Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/30/top-selling-cars-norway-now-electric-cars-two-months-row-7-reasons/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

by ggjain • 13 years ago

56 50 13 years ago

cleantechnica.com

ggjain2• 13 years ago

And the Best part its not Tesla. In September, it was the Tesla Model S and in October, it was the Nissan Leaf.

dagss2• 13 years ago

As a Norwegian this keep coming up in lunch conversations. I just bought an old used car from somebody buying a Tesla.

What we come back to is the very high sale taxes on new cars in Norway (our "rule of thumb" is that cars are close to twice as expensive in Norway as in some other countries), but that most(/all?) of those taxes are waived for electric. So the alternative to getting, e.g., a Tesla is paying almost twice as much for a "similar" BMW. Same story for lower-end cars.

Also, on the commuter high-ways leading in to Oslo, there's one lane that's reserved for bus+taxi+electric (similar to the 2+ or 3+ person-per-car lanes in California). There's a joke that there's a standing queue of Teslas in that lane now (though I don't drive there so I haven't seen how much of an exaggeration that is).

Also, electric don't pay on the toll roads, which saves you 3-4$ each time if you're living outside towns and commuting in.

alecco• 13 years ago

(Please don't take this in a bad way, I'm just curious and not judging)

How do people feel being a top oil exporter and doing green policies/laws internally?

IBalic• 13 years ago

I am a Norwegian myself, and you just entered the big issue in the environment debate here. There are a lot of activists criticizing the fact that if we are exporting oil, it doesn't help with all the "green" measures we do. However, there are even more people thinking that it does not help anyone if we stop exporting oil, because the same amount of oil is getting burnt everyday regardless of what we do. So the only thing we will achieve by stopping to export oil, will be to "make a statement", and probably other nations will produce more polluting oil, due to a less environmental-friendly production process. We achieve a lower standard of living, and we will probably make no/small impact on the environment by stopping. I actually understand both arguments, so it is hard to take a stand.

pi-rat4• 13 years ago

Most Norwegians do not care that much, but there have been some small discussions and newspaper headlines lately discussing the ethics and double standard of exporting oil/gas while trying to be green. Many people just shrug and say it's better the world burn oil/gas than chinese brown coal.

And you know the old saying - don't get high on your own supply..

Zitrax• 13 years ago

About prices, I compared prices in Sweden of a new Audi A4 and a Tesla S as normally cars are much more expensive in Norway, but for Tesla it's cheaper in Norway. I have not checked any rules about taxes or such, just got the prices for the same model from audis and teslas regional web pages.

             Sweden   Norway
  Audi A4    33 269   64 843
  Tesla S    70 798   55 682

(Prices in €)

conductor2• 13 years ago

Are there any legal restrictions for Norwegian citizens to go and buy cars in Sweden (then drive home)?

bjelkeman-again• 13 years ago

Bummer you have to pay import duty when importing from Norway to Sweden.

_delirium• 13 years ago

The electricity:petrol price ratio is also more favorable in Norway than many other countries, thanks to a combination of high petrol taxes but not too expensive electricity (due to the large hydroelectric capacity).

For example, in California, typical petrol prices are around $0.85/L ($3.20/gal), and residential electricity prices are around $0.17/kWh. So you get about 5 kWh of electricity for the cost of a liter of petrol. Meanwhile in Norway, typical petrol prices are around $2.45/L ($9.25/gal), and residential electricity prices are around $0.25/kWh. So you get about 10 kWh of electricity for the cost of a liter of petrol.

edit: Actually might be an even bigger ratio. I was getting the Norwegian retail price of $0.25/kWh from Eurostat [1], but Statistics Norway gives a price of only $0.14/kWh [2]. Which would make for nearly 18 kWh for the cost of a L of petrol, 3-4x better ratio than in California.

[1] http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index....

[2] http://www.ssb.no/en/elkraftpris

unfasten• 13 years ago

For my own curiosity I completed the gasoline end of the math above. Hopefully I didn't botch any of it. If so, please correct me:

According to Wikipedia¹ the energy of gasoline is ≈11.8 kWh/kg at a density of ≈0.74 kg/l, giving us 8.7 kWh/l. For California, using the $0.85/l price, we get $0.10/kWh (rounded from $0.09770) for gasoline. Norway, at $2.45/l, gives us $0.28/kWh.

¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Energy_content

bborud• 13 years ago

I don't think it is about the fuel prices. While it is true that Norway has the highest petrol prices in the world, we have among the lowest fuel cost/income ratios in the world.

It is about getting 400+ hp at family barge prices.

(And that is okay by me. We need more people to drive electric cars so we can evolve and develop them. And Norway is a great place to do that because of the hostile climate and the even more hostile politicians and their medieval ideas of what constitutes a "road")

edit: link for reference http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/gas-prices/20133:Norway

salient• 13 years ago

That sounds like a great political strategy to get people off oil. If only that were implemented in US, too.

dghughes2• 13 years ago

What about driving in the snow?

As a Canadian I can't see a Tesla being of any use in the winter, do people talk about that?

zefhous• 13 years ago

Supposedly it's pretty good in the snow. The Model X will have an all-wheel drive configuration too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS9uDJGi52A

pi-rat4• 13 years ago

Here is a review of the Tesla during winter conditions in Norway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ5PqPeOPT0 (Spoiler: Pretty damn good even in harsh conditions)

Pxtl2• 13 years ago

Really? I live in Hamilton and we plough so aggressively that I don't think anything on 4 wheels is inappropriate for the snow. You barely even need snow tires here unless you're planning to drive out to cow country.

You out West? I've heard they don't salt out there, which makes all the difference.

ggjain2• 13 years ago

The argument is right. But consider rebates as support or venture fund by Govt. It promote sales - sales promote more production - more production promotes more private investment and better ideas.

The cycle has started and showing good signs.

I believe, if the same support is replicated across the world, it is very much possible we may witness electric automobiles a very viable alternative within next 10 years.

Pxtl2• 13 years ago

Good God, could you imagine that kind of aggressive policy here in North America? It would be political heresy.

Seriously, everybody was all for saving the world from global cataclysm until we found out it would be expensive and inconvenient.

embro3• 13 years ago

I am proud of you Norway! Can't wait for Canada to do the same.

tobiasu• 13 years ago

You can't wait for Canada to put a 100+% tax on gas-powered vehicles? I have bad news for you...

embro3• 13 years ago

To be honest, that would make my day, I wish gas was triple the actual price.

riggins2• 13 years ago

I can't wait for widespread adoption of electric cars and reduced pollution.

conductor2• 13 years ago

Are you sure it will reduce the pollution (genuine question)? The cars will stop polluting directly but the electricity producers will start producing much more electricity (which is much more pollution) to feed the cars. So, which of these two pollutions is better - nuclear waste/pollution or co2?

gsnedders2• 13 years ago

The majority of electricity in Norway comes from renewable sources — mostly from hydro-electric power (which is, inevitably, relatively easy in a mostly sparsely populated, mountainous country).

cryptoz• 13 years ago

The economies of scale in electricity production are immense, so yes it is indeed an improvement to move to electric cars even if all electric cars are fed by dirty pollutants. Which they aren't.

Also, a move to a less polluting industry is more than the sum of the direct effects; you must also consider research and momentum - as more electric cars are built, solar power and battery efficiency will also improve. If you take the opinion that an electric car is the same as a gas car because at some point they both pollute, you'll never make any progress anywhere.

riggins2• 13 years ago

Are you sure it will reduce the pollution (genuine question)?

I live in NYC. I was thinking specifically of the air quality in NYC which its almost sure to improve, rather than total pollution.

However, I think it will improve total pollution as well. I'm fairly certain that natural gas fired combined cycle generation (which is most of the new generation being added) is both more efficient and lower polluting than the internal combustion engine, so total pollution should decrease.

Dewie• 13 years ago

The people that are complaining about pollution rather than global warming might be thinking about the particles that aren't pleasant and/or healthy to breath in. Global warming is a problem for everyone (though the effects of it may vary depending on where you are on the planet), while pollution is for some a more local problem. If, for example, all cars in a city were converted to electric cars there might be more net pollution (maybe - could be all hydroelectric for example), but the pollution itself would be concentrated around the power plants, not in the city itself. So then you won't have to deal with pollution if you live close to one of the main arteries of that city.

moocowduckquack2• 13 years ago

The efficiency of a large closed-loop stationary turbine such as is used in power generation is massively better than that of a small internal combustion engine and the oil needs far less messy processing to use as a fuel, so even if all of the power generation was oil based, switching the cars to electric would still reduce CO2 emissions and other pollutive effects.

aquadrop• 13 years ago

Wow, a country with Tesla Model S as top selling car... powerful :)

rsendv• 13 years ago

As a Norwegian I would like to see sale numbers in Oslo compared to the rest of the country.

My educated guess is that the vast majority of EVs are bought and driven in the larger Oslo area, and if I'm right, I think we actually should be discussing Oslo and not Norway as a country.

Edit: Reorganized two words.

bhewes• 13 years ago

Norway is one of the richest countries in the world. Here in LA a bunch of my neighbors have bought the Tesla S. The tax incentive on a luxury car is nice, but it is still a luxury car. I do like how hydrocarbons are the main driver of green tech in Norway.

Top-Selling Car in Norway Now Electric Car Two Months in a Row

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