Alleged Bitcoin Creator Satoshi Nakamoto Denies Bitcoin Involvement

http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/06/alleged-bitcoin-creator-dorian-prentice-satoshi-nakamoto-denies-bitcoin-involvement/

by lukashed • 12 years ago

92 133 12 years ago

ChuckMcM2• 12 years ago

This mentions 'anger' as in "After a full day of wild speculation and anger, the LA press have finally tracked down Nakamoto and he’s receiving a grilling."

I don't get it, who is angry? This guy could be angry about having his life invaded but where is the emotion coming from here?

canistr• 12 years ago

Some of it is from Reddit/Twitter/Bitcoiners who want Nakamoto to be left alone.

fragsworth• 12 years ago

The anger is coming from the bitcoin community, mostly because they're afraid for Satoshi's life. Someone could kidnap/torture him to try to get his bitcoins.

GuiA• 12 years ago

Him, or any member of his immediate family, which the journalist of the original piece made sure could easily be tracked down.

drcross• 12 years ago

Or his family. At his departure from the project he made it obvious that he wanted to be left alone so people should respect his wishes.

ssprang2• 12 years ago

Is there a particular reason why he'd be at risk for this versus any other well known wealthy person? Are lottery winners worried about this?

minimax• 12 years ago

They obviously think this because wealthy Americans are constantly being kidnapped and tortured for their money. Happens all the time right?

drawkbox• 12 years ago

It could be safer to be known publicly.

spinchange• 12 years ago

One doesn't even have to be in the bitcoin community (or a redditor) to feel sympathy for an obviously private guy who has had a reporter stalking him and his family and publishing photos of him, his house, etc., in a major news publication. Whether he's the creator of bitcoin or not, he and his family are now the focal point of an intense amount of attention and as you highlight, possibly danger.

anigbrowl6• 12 years ago

You were posting in the other HN thread, there were plenty of angry people in that one.

lucb1e3• 12 years ago

I don't get it, who is angry?

I am, for the poor guy that may or may not be the author of Bitcoin but who, and whose family, is now being watched and constantly approached with questions.

skwirl2• 12 years ago

In the video he says "I'm not involved in Bitcoin" (present tense) which is not inconsistent with what was reported in the Newsweek article:

"I am no longer involved in that and I cannot discuss it," he says, dismissing all further queries with a swat of his left hand. "It's been turned over to other people. They are in charge of it now. I no longer have any connection."

I say this because the headline is trying to imply that Newsweek identified the wrong man, and as a result people are on twitter gloating about Newsweek being "wrong." Even if they do end up being wrong, this article and the corresponding video aren't evidence one way or the other.

vilhelm_s2• 12 years ago

Well, according to LA Times reporter Andrea Chang he denied both present and past involvement, so that's something. https://twitter.com/byandreachang/status/441687863222996992

skwirl2• 12 years ago

She is referring exactly the very exchange that took place in video linked in this submission I just described above. Where do you see anything denying past involvement in what you linked?

edit: I saw this (separate) tweet almost immediately after submitting, but HN went down when I tried to edit - https://twitter.com/byandreachang/status/441696297964158976. So she is claiming he said "No no no I was never involved." Which would imply that he wasn't telling the truth to either Newsweek or to this reporter, unless you believe Newsweek makes things up.

Sambdala• 12 years ago

Well the newsweek article also included a back and forth with a police officer that likely never happened, and they also just published an article that "proves" heaven exists because a former scientist went into a coma and saw some pretty things while dreaming. I'm not sure there's a high barrier to meet here, or that we can't assume he was misquoted in the original article.

anigbrowl6• 12 years ago

a back and forth with a police officer that likely never happened

I find this complaint ridiculous, like there's no possible way a police officer could know such things because otherwise they'd been a l33t h4x0r. Police officers read newspapers in about the same proportion as everyone else.

gamblor9564• 12 years ago

Uh huh. Sure. An officer isn't aware of a digital currency that has been the topic of dozens of mainstream news reports over the past few months, and which had a strong relationship to drug and property crimes.

Aqueous• 12 years ago

Right - he didn't say "I've never been involved in BitCoin"

nwh• 12 years ago

Nakamoto, when I asked him in elevator why he told Newsweek he used to be involved with #bitcoin: "No no no I was never involved."

~ https://twitter.com/byandreachang/status/441696297964158976

dengnan• 12 years ago

I think it's just because he is a Japanese. To most East Asian people, we often use wrong tenses because there's no tenses in our native language. This happens to people even if they were in the U.S. for decades. It's actually not about how long you've been in the U.S., it's about when did you start using English as your primary language. If they started using English (as their major language) when they were 20s, it is likely they would make mistakes about using tenses.

bishnu• 12 years ago

Here's a good roundup on Reddit about how Dorian Sakamoto likely isn't Satoshi Nakamoto: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zpuer/the_newsweek...

Given all this, it's incredible Newsweek ran the original story in the first place.

rfrank• 12 years ago

They go back to having a print edition tomorrow, need a big story.

Phlarp4• 12 years ago

Well they need a lesson in proper internet hype cycles then.

step 1. Find a scoop that can actually be verified.

step 2. Don't give it away for free on the internet the day before.

dmunoz• 12 years ago

Forgot about that. The staff of the "new new Newsweek" did an AMA a month ago [0].

Interesting discussion under a reply [1] to this question:

Do you feel like you are able to avoid the reliance on fear-mongering tabloid journalism and human interest that seems to be the focus of cable news sometimes?

[0] http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1vy457/were_the_staff_...

[1] http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1vy457/were_the_staff_...

Cless• 12 years ago

"Not involved with Bitcoin" leaves the door open to having been involved with Bitcoin in the past. I wonder if he was trying to deny past involvement with Bitcoin but worded it poorly, or if he was merely being clever in his wording, like a politician. Perhaps we'll find out.

ufmace• 12 years ago

Unfortunately, this doesn't really tell us much. Of course with the initial info, the rest of the media would track this poor guy down eventually and hassle him until he gave them something. All that's really clear is that he's a bit of a shut-in with no interest in media attention. The only thing he could do that would really be conclusive is to somehow produce enough evidence that he really is the Bitcoin creator Satoshi.

He can deny all he wants, but it'll be impossible to prove that he isn't that guy unless a "real Satoshi" pops up somewhere. Conspiracy theorists on all sides will continue to spin plenty of plausible scenarios both ways. And of course, if he did confirm it, people would still doubt it until there was really solid proof.

lotsofmangos3• 12 years ago

I'm Satoshi Nakamoto, and so is my wife.

But seriously, if this really is the Satoshi Nakamoto and he has been seriously ill with two seperate life threatening illnesses in the recent past, how come none of those bitcoin he supposedly owns have shifted on medical bills?

bcoates2• 12 years ago

The claim that he'd have to publicly go onto MtGox to get funds out of his Bitcoin supply is absurd as well. If you're going to move a few million dollars, you can afford to do it right as a private sale using agents who won't blab to the press or anyone else (as long as you pay your taxes)

Everyone would know that an early adopter moved some coins, but the IP address of the Starbucks that his lawyer's tech guy makes the transaction from isn't going to leak much.

sarreph• 12 years ago

He doesn't like to pay taxes, apparently...

netw1z• 12 years ago

his coins arent on mtGox.

but yes you can see the blockchain - it's public.

he also is a loner with no friends.

the real guy also detailed how the best way to store them.

aarondf• 12 years ago

I'm Satoshi Nakamoto, and so is my wife.

You aren't the only one, apparently[1]. I am Spartacus.

[1] http://teespring.com/satoshi-nakamoto

gamblor9564• 12 years ago

It's been suggested that Satoshi lost or deleted his keys when he left Bitcoin around 2009. It's entirely possible he no longer has (access to) these Bitcoins.

philfreo• 12 years ago

As we see above, the man identified as the father of bitcoin vehemently denies any involvement in this video shot"

No... in the video he denies being presently involved with Bitcoin ("I am not involved in Bitcoin"), he doesn't deny "any involvement".

hooo• 12 years ago

Perhaps he is an actor paid by Newsweek?

georgemcbay6• 12 years ago

Regardless of what you think of Newsweek, they are savvy enough to know that a story like this would kick up a lot of secondary reporting and staging this and using an actor would essentially equate to suicide of their news organization.

georgemcbay6• 12 years ago

While I do feel bad for this guy's current situation (he clearly doesn't want any attention... sort of like the bitcoin Satoshi...hmm!), I really don't understand why so many people are jumping to the conclusion that this story is wrong/fake/some sort of conspiracy or whatever.

If there were a reasonable way to settle it for sure, I'd bet a substantial amount of money that this is the bitcoin Satoshi Nakamoto. The pieces laid out fit pretty well. I think there's a lot of weird denial going on because people built up this crazy fantasy of an assumed identity, highly advanced mathematician guy and learning the dude's real name is actually Satoshi Nakamoto and he's a pretty regular joe (for a near recluse) is causing a cognitive dissonance.

VMG9• 12 years ago

If you look at the internet comments of Dorian Nakamoto, it is obvious that he is not the same person that wrote the whitepaper or participated in the bitcoin forums: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zpuer/the_newsweek...

His skill level is completely different.

hnha• 12 years ago

or he just manages multiple online identities? It's not hard, especially if you are smart...

Steko10• 12 years ago

The idea that these reddit links are some kind of smoking gun is a bad case of rationalizing.

FWIW, my Father in law is a first generation Asian immigrant who is an engineer and for whom English is a second language.

His emails to my wife are like the one above - broken English, poor grammar.

But I've seen some documents that he's written for work - the early stages of patent applications, for instance - and they read like someone else wrote them, even though my FIL is the one who wrote them as they'd yet to have been submitted internally. Proper grammar, more formal prose. There is, every now and then, a phrase or word that seems out of place and not something a natural speaker would say, but the difference between in grammar between work and personal emails is night and day.

Phlarp4• 12 years ago

Some of those links show him speaking in broken english with obvious misspellings, others are well structured and make him seem very obviously technically adept and attentive to at least hobbyist standards.

"Hi Nilayam,

1. Which wheels have spokes and how many spokes for each wheel? My UK built Pearse's 2-6-4 in 15mm/ft (1/20.3 scale) has all the wheels as solid disc (no spokes) and I'm wondering if this is true on the real prototype's Kitson locomotives of the same class, such as the 4-8-4 shown in your photos.

2. What were the thickness of the tyres? I think the thickness should be 4.5" or 4.75" for a 2ft 6inch gauge track with 5" diam. axles?

If you can get close up photos of the wheels, that'll be great. The L&M's truck wheels were 1 ft 11 inches and the drivers were 2 ft 6 inches I believe.

Dorian Nakamoto USA"

While these differences in writing style aren't conclusive in either direction; it does indicate that he is at least aware of how he conveys information online.

sktrdie• 12 years ago

This other comment by the same Dorian shows that he's capable of writing better english: https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/preserved-bars...

georgemcbay6• 12 years ago

There is substantial variation in those samples themselves let alone between those samples and the bitcoin whitepaper. Some of them are written like bad text messages and some are perfect but awkwardly formal, and some are perfectly conversational. If those posts were consistent and at odds with his bitcoin writing (on the forums -- including the whitepaper is silly, virtually everyone writes differently for 'formal' papers) maybe they'd be decent proof, but they are all over the map.

Also, how about adding this link to this list:

https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/preserved-bars...

Another Dorian post on trains which is in a lot of ways remarkably similar to the bitcoin guy's writing.

kkwok• 12 years ago

It's very possible it is him.

That said, I don't think the cognitive dissonance is because of some crazy fantasy however. The creator of bitcoin clearly went to some great lengths to avoid people knowing his actual identity. Given this, it seems very odd for them to have used their real name in all communication.

argumentum5• 12 years ago

How can I take you up on that bet?

This is the first time I've seen reddit (since it's become a mainstream phenomenon) be more reasonable than hacker news.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zpuer/the_newsweek...

The pieces laid out fit pretty well.

What pieces? That he's kind of odd, according to his family? (if you were to take my family, which is fairly normal, 1/2 of us think the other 1/2 are odd). Who doesn't have an odd, reclusive uncle or two?

That he made a vague, difficult to interpret statement (and proceeded afterwards to completely deny any connection between himself and bitcoin)?

That he's "libertarian" according to his estranged daughter (though the following quote doesn't sound libertarian at all to me):

Then Dorian also wrote about “being tired” about another issue: “I’m really tired of having the JACL, et al. requesting or getting $100K to millions in government funds for Japanese American monuments, about the camps or any other issue. Those money should be send on the JA’s practical needs and growth for the new generations. More dollars should be funded for startup businesses, business education, nursing services (yes, forget Keiro with high self salaries) and all they talk about is executive orders, camps, never about the betterment of JAs on their current living conditions or betterment of young ones going out to the world of business, competitions, financial education, etc.

That it was written in Newsweek? Here is an actual quote from the article:

Of course, there is also the chance "Satoshi Nakamoto" is a pseudonym, but that raises the question why someone who wishes to remain anonymous would choose such a distinctive name.

What a shoddy piece of journalism. The authors of the Federalist Papers (Madison, Hamilton and Jay) used the pseudonym Publius. At least that name is really distinctive, in that no one was actually named that, unlike "Satoshi Nakamoto" seems like a common enough name for (also according to the article) there to be "several" living "Satoshi Nakamotos".

EDIT: I expect to get a lot of up votes now thanks to this :) :

In an exclusive two-hour interview with The Associated Press Dorian S. Nakamoto, 64, said he had never heard of Bitcoin until his son told him he had been contacted by a reporter three weeks ago.

Reached at his home in Temple City, Calif., Nakamoto acknowledged that many of the details in Newsweek's report are correct, including that he once worked for a defense contractor. But he strongly disputes the magazine's assertion that he is "the face behind Bitcoin." http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BITCOIN_FOUNDER_DE...

gamblor9564• 12 years ago

The linguistic analysis actually holds up pretty well (both his writing style and his coding style), and the totality of the circumstances wherein Satoshi matches Bitcoin Satoshi makes it very unlikely that this is a "shoddy piece of journalism."

Also, you must not have read the part of the article where the journalist runs through and describes why the other Satoshis are not the Bitcoin Satoshi.

Steko10• 12 years ago

"What a shoddy piece of journalism."

You base this conclusion on one line of speculation in the article? Did you miss the part where the journalist flew out, went to the person's house and spoke to them to confirm it was really him before running the story? Sounds like excellent journalism to me.

joe_the_user• 12 years ago

Oh god,

The worst thing is that this could be a ploy to force the real bitcoin founder to show himself/herself - implicitly their threatening to keep screwing-up random people's lives.

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wpietri2• 12 years ago

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krick4• 12 years ago

Well, yes, of course it causes cognitive dissonance. It is 2014 year now and buzz around his personality is going for a pretty long time already. Both virtual and that one Satoshi-s are said to be worried about anonimity, using VPN to send emails, etc. And yet it is said he used his real name all this time. And being discovered only now by some journalist. Seriously, it is weird just by itself, not mentioning all these little discrepancies in their appearing personalities.

And both "Satoshi" and "Nakamoto" are fairly common japanese name and surname by the way, so I doubt if this one is really the only programmer Satoshi Nakamoto.

georgemcbay6• 12 years ago

I think it is only being discovered now because nobody really looked before, at least not in the sense of actual research and journalism as opposed to googling some shit and doing a blog post.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are other programmers named Satoshi Nakamoto. McBay is a fairly uncommon name and I'm not even the only programmer named George McBay and the other one (who as far as I know isn't directly related in any way) is from Japan! Small world!

But that aside it isn't just the tech/math background, it is the total picture as laid out in the article. Unless the article is totally fabricated, which I have no reason to believe it is, the case it makes is pretty compelling.

lotsofmangos3• 12 years ago

You are betting against something like the chance of there being a Satoshi Nakamoto who is not involved in writing bitcoin, but may have done something else using bitcoin that makes him not want to talk to the press enough to spook a newsweek reporter.

I don't think I know enough either way to make a good bet and I'm not sure that reporter does either.

InclinedPlane• 12 years ago

This right here is like a case study in why a "Computer Science" education doesn't make one a "scientist".

The only thing here is coincidence, allegation, and innuendo: There's not the slightest hint of proof. This is shitty journalism and shitty investigative rigor. What it comes down to is a name and being smart.

Maybe he is the actual bitcoin Satoshi. But there is not one piece of positive evidence that is the case. Everything is circumstancial to the highest degree. Personally I think the standard of evidence for something this important should be higher.

joesmo2• 12 years ago

The denial going on is because there is no proof (thus your invitation to a bet). I find it hard to believe (read impossible) that Newsweek was the first person to have thought of looking through public records to find him.

ck25• 12 years ago

Why do the press feel entitled to show up on someone's doorstep in mass?

That is quite literally trespassing. They just feel like they can get away with it.

Leave him alone, if he wanted to be found he would have shared it awhile ago.

Phlarp4• 12 years ago

Why do the press feel entitled to literally show up on someone's doorstep in mass?

Mostly? The first amendment...

ck25• 12 years ago

Not on your doorstep.

Free press means the GOVERNMENT cannot restrict their free speech.

First amendment does not mean as an individual you can go harass someone at their home.

nilved• 12 years ago

Ah yes, the first amendment. The right to trespass given only to journalists.

bertil6• 12 years ago

You are confusing their entitlement, a psychologically concerning lack of proper upbringing, respect and human decency, with rights. I could fill your inbox with abuse, threats and sickening images arguing it’s my god-given privilege — you’d still wonder why on Earth I would feel like ruining your life like that.

And as pointed out, you are wrong about to whom the First Amendment applies to.

workhere-io2• 12 years ago

to literally show up on someone's doorstep in mass?

Hate to be that guy, but... it's "en masse" :) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/en%20masse

ck25• 12 years ago

That's educational, surprised I didn't know that one.

"in mass" seems to still make sense though in plain english

What is funny is in the legal dictionary "en masse" is described as "in a mass"

http://thelawdictionary.org/en-masse/

meowface3• 12 years ago

Is "in mass" completely incorrect? I know "en masse" is the French version and what is usually said (and what I typically say/write, too), but "in mass" sounds syntactically and semantically correct to me.

anigbrowl6• 12 years ago

IT's not trespassing to go up to someone's front door, otherwise the mail wouldn't get delivered. You can step on to the curtilage of someone's property, but you must leave if you are asked to do so - although nothing prevents you hanging around on the street in front of the property in hopes of getting an interview. If this becomes onerous, one can get a restraining order, but courts are cautious about handing them out to journalists engage din legitimate news gathering.

In short, they feel like they can get away with it because they can legally get away with it.

bertil6• 12 years ago

I don't think you need to be 150 to “gather information”.

ck25• 12 years ago

So, serious argument:

What if you purposely did not have a mailbox on your home but at the edge of your property (like much of rural America vs suburban) and you had no obvious front-door.

Would a person then be entitled to wander around your property looking for you? I would hope not.

So by having a front-door you are suggesting people are allowed to just walk onto your property, up to the door, anytime they feel like it and harass you?

If no door or you do not answer, how about your back window? Bathroom window?

I'm curious how the logic works.

fchollet• 12 years ago

This is obviously not the Satoshi they were looking for. The Newsweek article reads like a ridiculous pageviews grab, sloppy with facts and extremely disrespectful for Dorian Nakamoto.

The foundation of why the journo thought he was Satoshi was... his birth name (which he actually changed years ago, and that is not a particular rare name). Yeah, no contradictions whatsoever here:

> "He went to great lengths to protect his anonymity"
> "He used his real name"

dinkumthinkum3• 12 years ago

I didn't know that the origin of the bitcoin was in so much doubt.

But after seeing this story, the reddit stuff, and other comments around the web, this just seems like a lot of complicated drama. I don't see how serious people will take Bitcoin seriously let alone have it bring about a libertarian revolution.

lucb1e3• 12 years ago

Well it's not the origin of Bitcoin itself, it's about which human individual or group wrote the initial paper and the initial version of the software. It's a side-issue that is mostly pursued out of curiosity.

Note that this doesn't mean that I agree that curiosity justifies the current witch hunt, but that's another matter.

rachellaw• 12 years ago

this thing's a mess and full of he said she said they said. Honestly I expected better of Newsweek, running an unverified story.

Even if he <i>is</i> the bitcoin creator, it's now forever going to be tainted with uncertainty since there's absolutely no verifiable proof that he is, only a lot of speculation.

lucb1e3• 12 years ago

I wonder why he doesn't outright deny it all, current and past involvement. He doesn't want to be involved, as far as we know, so why would he care if it's a lie that he has never been involved? Would he not lie out of integrity (assuming it is him)?

Or does he have some plan to out himself at some point, and is it just that he hadn't wanted it to happen like this? Hmm. Well this last part is only wild speculation, in my opinion this hunt and questioning of him and his family should stop right now, but I still wonder.

Curiosity killed the cat...

gwern3• 12 years ago

I wonder why he doesn't outright deny it all, current and past involvement.

This may well be what he's done in his 2-hour long interview with the AP reporter, an article on which should come out very soon, according to https://twitter.com/JoeBelBruno

wmhtet• 12 years ago

I would like to argue on the possibilities of him not being Satoshi Nakamoto. Other than having the career, which could profile him as the likely Satoshi Nakamoto, the Bitcoin inventor, the article build up him to be one.

I am going to argue against the most convincing statement: "It's been turned over to other people. They are in charge of it now. I no longer have any connection."

As someone who has engineering background in CS field, he will be aware of the Bitcoin and a peculiar case of having similar name (He is Dorian S Nakamoto). Thus, he will be a bit more interested in it(People with unique name can share that sentiment) and know enough about the Myth of the disappearance of the Satoshi Nakamoto, the Bitcoin inventor. We(including him) all know the kind of disturbance we will face if we were identified as mysterious Bitcoin Inventor. There is also a cloud of uncertainty over legality of Bitcoin. I don't think the news about Silk Road with Bitcoin and the FBI issue will help either. For him, he has to be more weary since he shares part of the name. So when this privacy invading journalist come knocking on his door, he pull the Bitcoin inventor act saying that he relegate the task to other to shoo her away thinking it will be over. An easy way out, he might have thought. The fact that he cannot disappear like the Bitcoin inventor did not register in his mind at that time. He could have been pestered by people about Bitcoin before, just like the journalist started asking him about Bitcoin in the middle of model train email exchanges. He is the real Dorian S Nakamoto. He cannot deny his name but he is not a mythical Satoshi Nakamoto. If you were an introvert, how would you react in that situation? You most likely shut up just like he did. Around these assumption the journalist build up the theory that Dorian is the Bitcoin Inventor.

Anyway, I am pissed at the NewsWeek on violating the privacy of individuals(Dorian S Nakamoto and Satoshi Nakamoto) who wants to be left alone.

Alleged Bitcoin Creator Satoshi Nakamoto Denies Bitcoin Involvement

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