Steam Machine Teardown

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Steam+Machine+Teardown/20473

by elliottcarlson • 13 years ago

206 127 13 years ago

Damn, awesome specs. I also love the subtle unit marker, very cool idea.

mikestew3• 13 years ago

$500 video card, huh? After complaining that $500 for the XBone was a little pricey (I bought one anyway), building my own got just a tad less appealing. I will be interested to see how much volume pricing brings down the final price at release.

hdevalence• 13 years ago

You can build your own steam machine without a $500 graphics card.

jagermo• 13 years ago

or a cheaper one and upgrade from time to time.

ido• 13 years ago

Might as well be the "standard" spec for a good 5+ years (see how long the xbox360 & ps3 stayed in production: 7-8 years), and prices for pc hardware drop quickly.

salient• 13 years ago

That GPU is 3x faster than the one in Xbox One. Also, if you cared so much about performance/price, you should've gotten a PS4, which has a performance to price ratio of 1.8:1 compared to the Xbox One (1.8 Gflops/$400 vs 1.2 Gflops/$500), and you can play all games at 1080p.

mikestew3• 13 years ago

I never mentioned price/performance at all. I also don't know anyone at Sony that can get me PS4 games at half price, so there's TCO and more than just the initial price. And my TV is 720p, so 1080p doesn't matter right now. Other than that, you were spot-on with your assumptions.

pandaman• 13 years ago

I believe you meant Tflops, PS2 was already 6 Gflops just for the CPU units (MIPS and VUs combined), with pretty beefy GPU on top of that.

ep103• 13 years ago

Valve released a large variety of steamboxes for this beta test, so they could test different hardware. Some of the boxes had 1k cards in them, some had cards on the lower end of the range. Don't get too attached to the 500$

mikestew3• 13 years ago

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I have not been following all that closely, despite having an interest, and took the iFixIt build to be the blessed standard to be followed by all others.

jonesetc• 13 years ago

Basically just a small form PC. Pretty much every component that will be messed with is just an off-the-shelf part. Not really any surprises here, but it's nice that it's all confirmed.

User13982• 13 years ago

Thankfully, no proprietary HPU (hat processing unit).

pekk2• 13 years ago

You will need one to mine Valve's hatcoins

pmjordan2• 13 years ago

Over the years, I've tried a few times to design a gaming capable PC that would easily fit in a suitcase and not make as much noise as a 747. I never found cases with a form factor like that with internal power supplies, and which will fit, power and cool a mid-to-high range (~€180) graphics card.

The other components are easy of course.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, because I'm definitely in the market for something like this. More than 50% of my gaming time happens when I take time off - which usually means I'm visiting family for a few weeks, and taking anything bigger than this on a plane or train is not realistic. I was hoping Thunderbolt might solve the problem with external GPUs, but right now that seems more trouble than it's worth.

nitrogen3• 13 years ago

You could try building a custom PC into a hard-shell travel case. I believe there are also ITX or micro ATX cases that can accommodate a 400+ watt PSU for powering a GPU in that range.

bitwize• 13 years ago

"All right. What have we got? A computer! Not a surprise, actually. To be expected, to be honest. Check that off the list: computer identified. Tick."

geetee3• 13 years ago

Does anyone remember Infinium Labs and the Phantom[1]? I'm not at all trying to make vaporware accusations. I just can't believe it's been 10 years.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Entertainment

pekk2• 13 years ago

What is the point of bringing that up here?

MartinCron2• 13 years ago

An "alternative" gaming console probably just sparked a memory, that's all. No harm in a little retro nostalgia.

geetee3• 13 years ago

The Phantom was taking the same approach pretty much. Off the shelf PC parts and digital copies of games. Just interesting to see how much and how little changes in a decade.

ThomPete• 13 years ago

ecosystem the defining difference

nitrogen3• 13 years ago

I'm more reminded of the Indrema (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indrema). I was so ready for an open console back in 2001. We only had to wait 12 years for someone to sort-of do it for real.

geetee3• 13 years ago

Oh man, totally forgot about this one!

jotm• 13 years ago

The big difference is that the new console is made and marketed by a multi billion dollar gaming company with the largest games marketplace for desktop operating systems. I kinda hope they succeed in turning Linux into the goto OS for gaming...

svantana• 13 years ago

I don't care too much for gaming, but I'm in the market for a CUDA box, and this looks pretty much ideal...

woodson• 13 years ago

Same, but since I care mostly about double precision performance I won't be having much fun with the GTX 780.

viggity• 13 years ago

a coworker got into the beta and I got to play with the controller for a little bit yesterday. I really like the concept of the touch pads, especially as a big FPS person. Analog sticks just can't compare to a mouse, but the touch pad will make me consider switching some gaming to the living room. http://twitpic.com/dp50dp

deletes• 13 years ago

Make a video/report and post it on Hacker News!

selectodude• 13 years ago

Why would ifixit knock off a point due to a full PC in a small form factor being a tight fit? Doesn't seem to make any sense.

dnissley• 13 years ago

It's not just the tight fit, it's that without knowing/remembering the proper cable routing you might not be able to get everything to fit back in the case after taking it apart.

Guvante2• 13 years ago

If you do a small form factor PC yourself you will have extra lengths in your cables to make perfect cable routing not necessary. They provide shorter cables and thus require figuring out how to get it back together.

vacri• 13 years ago

The cabling, cowling, and RAM were mentioned as being a little difficult. To me, 'a little difficult' would suggest that it can't actually get perfect marks for 'easy to do'.

MartinCron2• 13 years ago

My goodness, that thing has a PS/2 keyboard port. Maybe I can drag my first-generation Microsoft natural keyboard out of retirement.

Zr40• 13 years ago

Some gamers still prefer PS/2 if given the choice, even though there's little technical advantage. Although their most cited reason (key rollover) isn't valid; the keyboard determines how many simultaneous key presses it will transmit over USB.

jksmith• 13 years ago

Huge advantage. Whip out that 5lb Model M and get to clicking. Typing on an original right now.

indlebe• 13 years ago

n key rollover is determined by the keyboard and the connector, if the keyboard supports it and your interface is PS/2 you do get full rollover.

bri3d3• 13 years ago

http://superuser.com/questions/16893/do-usb-or-ps-2-keyboard...

PS/2 keyboards observationally are known to have a bit less latency. Since there are a ton of variables at play (keyboard controller, USB poll rate, PS/2 interrupt queuing, etc.) it's hard to evaluate just how much the difference will be with any given setup.

falcolas• 13 years ago

It seems it's less about what the keyboard sends, and what the standard protocol allows:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5572.msg85020#msg85020

I'm sure a keyboard could set up their own driver that allows more key presses, but that's certainly not the standard.

tree6014• 13 years ago

Max Keyboard were the first to crack N-Key rollover over USB. Can't say enough about their NightHawk X8...

http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x8-blue-ba...

eco• 13 years ago

My understanding of how n-key rollover was finally implemented in USB keyboards was by putting a USB hub in the keyboard and having the keyboard pretend to be several keyboards all at once.

wyager2• 13 years ago

The only ways to get n-key rollover over USB are through dirty hacks (like USB hub emulation) or through non-standard drivers. It is an issue.

lambda3• 13 years ago

This is the first console I've ever been interested in actually buying. I've always refused to buy devices that don't allow you to write and install your own software (I don't count hacks on them, so this is the first console that's actually open enough to meet my criteria. The nice thing is that this makes a pretty good off the shelf home theater PC even if I never actually use it for gaming.

chroem• 13 years ago

I'm curious, what phone do you use?

freehunter4• 13 years ago

Android fits the bill for what he's described. It's doubtful that everything in a SteamBox is completely open source (including graphics drivers and firmware on various hardware), so even though Android isn't 100% open source, it's roughly on par with the openness of a common Linux desktop.

lambda3• 13 years ago

A Nexus 4. As I said, my criteria are that I can run my own software on it without having to go through some intermediary, and I am able to replace the operating system if I would like.

I would prefer a fully free software stack, but I realize that that's not always possible, so I like to support the next best thing. Traditional consoles have always been so hacking unfriendly that I have refused to buy them.

Just so you know, a Nexus One was the first cell phone I ever bought; it was the first that I considered free enough (and capable enough; the Dream/G1 was just a little too clunky for me to consider it particularly useful).

Narishma• 13 years ago

These are living-room PCs, not consoles.

swashboon• 13 years ago

I always laugh when I see 'PC' because I take it at is literal meaning - 'Personal Computer' - which always makes me wonder what about apple products, consoles, or even mobile phones makes them not either personal or computers. They all seem to be computers, they all seem pretty personal to me...

baddox• 13 years ago

These are living room PCs and consoles.

lambda3• 13 years ago

I'm not sure what the distinction is. A Playstation 4 has AMD integrated CPU/GPUs, and runs BSD. An Xbox One also uses AMD CPU/GPUs, and runs a Hyper-V hypervisor which runs both the Xbox OS and Windows.

Those sound an awful lot like PCs to me. Sure, they have a bit of custom hardware design, but for the most part are basically just PCs; except that they're locked down and you can't write your own software for them without going through an intermediary (and if you try to, you may get sued or arrested for hacking).

kbenson• 13 years ago

Maybe you should look into the Ouya[1] as well.

1: https://www.ouya.tv/develop/

yaeger3• 13 years ago

If we talk "gaming" and PC and "traditional consoles", I fear the Ouya is a little underpowered. Doesn't it run on a chip that is normally found in smartphones? Some type pf snapdragon?

Aissen• 13 years ago

Ouya's bootloader is locked. You cannot install whatever OS you want.

revelation• 13 years ago

What the hell is a 32 bit processor doing on a simple button/light daughterboard?

realo• 13 years ago

"Steam Operations" did not have a chance to have a good Father-Son conversation with "Steam Engineering" yet.

Don't worry... it will come.

bri3d3• 13 years ago

Cortex-M0 is often cheaper in volume than the 8-bit stalwarts, so why not?

hahainternet• 13 years ago

It's not exactly 32 bit and comes with an onboard USB controller so it was probably a pretty economical option.

jrockway2• 13 years ago

They're dirt fucking cheap, is why. Last I looked, $0.80 a piece. Why screw around with an 8-bit AVR when it's more expensive and you're plugged into the wall and don't care about power?

(Oh, and I'll add a tradeoff: the chips are cheap, but they are not as easy to get up and running as an AVR. Programmers and a bunch of Windows software seems to be required; I've given up every time I've tried to use one :)

PeterisP2• 13 years ago

Replace a bunch of $0.80 parts with $0.30 parts in any consumer device, and the difference on your profit margin tends to be quite noticeable.

bri3d3• 13 years ago

I'm a bit late here but just as a heads up ARM have an officially developed Cortex-M* GCC target which hosts just fine on Linux: https://launchpad.net/gcc-arm-embedded

With OpenOCD and STLink the STM32 family of Cortex processors are easy to use with Linux (arguably easier than in Windows, actually, because the toolchain isn't as shitty).

I do agree that using them from Windows in the often-documented "beginner's path" way really sucks.

mbell• 13 years ago

It's a $1.50 MCU at low volume which probably has off the shelf USB drivers. Why would you build-cost-optimize a prototype for a product you never plan to mass produce? Choosing the path with lowest engineering cost is almost always the correct solution in such a situation.

AmVess2• 13 years ago

Very nice little box, considering it's all COTS stuff save for the chassis, LED button and controller.

I imagine these will be available with a range of CPU's and GPU's come release day.

knodi• 13 years ago

So based on those off the self component whats the total value of the box? about 1000$?

abrahamsen• 13 years ago

Roughly $1300 according to the article.

AmVess2• 13 years ago

Hard to say, since each beta box comes with different goodies:

"The 300 prototype units will ship with the following components: GPU: some units with NVidia Titan, some GTX780, some GTX760, and some GTX660 CPU: some boxes with Intel i7-4770, some i5-4570, and some i3 RAM: 16GB DDR3-1600 (CPU), 3GB GDDR5 (GPU) Storage: 1TB/8GB Hybrid SSHD Power Supply: Internal 450w 80Plus Gold Dimensions: approx. 12 x 12.4 x 2.9 in high"

Guvante2• 13 years ago

The GPU RAM almost certainly varies with what GPU you end up with. Titan 6GB, 780 3GB, 760 2GB, 660 2GB.

Zarathust• 13 years ago

This is a very important question. I routinely build gaming PCs for friends and relatives and all this stuff is pretty hard to come by for less than 1000$. Especially this huge GTX 780 which is pretty high end.

wnevets• 13 years ago

The pc hardware is the least interesting part. What really matters is how well the controller works with PC gamers and is the OS good enough for a TV.

lectrick• 13 years ago

I hope 3 things happen

1) SteamOS is very successful along with Steam Machine

2) Windows is knocked out as a gaming platform

3) SteamOS users will be less annoying than Xbox and PS3 users

wcfields• 13 years ago

"3) SteamOS users will be less annoying than Xbox and PS3 users"

If I wasn't at work right now I'd bet the farm that there's a page 1 post on /g/ with "SteamOS Master Race".

gambler• 13 years ago

2) Windows is knocked out as a gaming platform

I will cheer for Windows demise only when GOG starts selling their games for Steam OS.

yaeger3• 13 years ago

A good chunk on GOG re DosBox games so shouldn't these run in SteamOS already? There is a DosBox for Linux, isn't there?

Ygg2• 13 years ago

Number 3) is impossible to be any different if people from Xbox PS3 migrate to it, which should happen if 2) happens and consecutively Xbox fails.

zerohm• 13 years ago

If Valve really wants to compete with consoles, they need a wireless controller. I go back and play the old PS1/2 and Gamecube occasionally, and the toughest adjustment is going back to a wired controller.

ddedden• 13 years ago

Agreed.

I'd guess that the wired version is just for the beta. When it's released, I'm sure a wireless option will be available.

tacticus• 13 years ago

They do have a wireless controller. it is shown in step 4

ajanuary• 13 years ago

The beta versions are wired. The plan is for them to be wireless.

voltagex_• 13 years ago

"The board is wrangled by an NXP LCP11U24F 32-bit ARM Cortex-M0 microcontroller."

I wonder if this could be re-purposed (just for interest's sake).

pjc50• 13 years ago

Almost certainly; that's the same processor as used in one model of the mbed, all you have to do is find the JTAG/SWD on the board. The default firmware may be code-protected, but there are ways round that.

hershel• 13 years ago

I wonder if it's coded using the mbed, since the controller might be going to be sold in volumes?

dominicgs• 13 years ago

There is an ISP switch on the board and the pins for programming may be on the header labeled "debug", although it's likely that those are JTAG. Either way, it should be easy to reprogram it. Not sure what you would do with 12 LEDs and a power button, but it's certainly possible.

The LPC11U37F in the controller could be worth a look too.

Steam Machine Teardown

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