Working hard is overrated

http://www.caterina.net/archive/001196.html

by prakash • 17 years ago

160 98 17 years ago

tfh• 17 years ago

That's damn right. Clearly definied priorities can save a lot of time..

krav• 17 years ago

I don't know. There's working hard and then there's looking like you're working hard. I'm guilty of falling into the latter and learning how to work effectively. Conversely, this guy works hard but seems to be effective:

http://www.inc.com/magazine/20090901/the-way-i-work-marc-lor...

baran• 17 years ago

I think all successful people are guilty of this at some point. When people feel like they are up against the wall, they feel like they have to be constantly fighting, even though sometimes it just best to take a step back.

radu_floricica• 17 years ago

But for those of us who aren't Crick and Watson we have to supplement with a healthy dose of working.

oliveoil• 17 years ago

Wow! I didn't know that Watson was so cool!

zackattack• 17 years ago

He's also racist, though that may be accredited to his senility: http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/10/18/science.race/inde...

Shooter• 17 years ago

I have two good friends from the science fair circuit that worked for him at CSHL. They both (separately) said he has been a huge jerk for many years, a jerk of legendary proportions. Except they used different words for jerk. They said he frequently made off-color jokes and had some "interesting" theories, but that they didn't really think he was actually racist. Neither friend liked him, but they both really respected him - especially his stance on patents.

[The last time I put something like this on HN - something anecdotal and mildly negative - it was about Billy Mays, and he died a few days later. If Watson dies this week, it's not my fault...he's old.]

richcollins• 17 years ago

I see this story over and over again. Someone successful worked really hard and succeeded. They go on to say "I've learned that you don't have to work hard to succeed"

aristus2• 17 years ago

Hmm. It's more like someone comes back from a long wilderness trip or a hike through Europe and they go on and say "I've learned that you don't need 30 kg of luggage". Or someone who's built a good relationship saying "I've learned you can choose not to be jealous or dependent".

I've seen all four combinations of frantic/measured and smart/stupid startups, and I think that measured + smart is the way to go. But I also think that this is one of those lessons you have to learn from experience.

staunch2• 17 years ago

Isn't that long hike still really hard work? Doesn't that relationship still require really hard work?

Just cutting out the stupid make-work doesn't take something from being ridiculously hard to being easy.

staunch2• 17 years ago

I look forwarding to hearing what they really did 2 years from now. My guess is a) They worked obsessively/freaked out/panicked and are possibly successful or b) Hunch was a total failure.

joechung• 17 years ago

Worst. Advice. Ever. She has confused overworking with working hard.

anildigital• 17 years ago

Agreed completely! People have wrong faith about working hard that it would help in bringing out something useful and cool. One should clearly know why he is working hard and is it really worth to work hard for.

rend• 17 years ago

Regarding the Watson and Crick reference: it helps when you have other people like Rosalind Franklin working through the nights doing X-ray crystallography and taking the "pictures" that shed the real light on the structure of DNA. It leaves enough time to write the papers, do the PR, and get the credit. And, I guess, there's more than enough time left over for "chasing popsies."

http://webweekly.hms.harvard.edu/archive/2003/4_7/student_sc...

bootload• 17 years ago

"... it helps when you have other people like Rosalind Franklin working through the nights doing X-ray crystallography and taking the "pictures" that shed the real light on the structure of DNA. ..."

The 50th anniversary of the finding of the DNA structure meant a lot of new documentary information on the background to the race to find the structure of DNA. Firstly it shows the high degree of competitive rivalry between the players (Chargaff, Franklin, Pauling, Watson/Crick and Wilkins) to find the structure of DNA.

The key to finding the DNA structure was not just a fact of experimenting but assembling the pieces of the puzzle to create a workable theory. Each player had different pieces required in the puzzle

* Wilkins: who's earliest X-ray diffractions meant the dimensions could be calculated & who supplied Franklin with DNA samples.

* Franklin & Gosling: the X-ray diffraction pattern clearly showing the structure.

* Linus Pauling: Who's triple stranded DNA idea which turned out to be wrong but tipped off Watson & Cricks idea of a double helix.

* Watson: who knew the base pairing (AT & CG) fit all the dimensions

* Chargaff: who deduced the DNA ratios of A, T, G, C are equal

Then there was the technique. There is no doubt Franklin was the more analytic and systematic scientist compared to Watson and Crick who bumbled around like many of the others in the field building models. But Franklin had two things going against her. Firstly she working in a male dominated field. But more importantly she missed out on the benefit of teamwork. A lot this appears to stem from the personalities of Franklin and Maurice Wilkins. They simply didn't gel as a team as well as Watson & Crick. [0]

So the winners in this case could have been any of these players but it was Watson & Crick who happened to be at the right place and time understanding the smaller picture but more importantly having the imagination and freedom to think about how the pieces fit. Others supplied the information, they found the right theory to tie the information into a coherent idea. Watson and Crick didn't get the Nobel prize for just doing the basic science of discovering the structure of DNA. The pieces of the DNA puzzle lay in front of them. They get the recognition because they re-organised what information they had around them, come up with a theory that matched the data and wrote it up.

[0] Cold Spring Harbor Lab, DNAi, "Finding the Structure, Players", http://www.dnai.org/a/index.html

btilly2• 17 years ago

Good summary but you missed a critical point of serendipity. There are 230 possible symmetry groups a crystal can fall into. Franklin, as a crystallographer, knew them all. But Watson's PHD thesis involved a compound with the same symmetry as DNA, so he was much more prepared to recognize that one than Franklin was.

visitor4rmindia• 17 years ago

First, Watson and Crick were hardly entrepreneurs so the comparison is totally unrealistic.

Secondly, every single successful entrepreneur succeeded by working hard. It's easy to say "work on the right things" but my feeling is the "right thing" only emerges because you are working hard.

ahoyhere4• 17 years ago

I think you might be surprised by how many people got rich by not working very hard at all -- practically, in fact, by accident.

But nobody wants to admit that, not to themselves and surely not to other people. Because "hard work" is the ethic that makes you virtuous in America and among "startup wonks."

So, even when the truth is "I got rich by accident" or "luck," it always comes out the mouth of the entrepreneur as "hard work."

The desire is to look virtuous and deserving. Humans are justification machines -- if we have something, we have to justify why we have it. If we don't, we have to justify why we don't. If you want insights into this topic, read Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me), Predictably Irrational and On Being Certain.

Even more than that, there are people who got rich by having the right insight at the right time, and acted on it. That often doesn't take hard work.

Those people, too, want to view themselves as triumphant as opposed to lucky. They want to pretend that they have something to impart, so that others can "learn" from their success.

Beyond that, most people are horribly incapable of analyzing their own actions, and of analyzing real-world cause and effect, and "hard work" is a verbal tick -- like the "um" of the business memoir world.

There is a cult here -- and everywhere young coding hotshots think they will get rich -- of "entrepeneurpr0n."

And while Caterina and 37Signals might be contributing to the pr0n collection, they are contributing to a totally different stack than the "Work hard and you'll get rich" stack.

And that, in my opinion, is worthwhile.

DanielBMarkham• 17 years ago

I've been thinking about this exact thing for many years now. During that time, I've had a few web startups that did not succeed -- even though I worked like the dickens on them.

There are two types of people in the world: people who think that success is due to learning and work and people who think that success is due to luck.

The side-effects of these belief systems are very important.

If you think success is due to hard work and knowledge, you are likely to work hard and keep learning. If, on the other hand, you think it's luck, you are likely to resent those who are luckier than you and to feel like success is a rigged game.

I think you can err too much on either side here. What's the truth? The truth is that you can learn and work and increase your chances from 1 in a million to maybe 1 in a hundred. Perhaps better. Given these odds, some folks try a few times and make it. Some try once and make it. Some try dozens of times and don't make it. Usually looking back, as you point out, the story is about skill and hard work, even though luck probably had a lot (but not all) to do with it.

You can look at this as a reason not to work or try hard, or you can look at this maturely as simply the way life is played. Personally I think the best strategy is to balance learning/working with increasing the frequency of your startup attempts. If you could fail a dozen times in one year, within ten years you're likely to do well. [insert black swan reference here]

zaidf• 17 years ago

May be once you sell your first company, make your FU money you are able to be more chill about your next start-up?

mvp• 17 years ago

Working hard is just being conscious of what you are doing (most of the time). If you can do the same work without being conscious of doing it, you won't feel it to be working hard.

So learning any new skill, or negotiating new situations can feel like hard work. Imagine how you conscious you had to be of what you were doing when you first learned to drive a car. Making your first startup a success will definitely feel like hard work, as you would have to be learning so many things, and be in situations that you (or many) have not been in before.

Once you have succeeded (and looking in the rearview mirror), you will realize that a lot of the hard work was not really required because it is easy to see (or believe) after the fact what actually contributed to the final outcome that is considered as success.

psyklic• 17 years ago

Working hard does not guarantee success, but it improves your chances. So does having good intuitions about which problems to work on ;-)

scotty794• 17 years ago

> Working hard does not guarantee success, but it improves your chances.

Not a bit if you are doing the wrong things, as you may learn from many startup failures.

imperator• 17 years ago

Working hard is hardly work when you are operating from the basis of your strengths. If you have a group of coworkers whose strengths are your weaknesses, than it is very easy to enter into a state of flow.

Working on which right things is not very elucidated in the essay, but part of that is asking yourself, "What is the write thing for ME to be working on?"

This is a very good essay.

billswift4• 17 years ago

There was a Japanese proverb that was made much of during the 80s:

"If you work hard, you can do it."

Of course, with the Japanese recession and "lost decade" there is less noise about Japanese work habits and so forth. But I have kept thinking about this, because it is important, and a couple of years ago had a slightly different take on it; You can do it if you will do it, and if it isn't worth working hard at, then maybe it's not worth doing in the first place. At the very least, even if you decide later that your goal is mistaken, if you worked hard at it, you will have taken less time to discover that and move on to something else.

ADDED: Working hard also helps you to keep up your enthusiasm and momentum on a project. You can rest and relax and catch up on all your other stuff between projects.

jerome_etienne• 17 years ago

a well worded, more detailed version of 'running like a headless chicken'. Running too often make it easy to get lost on the path and pick the wrong one at an important crossroad.

In french school, it is typical to learn "le lievre et la tortue" a fable from la fontaine (sorry i failed to find a english link on it) .

Mz7• 17 years ago

In English, that's "The tortoise and the hare": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tortoise_and_the_Hare

jmtame• 17 years ago

I was hesitant to click on this link. I thought to myself "oh no, another article that's going to defend 37Signals' philosophy." But as an entrepreneur and designer, the author makes two good points:

(1) we often make things out to be bigger than they really are. This is the case in many situations, just because we don't want our lives to feel dull, so even some of the small problems can be blown a little out of proportion.

(2) Time off is time well spent. It's called incubating in design, and it's where the brain is actually at its most creative. Just a gentle reminder that while we claim to work 120 hour weeks, not all 120 hours are spent furiously pounding out code or designs over a computer.

fpgeek• 17 years ago

Working smart beats working hard, but working smart and hard is best, of course.

jimfl2• 17 years ago

And working fun beats working smart and hard.

billswift4• 17 years ago

Only if fun is your goal. Otherwise, smart and hard win.

Mz7• 17 years ago

I'm reminded of an episode of MASH where Burns tries to get Hawkeye in trouble. Hawkeye is playing cards. Burns feels he should be in surgery. But he is waiting for the patient to be stabilized. He had ordered the kid get IV fluids, whole blood, and antibiotics so he wouldn't die on the operating table. He is playing cards (without drinking, for a change) to keep himself up so he will be awake and alert when it is time to operate in the middle of the night.

There are two kinds of "hard work": The type where you are busy and putting out continuous effort and the kind where the hard part is resisting stupid suggestions from other people, resisting what the crowd is doing, resisting temptation and so on to stick to your guns and do things the right way. That kind of work may not look like hard work to outsiders but in some ways can be harder than looking like you are working hard. I have found that second category of hard work to be more productive and valuable than the first. The first is more about appearances and about reassuring ourselves we are "working hard". The second is about doing the right things at the right time. It often involves a lot less physical effort and therefore often looks like "slacking" and "luck" to outsider observers when it is neither.

steveplace• 17 years ago

Unfortunately, the analogy breaks down when Klinger walks in with a dress.

Mz7• 17 years ago

I don't really understand your point, but will note that Klinger's dresses are a good example of someone working extremely hard at something and getting nowhere. :-)

mechanical_fish• 17 years ago

Oh, I don't know. There are definitely startup companies where the correct career move is to strive for a Section-8 discharge.

daleharvey• 17 years ago

obligatory Jefferson quote

“I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have”

but I do completely agree that its easy to go back into a safe little world of "oohh im busy coding new feature X", when in reality it isnt needed, its just delaying you from doing the important(and hard) things.

antidaily• 17 years ago

...and Ben Hogan - "the more I practice [golf], the luckier I get."

lpellis• 17 years ago

actually that phrase is normally credited to Gary Player.

billswift4• 17 years ago

And Pasteur's classic, "Chance favors the prepared mind."

_pius2• 17 years ago

Without prejudice against her conclusions, a few things came to mind while reading this.

I couldn't help but think that it's easy for someone like Caterina Fake to keep cool and chill out: she's already made her millions from Flickr and she's got no one to impress. Her investors (if any) and colleagues already believe in her, she believes in herself, and quite frankly she doesn't have much to lose.

Also, I did not find the description of Watson and Crick to be particularly surprising, nor the implicit comparison to her current founding team particularly valid. Anyone who's done serious research (or undertaken a major creative endeavor) knows that you need to give yourself time to breathe, be creative, and think about the big picture. Ironically, as I write this, I'm beginning to think the comparison may be more valid than I first gave it credit for ...

Finally, I was reminded of a Steve Blank quote something along the lines of "In uncertain times, people tend to look down at their business cards and do whatever it says on the title line." I think as founders, when all else fails we fall back on doing that thing. Those of us who are technical founders will write code and create features; those of us who are more business-oriented will build new strategies and obsess over details of the business; those of us who have to do both will, well, do both — and not particularly well.

Ardit202• 17 years ago

That's so dumb. Of course you need to work on the right thing. I'm actually confused. She mentions Edison and how he has tried so many experiments and fails, suggests that he worked hard, yet seems to imply that his hard work was somewhat irrelevant. He was successful because he found the right thing. I am puzzled as I am wondering whether she thinks that her readership is ten years old or have no common sense at all.

You need to work hard to understand the little things and incrementally advance towards the solution, or the right thing. You might discover something on a day in which you did little work, but surely you have been working for many years perhaps to arrive to that day.

Working hard is if anything underrated as society puts more emphasis on talent and innate ability. It is hardly over rated and as our society becomes complex by the day, it will perhaps never be overrated.

Mz7• 17 years ago

“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search. I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.” -- Nikola Tesla

Edit: Please note that I have quoted Edison many times when encouraging people to not give up in the face of failure. So I am not against the idea that one needs to keep working at some things. But the idea of "keeping at it" can be a trap that prevents you from reassessing your approach and finding something better.

fjabre• 17 years ago

I think we can have an intelligent debate without having to call her post 'dumb'. I'm surprised this comment was voted so high.

This is the quickest way to lose any debate...

and besides: it's often the most obvious that escapes us. Smart people fall into these kinds of traps all the time. I found the post to be enlightening in that regard.

Ardit202• 17 years ago

It waters down the expectations that a writer should have of their readership however and the expectations that a reader should have of an article.

Personally I would not mind reading some of pg's articles as although some may contain obvious information, they usually have been thought through and synthesised to create new knowledge. This article however is simply stating the obvious as much as an article suggesting that you should eat everyday would be suggesting the obvious. I do not think it has escaped by anyone the fact that they need to work on the right thing, nor as the above comment suggests, that sometimes they may be 'traped' by focusing too much on a certain thing. If the article was about research findings on how to organise your time, how to manage tendencies towards perfection, how to recognise when you are spending time on something you should not, then perhaps the reader would have learned something. The article however is superficial and typical of a wider trend on the internet where opinions are the norm and currency rather than imparting knowledge on the readership.

Perhaps to suggest that what the article contains and the one who wrote it is dumb - within the confines of this specific article - might be perceived as derogatory and uncivilised, yet I do not think that one should refrain from speaking their mind. I found the article dumb, I could have said pointless, yet I thought dumb describes it better because it is so obvious, the title is misleading and hardly supported in the article and the article itself has not been thought through at all, let alone the title. If the writer wants me to hail her as a beacon of truth then she should try much harder rather than think that she is having a chat with her friend while drinking a coffee about what she thinks of hard work.

wheels• 17 years ago

- I don't think you get to skip to the part where you know which things to worry about without worrying about the wrong things.

- This advice will be much more believable if Hunch even scratches the surface of Flickr's success.

wglb2• 17 years ago

This is a good article, and as a person who works long hours, I would like to suggest a distinction. If you are very into what you are doing, long hours do not seem "hard". Hard in the article seems to include a good dose of freaking out. Lets avoid that.

wglb2• 17 years ago

Which reminds me of one of my relatives who said that he worked long hours but not very many of them.

edw519• 17 years ago

Much more important than working hard is knowing how to find the right thing to work on.

That's like saying, "Much more important than breathing is having a beating heart."

Theroem: Working hard and working on the right thing are both necessary but not sufficient conditions.

Corollary: Working hard on the right thing is a necessary but not sufficient condition.

scotty794• 17 years ago

> That's like saying, "Much more important than breathing is having a beating heart."

According to modern resuscitation guidelines this is actually true and meaningful statement.

euccastro• 17 years ago

But it doesn't follow that breathing is optional.

known2• 17 years ago

Your life will be productive, if you plan your life in your teens in reverse order (death->life).

moron4hire2• 17 years ago

If you plan the rest of your life out while you're still in your teens, you'll likely end up with a bad plan (because you lack the life experience to know what a good plan looks like), and you will probably miss out on a lot of the nicer things in life. There's something to be said for stepping back and experiencing life now while you're still young and flexible instead of waiting until after you've achieved "success" and are consequentially old and creaky.

known2• 17 years ago

Plan = What to accomplish in your life

moron4hire2• 17 years ago

While I think there is merit to the concept that "workin' hard is for suckas", I mean that only in what our classical conception of what "working hard" means. Our entire industry, this "Information Technology" thing, is fundamentally about making things that allow people to not work hard. Technology is about being lazy, about avoiding effort where effort is not necessary.

Using index cards and typewriters to compose documents is certainly harder work than using a word processor application on a PC. Nobody would ever say there was greater merit in the old way (well, nobody worth paying attention to). It's the distinction between "working hard" and "working smart."

So "hard work" in the classical sense seems to mean "sit down, head down, move the pencil, move the pencil, move the pencil." That's toiling. That's not thinking of more efficient ways to "move the pencil". Working hard is a productivity enhancer, but only in a linear fashion. Technology is a productivity multiplier.

I refer you to the Robert Heinlein short-story "The Tale of the Man Who Was Too Lazy to Fail," which is provided in his magnum opus "Time Enough for Love". We should be "working hard" on finding ways to be lazy. It's through the pursuit of technologies that allow us to be as productive as we are on less effort that make the big advances in productivity, not "working hard".

Mz7• 17 years ago

"The Tale of the Man Who Was Too Lazy to Fail,"

I hadn't heard of that but I like the title. It reminds me of some personal experiences I've had where I listen to how other people handle certain problems and then think to myself something like "I don't have the time or energy to do things so inefficiently/ineffectively."

jotto• 17 years ago

john carmack does not believe working hard is overrated:

"Putting creativity on a pedestal can also be an excuse for laziness. There is a lot of cultural belief that creativity comes from inspiration, and can't be rushed. Not true. Inspiration is just your subconscious putting things together, and that can be made into an active process with a little introspection. Focused, hard work is the real key to success. Keep your eyes on the goal, and just keep taking the next step towards completing it. If you aren't sure which way to do something, do it both ways and see which works better."

unalone5• 17 years ago

Then perhaps the moral here is that it's possible to be successful regardless of how hard you work, and that different people have different habits that lead to success.

I'm a fundamentally lazy person who does nothing all day and has enough frequent flashes of brilliance to get away with it. Friends of mine have told me that they're not capable of working like that, though I have my doubts: I've always been curious if my method of productivity can be replicated, and one day I think I'll put an effort into figuring that out. But what's clear is that two people working in radically different ways can produce as much in the end.

ellyagg• 17 years ago

Sorry, maybe other folks around here know you...what have you done similar in scale to John Carmack?

scott_s4• 17 years ago

From your previous posts, I recall that you are an art student. I assume that means you're still in college. I think you'll find that as you continue on in your area, the competition grows significantly. As you move into larger pools, you'll encounter more people who can do what you do, but are willing to work harder.

zzkt• 17 years ago

But I'm sure he would agree that working hard on the wrong thing is.

Tamerlin• 17 years ago

It seems like the problem isn't that people work hard, it's that people equate hard work with long hours.

It's not working hard to work 12-14 (or more) hours a day, that's just foolishness. Working 12+ hours a day does have the side effect of making it very unlikely that you're working on the right problem; in software, you're not adding functionality at that point, you're just dealing with the bad code and design you implemented when you were half asleep from burnout at 2am the night before. That's not getting the job done, it's putting in hours for the sake of putting in hours.

tybris• 17 years ago

Your brain is like a muscle, it needs both exercise and rest and the more you train it, the more it can do.

hegemonicon2• 17 years ago

Knowing what to work on is certainly more important than trying to brute force all problems with man hours, but unless you've spent hours and hours of hard work learning your field, you won't KNOW what to work on.

The only reason the Caterina people knew what to work on this time is because of the hundreds of hours of experience they got building flickr.

The importance of hard work to success is extremely well documented: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/08/02/...

http://blogmaverick.com/2009/05/13/success-motivation/

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/21/magazines/fortune/talent_col...

http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwel...

joe_the_user• 17 years ago

I think that the problem is the term "hard work".

I've spend a tremendous amount of time learning those fields that I enjoy and am successful at. But a lot of that time has felt more like 'play' or 'exploration' or curiosity than 'hard work'.

Hard evokes doggedly trying a thousand elements with only the hope that they might create light.

I am sure that Tesla spent at least as much time and energy as Edison in pursuing his field. It also seems he brought more play and imagination to it. And Tesla's inventions were the big ones that made electricity practical - the electric motor, the generator, alternating current, etc.

I think that argument isn't so spending time and energy but rather against thinking that merely putting forth time energy is enough....

hegemonicon2• 17 years ago

I great interpretation of Malcolm Gladwell's 10000 hours that I came across somewhere is "Don't be concerned with practicing 10000 hours at something - be concerned with finding something you enjoy so much that you don't notice when the 10000 hours have passed"

akkartik• 17 years ago

Yep. Alternative phrasing: it's not about how much you work but how immersed you get. That's what you have to optimize for. If it was just about how much work you get done startups would get done in twice the time if you worked at half the pace. But the result qualitatively changes if you never get immersed enough to find the important insights. Hard work is just a means. If it takes real work to find immersion, don't mess with that.

The danger of saying, "I don't need to work too hard," and scaling back on things that seem like dead ends is that they impact immersion. Dead ends are often useful in intangible ways.

Trevor Blackwell calls this tinkering (http://tlb.org/busywork.html)

sachinag• 17 years ago

I don't get the hate for this. Caterina has worked hard before, and she's not slagging on it.

What she is saying is that working hard may not be necessary, and certainly is not sufficient. Anyone who invests in startups knows that she's right: the market is the most important. Getting to product/market fit is important. The first you can't control at all; the second may not take forever/a ton of effort if you really understand the market.

Working hard, in this construct, is essentially just "keep trying new things until you get to product/market fit". Sure, in that case, working harder means you get to try more things in any given period of hours/days/weeks/months.

But if you're in the wrong market, or you can't get to product/market fit, no amount of hard work will lead to success.

einarvollset2• 17 years ago

I think the hate is there because the stated YC/pg ethos is "work really hard so you can compress your working career into 4 years then don't worry about it".

Devilboy• 17 years ago

I don't get the hate for this

Every front page article on HN gets a lot of hate, regardless of topic or viewpoint expressed. I hope nothing I write ever gets to the front page here.

ahoyhere4• 17 years ago

You don't get why the hate? Really?

Just think about it for a second.

Someone who has had pretty big success wrote something that contradicts the many-times-chanted mantras of large groups of people yearning for success, who haven't found it yet.

She just shot down their personal god.

And what do beliefs do when they come under attack? Counter-attack!

If Caterina's essay were all about how hard work is the god she worships, everyone would have loved this article. The dissenters would be few, and gentle. Because the realists, who are anti-hard-work-pr0n, on HN are the philosophical type. They have had more experiences to weather their blind devotion to any mantra and are more likely to say waffly things like "Well, good for him, but that's not true for everyone. Remember..."

jgrant27• 17 years ago

http://jng.imagine27.com/articles/2008-05-01-000046_work-eth...

scotty794• 17 years ago

The more you have, the more you waste.

If you have a lot of your working hours available, there is a greater chance that you'll waste them on useless crap like freaking out and stubbornly making useless misguided things.

It's better to be a bit lazy and treat your work as scarce resource and think about ways to allocate it better.

spiralhead• 17 years ago

My 2 cents. I am not "experienced" in that I haven't yet achieved my millions, but experience has told me "forcing" myself to continue hacking away when I'm clearly experiencing physical fatigue only leads to more lost productivity down the road.

For example, forcing myself to continue working at my computer when I don't feel like it will lead to eye strain, back pain and anxiety. I will often wake up with a headache after such marathons. I refer to this as burnout. Burnout is very real.

In my early years of programming I could work non-stop because I was doing something new almost every day. And for someone that likes new experiences, it was exciting. But after years of experience, programming in-and-of itself feels more and more like labour.

Don't get me wrong. I still love programming, in general. I've just become more focused on the end-results of programming--of what it makes possible, what it does for people. The act of programming itself, while being something that will always be a significant part of what defines "what I do", is no longer something that can sustain my interest full time.

Working hard is overrated

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