that will stay charged for more than single day.

tempodox• 12 years ago

I think it would be good for all to have something like this. We need an alternative mobile platform that is not enslaved to one of the giant ecosystem producers with their respective Reality Distortion Fields.

Personally, I would like an OS that supports compilation to native code without having to polish every single bit manually (like Android forces you to do if you dare to use C instead of Java).

What I definitely don't need is Android by another name — for now, I just hope it will be better.

pjmlp4• 12 years ago

As of Android 5 everything is native, including Java.

EDIT: http://developer.android.com/about/versions/android-5.0-chan...

blisterpeanuts3• 12 years ago

Is there a technical reason why new devices don't support SDXC (high capacity sd cards)? Is it more expensive to implement, with licensing fees and whatnot? We have 64 and 128 gb cards nowadays, and 256 and higher are coming. Huge storage might be a compelling differentiater for a niche product like this one.

wvh2• 12 years ago

My Jolla phone has a Samsung Pro 64GB microSDXC card in it (Btrfs formatted, "raw" without partitions). It works well.

Samsung seems to call it "64GB microSDHC Pro" in some places though, so the problem here might be terminology and not actual lack of support.

I can't see any reason why the tablet wouldn't support such a card.

blisterpeanuts3• 12 years ago

The specs say "up to 32gb", hence my question. But that's great news that 64gb works. Would 128 work as well?

caseydurfee• 12 years ago

The operating system has to support the exFAT file system. I imagine that's the main barrier -- you have to license the exFAT technology from Microsoft.

You can take an SDXC card and format it as FAT32 and it'll work -- of course you'll still face the limitations of FAT32 as far as file size, etc.

kybernetyk• 12 years ago

I probably won't use it (I'm not a tablet person and my iPad hasn't been touched for months now) yet I pledged for one unit as I think it's important to support such independent efforts in our "bipolar" mobile world.

ulfw• 12 years ago

The Nokia N1 tablet running Sailfish OS would have been a nice combination.

hugh4life5• 12 years ago

Somewhat OT, but in case someone from Jolla or the "Sailfish Alliance" is reading these comments I just don't think Sailfish can take off with many developers if the main application development language is C++. Rust will be hitting 1.0 early next year and it would be nice for the Sailfish, Qt, and Rust communities to have official, corporate backed rust bindings for Qt and Sailfish's APIs.

jerf• 12 years ago

It's difficult for an already-niche product to go chasing a niche language. Niche × niche is pretty small....

hugh4life5• 12 years ago

QML/Javascript and C++ options would not be going away. They kind of already rely on a niche language with QML. I do most of my programming in Javascript, yet I doubt I'd use my time learning that environment unless there was a lower language option that I found attractive. I don't trust QML/Javascript to provide what I would need to develop mobile apps like I would trust Swift or Java.

blub• 12 years ago

I could understand proposing a language like Python or JS, which are different enough and have big communities, but Rust makes absolutely no sense compared to C++ which anyway has a much bigger community.

I just did a quick search and it looks like python can be used.

hugh4life5• 12 years ago

Python(and to a lesser extent JS) are too slow... and C++ and JS are already options.

Sailfish does not have an applications language option that provides the features and performance that Swift and Java provide and with Rust Sailfish can go beyond Swift and Java(in at least performance).

mbel4• 12 years ago

Actually JavaScript seems to be used more commonly for Sailfish apps. It is supported out of the box as Qt/QML allows you to use either C++ or JavaScript.

Here is a simple sailfish app built with JS (not my project): https://github.com/Simoma/tinytodo

fit2rule• 12 years ago

C++ as the default means that things like MOAI can come onboard as rapidly as possible. That's a good thing, yo - it means freedom and variety - and also, very important, compatibility with an existing plethora of libraries and sources. Ports are a very important aspect of their strategy, I think .. and C++ opens the door for lot of things, one of which is of course an alternative language environment, albeit portable. But, then again, things like MOAI mean that getting the host up and running on Jolla is probably going to be easy, and then .. suddenly .. there are hundreds of potential apps to be brought to the platform ..

hugh4life5• 12 years ago

You do realize I called for Qt bindings right? C++ is going nowhere... C++ will always be an option that's needed... especially for games. I actually like C++ but developing in it provides too many unnecessary hassles for many apps.

Sir_Cmpwn• 12 years ago

If the OS is really just Linux and the apps are really just Qt then you should be able to write apps in a wide variety of languages through Qt wrappers.

hugh4life5• 12 years ago

That's exactly what I called for... but the state of Qt wrappers is pretty extremely pathetic... in practice you're only dependable options are C++, javascript, and python(and PySide doesn't get much love so if you want to use python commercially you'll have to play for PyQt).

But, you're comment does bring to mind one fact and that is that not all of Qt would have to be wrapped. For Haskell and Go bindings are only being built for QML. I really wouldn't trust either of those bindings without official or financial backing(like PyQt) for commercial work though.

johnsea2• 12 years ago

Forget Rust, I want Julia :-)

shmerl3• 12 years ago

I'd like to see Rust + Qt used, but isn't it still in early development? C++ bindings from Rust is a tricky issue.

Other than that I don't agree with you. Qt has quite a lot of developers. I always had little respect for Google's choice of Java in Android which was made for the sake of getting more developers. If anything, by that logic Rust would have way less potential developers than C++.

Zigurd• 12 years ago

I currently use Android tablets for taking notes at meetings, Drive document editing, and access to my calendar and contacts. If I could get that with a OS (other than Windows) where I could install Eclipse and/or Android Studio and get HDMI out, I'm in. I wonder if Jolla's (Myriad's?) Android compatibility works on this?

shmerl3• 12 years ago

Are there any details on the GPU?

shortavion3• 12 years ago

I know the Jolla phone isn't available for sale in the US but is there anyone using a one in the US? And if so what carrier(s)? And any particular issue(s)?

mbel4• 12 years ago

I've spent couple of months in southern California and I was using my Jolla with a sin card, that I bought there (T-Mobile). It worked without any issues, also I didn't have any problems with roaming using my European sim card.

johnsimm2• 12 years ago

Were you able to use 3G data though? Or at least multimedia messages?

shortavion3• 12 years ago

Thanks for the info. I might have a chance to pick one up and wondered how well it would work in the US.

jetm9• 12 years ago

i'm curious about why did they go to "third"? there is a very big third Firefox OS not including WP. i can understand an OS based on Android. i can understand contributing to Firefox even forking. it has some real support from telecoms, open development process. apart from being a regional product which can get away with 3rd party app stores i dont get this write-a-mobile-os-from scratch.

wmf• 12 years ago

It's not quite from scratch; Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish is older than WP8 and FxOS.

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