Tesla Announces Ambitious European Expansion Plans

http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/04/tesla-announces-ambitious-european-expansion-plans/

by austenallred • 12 years ago

162 89 12 years ago

imdsm• 12 years ago

This is great news. I'm a big fan of Tesla and would love to drive one, but being in the UK, we lack quick chargers. Not too bad if you've got a few hours spare to charge.

Interesting map of UK charging points: http://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/charging-points.ph...

cstross• 12 years ago

A secondary issue for the UK is that we're densely populated and our housing stock is, on average, 75 years old. Lots of dwellings predate the automobile and/or lack a garage or a garden (US: yard) on which to build one. Consequently, home charging is less of an option.

tehwalrus4• 12 years ago

you do need your own driveway to charge, its true, totally illegal/unsafe to run cables over the pavement (US: sidewalk).

Or you just need to live very close to one of the few charging points that do exist. There's one about 30 yards from my front door in London, quite cool if you actually need a car here...

jseliger2• 12 years ago

our housing stock is, on average, 75 years old

Tangential but relevant here: "15 Facts That Reveal The Utter Insanity Of Britain’s Housing Market" (http://www.buzzfeed.com/dlknowles/britains-dysfunctional-pro...)

onion2k• 12 years ago

London is obviously first, interesting that the second most prolific place for charging points is around Sunderland in the North East ... where Nissan make their Leaf electric car.

nicholassmith• 12 years ago

The North East in general has quite a few (I live in Middlesbrough), I assume as a side effect of the Sunderland plant. Unfortunately I don't think I've seen an electric car here, but if Tesla release I imagine that could change.

bausson3• 12 years ago

A push for electric vehicles in Europe is a really good thing, but I'm not sure the market is exactly ready.

On the other hand, Tesla has better getting their supercharger network ready before the sales catch up, the other way around would be bad for the brand. And seeing supercharger on the roadside when going to fill one's tank can get people thinking, given gas price.

toomuchtodo2• 12 years ago

I would argue Europe is a better market than the US because the distances are shorter (how much of Western Europe can fit in Texas?), so there would be less of a range anxiety discussion.

Shivetya2• 12 years ago

by that token Europe doesn't necessarily need an electric car with the same range possibilities as the Tesla S. The real issue is, how large is the market for hundred thousand dollar electrics? I would think they need to keep jumping into markets because demand cannot be that great or sustaining at those price points.

Many luxury buyers have no interest whatsoever in electrics. buyers of Rolls are one such type of buyer. When Rolls trotted out an all electric and took it across the world owners of existing Rolls were not interested. Europe does produce quite a few 100k cars but they tend to be performance exotics, last I checked the main market is much further down stream and for much much smaller cars than the S (which is big even in the US)

bausson3• 12 years ago

Shorter distances is a good argument, but there also others differences which aren't advantage.

Most of my observations are from France, since it's where I live, but it should be correct for Germany, Spain, UK at least.

Plus :

* shorter distances

* higher gas price in EU than US

Minus :

* people usually commute by public transportation. In big cities, they don't even own a car. There is no place to park it, and it's kinda useless, since it take longer to go somewhere by car than by public transport.

* For medium distance (100~1000 km), people use both car and train. It's maybe 50/50, depending on the need of car at destination. You are always more independent by car, but by train you arrive quicker, and rested (a good rail network helping).

* On the 'social' side of things, the car ownership is not a thing the way it is in america (or is it a generation thing / Hollywood exaggeration, I don't know). European young adult buy a car when they need one, not as soon as possible to show they can support themselves.

codfrantic3• 12 years ago

how much of Western Europe can fit in Texas?

Texas is roughly similar size as France.

http://mapfight.appspot.com/texas-vs-fr/texas-us-france-size...

patrickk2• 12 years ago

Tesla has better getting their supercharger network ready before the sales catch up..

Given the fact that average distances in Europe tend to be shorter will likely mean the majority of EV owners (e.g. commuters) will simply charge up at home and rarely need to use a supercharger. Having a supercharger nearby sweetens the deal.

Also, petrol prices are so much higher here, so the economic case for owning an EV is even stronger. For example, where I live it's about €1.49/liter of petrol, which is something in the region of $8.20/US Gallon if I'm doing the conversions correctly. So the payback period would be quicker over here (versus regular new car), plus there's likely to be tax incentives to purchase EVs also. Another plus would be strong support instead of the situation with the dealer network in the US.

I hope Tesla can hit their goal of a low cost EV (€30k-40k), they would dominate the budget car market so quickly if they can deliver at that price, and decent build quality. It would force the big european car makers to complete, which would bring great competition in the lower priced EV segment.

shiftpgdn• 12 years ago

Much of the public infrastructure in the UK is paid for based on gasoline(petrol) excise taxes. Before tax you actually pay about the same as Americans per gallon of gas. I wonder how the government will handle people switching to EVs and effectively dodging the tax.

arethuza8• 12 years ago

The European car makers are already competing in the low cost EV market - e.g. a BMW i3 is available from £25K or so and has been getting pretty good reviews.

[There are other low cost models from Smart, Renault, Peugeot/Citroen etc.]

pjc503• 12 years ago

The EU manufacturers have an eye on this market; you have the Leaf (made in Sunderland UK, as others have pointed out), the Renault Zoe, Vauxhall Ampera (rebadged Chevy Volt), BMW i3.

However, I wouldn't describe E30k as "budget"! I might be tempted by an ex-dealer secondhand Leaf at £10-£15k: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-cars/nissan/leaf

grecy• 12 years ago

but I'm not sure the market is exactly ready.

Eh, the market wasn't ready for a very expensive SSD-only laptop, or a $500 touch-only phone, or a bigger phone called a tablet.

The market "not being ready" didn't hurt any of those things... Skate to where the puck is going, not where it is now.

visakanv• 12 years ago

"Skate to where the puck is going" is a very succinct way of communicating that! Love it, gonna use it from now on. Thanks!

kiiski• 12 years ago

Didn't hurt? Perhaps, but it didn't do much good to them either. Just look at Nokia who had a touch only phone in 2004 (7710) and a tablet in 2005 (770). Those techs only succeeded years later with iPhone (2007) and iPad (2010).

InclinedPlane2• 12 years ago

The biggest constraint in Europe, and a lot of urban areas in the US, is likely having a driveway/garage. Not being able to charge a car overnight is a big deal for EVs.

codfrantic3• 12 years ago

In the Netherlands an EV will come with a charger at street level if there isn't allready one available within 500 meters or something. Some cars come with two, one at home and one at your office...

arethuza8• 12 years ago

Out of interest, how many other car models have been a success in the United States market then sold successfully in Europe?

dangrossman• 12 years ago

About 1 in 5 Model S cars coming off the Tesla assembly line headed to Europe last year. They're not starting from nothing; the Model S was the best-selling car of any make in Norway, and has sold at least hundreds of units into 6 European countries. Small numbers compared to the incumbents, but certainly high enough to matter to Tesla which only sells some thousands of cars each quarter.

kalms2• 12 years ago

I get the feeling it's doing fine in Denmark as well. Seeing them more and more each day.

arethuza8• 12 years ago

I was just curious about whether Tesla have achieved something that has failed other US manufacturers - create a car that appeals in the US home market and in Europe.

thrownaway24243• 12 years ago

C'mon. Tesla was the "best selling car" due to delivering years worth of orders all in the 2nd half of last year, and topped the sales figures only if you aggregate them by model rather than make. Even in the months where the S was the top selling model, Ford sold more cars in Norway than Tesla.

mediaman• 12 years ago

I was going to suggest the Ford Focus, but it turns out that Ford actually launched that in Europe before the US.

chiph• 12 years ago

The last time I was there, I saw a fair number of Jeeps. Wranglers and Grand Cherokees.

arethuza8• 12 years ago

Jeep was actually my own guess as to the only US manufacturer to sell cars in any volume and they don't exactly sell very many... (e.g. in the UK in 2012 there were three times as many Porsche's sold as Jeeps).

gregpilling2• 12 years ago

The first global car like that was the Model T http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T#First_global_car

Kurtz79• 12 years ago

I remember how on my first visit to the US one of the things that surprised me most was how different car models were from the ones in Europe, I couldn't recognize a single one (not to mention the monster sized SUV and trucks that I never saw before).

I believe the difference in distances, city planning and fuel price play quite a role in consumer preference on the two sides of the ocean.

tehwalrus4• 12 years ago

I can't afford one of the Model Ss, but I am totally in line for when they make the budget model in a few years. Very excited that they'll be making a proper-hand-drive one for the UK too, now all I need is a house (hah) with a driveway (even worse)...

dabeeeenster2• 12 years ago

The driveway requirement is an interesting problem. I live ~7 miles from the center of London. Driveways are very, very scarce, and I can't guarantee being able to park in front of my house due to the number of cars on my road. I also don't know how legal/practical trailing a cable from my house is.

I basically can't own a Tesla (even though I would like to!) as I would never be able to charge it.

pjc503• 12 years ago

If I lived that close to central London, I don't think I'd bother owning a car and would rely on TFL.

patrickk2• 12 years ago

Hopefully a combination of superchargers, EVs in public parking spaces in shopping centers (for example, to attract wealthy EV owners to shop there) and arrangements to have EV charging points near work places will serve people in this situation.

robmcm2• 12 years ago

Perhaps your council will install a EV charge point in your road if you ask them, then you can charge it for free and get a dedicated parking spot ;)

bhousel• 12 years ago

I can't speak to the legality of the building codes where you live, but I don't see any technical reason why you couldn't have an outlet installed near the street to charge a car. It's pretty common for electricians to run conduit out to the street and install convenience outlets for things like landscape or sign lighting or powered gates.

EDIT: The electrical nerd in me had to see if someone has done this before, and yes, it would look like this: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19974-NEMA-14-...

NEMA-14-50 is the kind of outlet used by RVs and Campers, so putting one outside is pretty much a solved problem.

Though as other commenter have mentioned, actually getting a parking space outside your house may be the biggest challenge!

Shivetya2• 12 years ago

What is wrong with the offerings currently available in the lower price points? I am really trying to understand the desire to wait on a car that is essentially vapor ware at this point.

With batteries being the constraining cost I do not see how they are going to have a low end car with any real range beyond 100 or so. I just don't see the math.

I am seeing Leafs popping up all over, they may have hit their price threshold for that to occur in my area (US). It fits the commute profile of a large number of people, I would suspect that is true for those here.

tehwalrus4• 12 years ago

see my answer to blah.. - nowhere to charge it, and I don't need one for at least 6 months in any case.

blah32497• 12 years ago

Why wait?.. you can just get a Nissan Leaf now

tehwalrus4• 12 years ago

I currently live in London, I don't need a car. Soon, I'll be moving somewhere else (undetermined as yet), where I probably will. If I don't have a driveway though (which is likely), then an electric car of any type becomes very difficult to charge.

melvinmt• 12 years ago

At rougly $9.70/gallon for regular gas, Europe makes the most sense for electric vehicles.

Mvandenbergh• 12 years ago

On the one hand, the much higher population density of Western Europe means that range and charger density issues are much easier to solve. On the other hand, for precisely that reason many people don't have drive-ways to home-charge their cars.

DocG• 12 years ago

Rumors say that canceled cars are being offered to Estonia first if contacted. Also, there is already two Teslas driving around. (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=et&tl=en&js=n&prev=... take with a pinch of salt)

Apparently there is already charging network http://elmo.ee/laadimispunktide-vorgustik/ (compatible thou? I doubt)

And you can get up to 18 000 euros backing from goverment when buying electric car. (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=et&sl=et&tl=en&u=ht...)

greglindahl• 12 years ago

If that's the Chademo network (Wikipedia says there were 148 of those in Estonia as of March 2012), then yes, Tesla is releasing a Chademo adapter in a few weeks. It charges at 150 miles/hr, slower than a supercharger and much faster than a standard L2 240v charger.

buro9• 12 years ago

I wonder how they will manage the market differences.

For example, in the UK the majority of cars at the level Tesla is going for are business vehicles. In that category, the tax laws make it such that the best thing to do is to lease a car.

Which is why you get business leasing options from every manufacturer:

BMW: http://www.bmwbusinesspartnership.co.uk/

Mercedes: http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/unitedkingdom/mpc/mp...

Lexus: http://www.lexus.co.uk/company-cars/company-car-driver/2013/...

Basically, company car perks are paid in cash in monthly installments. Everyone with a business vehicle leases the vehicle using the cash they are paid.

Tesla may sell a fair few cars in the UK, but if they want to put a lot of cars on the road they'll need to package the car in a way that will attract this market.

I'm sure similar market differences exist throughout Europe too, where local conditions mean that buying outright isn't usually the best deal.

arethuza8• 12 years ago

People keep saying that "Europeans don't drive much" but there are quite a few models from European manufacturers with very high ranges - over a 1000 miles. And they seem pretty popular with the people I know who have (and need) company cars.

001sky2• 12 years ago

You mean that diesel extends the range, is that the variable you are missing? At 20 mpg you need 50 gallons of fuel. At 50 mpg you need 20g. Cars with 20g fuel usually get 20mpg for a 400 mile range. On the flip side, many more models with diesel have higher ranges because the fuel capacity is set for petrol (20g) and swapping in diesel increases the energy payload per unit volume (40-50mpg).

objclxt• 12 years ago

Tesla already has a leasing program in the US, and in fact I suspect they would prefer all their customers to lease the vehicles (certainly if you go to their website you won't see a sticker price on the front page for the Model S - you'll see a monthly lease price after rebates, etc).

mikeash• 12 years ago

Note that they don't technically offer leasing, but rather a loan with a guaranteed repurchase price after three years. I don't know how much that matters, but there it is.

I get the impression that they like to talk up monthly costs not because they prefer leasing, but because it tends to show the car in a better light. They have a calculator which lets you calculate the "effective" cost of the car, which basically starts with the actual monthly cost and then subtracts off various savings, ranging from reasonable things like paying less for gasoline, all the way down to fairly dumb things like the value of the time you no longer spend filling up at the gas station.

JimmyM• 12 years ago

That's an interesting decision, I wonder why? In such a fast-moving industry where they're constantly making their own old models redundant, wouldn't the models they get back after the lease period be basically useless to them?

darrhiggs• 12 years ago

"In 2013, Tesla delivered 22,477 vehicles to customers worldwide. By the end of 2014, Tesla expects combined sales in Europe and Asia to be almost twice as high as sales in North America. Part of that projected growth will come from the UK, where right hand drive versions of the Model S will soon be introduced. Highly competitive leasing and financing options, similar to a program the company recently launched in Germany with rental company Sixt, are also expected to drive growth on the continent."[0]

[0] http://www.teslamotors.com/en_EU/about/press/releases/tesla-...

raesene3• 12 years ago

One thing that to consider is that in UK company cars provided to employees as benefits are taxed heavily based on emissions, which is what drives a large number of customer to small engine diesels (hence the popularity of the BMW 520d amongst company car owners).

In that market assuming that tesla would be in the best emissions category, I'd expect them to do really well.

dharma1• 12 years ago

Think you can already buy the left hand drive version in the UK, they have a showroom at Westfield. Haven't seen anyone drive one in London but I think they will do well, personally I'll wait for one after Model X once battery tech is better

codfrantic3• 12 years ago

I've seen many Model S' driving around Amsterdam. Mainly because I filter through the traffic jams on my commute. Yesterday I was at a company which had two parked in front (connected to a charger on an EV-only parking spot next to a Plug in Prius).

One of the main reasons Tesla S' are this popular is that as a business owner you can get tax breaks for electric vehicles which can change the actual price you pay from €80.000 to ~€35.000...(Curious when that gets shut down by the government...)

Tesla Announces Ambitious European Expansion Plans

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