Terminal Cornucopia

http://www.terminalcornucopia.com/

by Amadou • 13 years ago

252 108 13 years ago

tn13• 13 years ago

I have always wondered about this. Given the kind of stuff available in these stores I think it is nearly impossible to scan all those items for security.

christiangenco• 13 years ago

Brilliant!

Could someone make a short montage of all the weapons firing/being detonated? Slow internet and a lack of weapon descriptions make for quite the frustrating evening.

ye• 13 years ago

Yeah, we're gonna stop what we're doing, and make a montage just because you have a slow internet connection.

voltagex_• 13 years ago

Grab the URLs out of the page and use youtube-dl on a lower quality setting.

PaulHoule• 13 years ago

it would be nice to have some text and photos rather than videos you can only watch if you're in Kansas City or outside the US

signed0• 13 years ago

The BLUNDERBUSSness Class is by far the best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsem22DkIjw

TL;DR: AXE body spray is super combustable!

wlian• 13 years ago

Umm. I'm not the only one wondering where the elemental Lithium came from? Right?

jlgreco3• 13 years ago

I believe some disposable batteries have elemental lithium foil in them (opposed to rechargeable lithium-ion batteries).

Zakharov• 13 years ago

I think it's the heating element in a thermos; "fraguccino" uses the same technique.

brianpgordon2• 13 years ago

I love how he takes great pains to emphasize that it's "reloadable" and "break action" but when he fires it it just explodes.

treefort5• 13 years ago

it's actually sitting right here beside my desk. completely functional. ;)

FreeFull• 13 years ago

The propellants are butane, isobutane and propane. The same sort of gases you'd use as fuel for a portable gas stove.

aaronsnoswell• 13 years ago

I've often thought how interesting it would be to see a TV series about something like this.

csmatt• 13 years ago

Is delivery to the stores and restaurants after the TSA related and our enforced?

revelation• 13 years ago

If there are LiIon batteries available, why bother will all this stuff?

Just short them out and throw them somewhere strategic. Takes all of a minute.

CamperBob2• 13 years ago

Have you tried this?

baddox2• 13 years ago

They generally just catch on fire and smoke a lot.

icelancer3• 13 years ago

They have protection against explosion. This doesn't work besides getting them hot and catching on fire, maybe.

chimeracoder• 13 years ago

All of these findings have been reported to the Department of Homeland Security (TSA) to help them better detect these types of threats.

The threats that the TSA itself admits are non-existent? (http://tsaoutofourpants.wordpress.com/2013/10/17/tsa-admits-...)

The best I can see coming of this is that the TSA will start to ban braided leather belts and condoms.

ktsmith3• 13 years ago

The real villain here is the dental floss.

jlgreco3• 13 years ago

The more ludicrous the TSA gets with its bans, the better. In the long run doing that will only make them look like clowns and make the general public resent them more.

michaelt• 13 years ago

I've been waiting for backlash against absurd restrictions to close the TSA since 2001. Don't hold your breath.

malandrew3• 13 years ago

I believe this is the end game:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6693455

Andrenid• 13 years ago

I wouldn't be surprised if they start putting severe limits on all non-food shops in the terminals now. There seems to be no end to the ridiculous measures they'll take, no matter the inconvenience to flyers.

joering2• 13 years ago

No, that's not the point. If you ever been through checkpoints enough times you will see TSA agents going back and forth skipping detectors all the time. If any of them can not smuggle hazardous stuff then we are living in a word where no cop is a bad cop.

Its all a show and unfortunately past examples shows that those who try to terror or did terror an airplane were either working with, willingly or not, the FBI/CIA or other gov agencies. And why wouldn't they? You take a mentally ill men, drug him big time, tell him government is bad and then you "catch" him on the plane with bomb behind his waist. Result? Another billion bucks spent on "terrorism" and Chertoff making $300MM on his radiation scanners.

So long story short; no, they are not interested in messing around with airport smallbusiness shops, even if this would stop a terrorist attack, because their mission is not to prevent one, but rather get american people used to deep searches, submission on demand and checkpoints everywhere.

austinl• 13 years ago

More likely to ban Axe body spray and similarly pressurized canisters. Those were used in all of the combustibles.

joshdance• 13 years ago

I don't know how effective any of these techniques would be to a terrorist, however cool and ingeniously constructed the weapons were. The whole security TSA thing is mostly a show anyways.

malandrew3• 13 years ago

Taking over a plane with box cutters was mostly show as well. It only worked in 2001 because people went along with terrorist theater.

If any would be terrorists tried the same tactic from 2001 today they would be mauled in the cockpit. Prior to 2001, passengers assumed they would be hostages and would come out unharmed if they cooperate. Now they assume they are potential collateral damage. That's a huge difference.

The only thing they actually need to prevent getting past screening is explosives. Every other method I can think of would not work fast enough before the passengers take you out.

The only way to overpower an entire plane full of passengers is in numbers and spread throughout the plane. Social Network Analysis can be guess if more than N passengers not sitting together (i.e. not family or friends) are likely acquaintances warranting greater scrutiny.

dsjoerg• 13 years ago

I would hope the passengers on a plane would be so brave, but there is a real collective action problem there for the passengers. Best case scenario, there are enough brave people on board willing to selflessly risk death to -- hopefully -- save lives. Would I? Would you? You don't know what you're made of until the moment comes, and I hope neither you nor I are ever tested in this way.

Remember, individually it's "rational" (in the game-theoretic sense) to let the other brave folks take the risk, while you sit there nervously and think about the kids/parents/pets who couldn't bear to be without you. And let someone else be the hero.

Worse case scenario, nobody is brave, and everyone dies as a result.

josephlord• 13 years ago

If any would be terrorists tried the same tactic from 2001 today they would be mauled in the cockpit. Prior to 2001, passengers assumed they would be hostages and would come out unharmed if they cooperate. Now they assume they are potential collateral damage. That's a huge difference.

How good are the new secure cockpit doors? If responsible for securing planes I would be worried about a surprise attack getting through while the door is open and then locking the doors before any of the passengers have time to react. I suspect that the secure doors may be counter-productive and less safe than a plane full of passengers able to help.

Another potential threat is one of the pilots themselves if they can subdue the other pilot and close the door can anything be done?

Equipment available doesn't really matter though short of semi-automatic weapons and explosives.

scintill76• 13 years ago

True, but it only underscores the point that confiscating, e.g., nail clippers* is stupid when one can build _grenades_ in the airport. Sure, maybe you still can't take down a plane or kill a lot of people with a "fraggucino", but you can do a lot more damage than you can with nail clippers!

*Edit: Nail clippers may be permitted now. This point may still apply to scissors greater than 4 inches in length, or screwdrivers greater than 7 inches. http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/prohibited-items

moron4hire• 13 years ago

I think the key takeaway here is that there are two types of people: those who grew up and eventually became TSA agents, and those who were curious about the world when they were kids and learned all of this stuff.

joshguthrie• 13 years ago

I cross my fingers hoping the BLUNDERBUSSness shotgun will be available in L4D3 or Dead Rising 3.

WalterSear• 13 years ago

Teleglitch

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/tag/teleglitch/

cowmix• 13 years ago

I find it ironic that I'm reading this link from a Las Vegas airport gate waiting for my plane... using their wifi.

gonzo• 13 years ago

You can say, "thank you". :-)

zacinbusiness• 13 years ago

I think it comes down to what people are willing to put up with. Personally, I don't mind any of the TSA stuff a single bit. I've stood in line for hours, missed a flight, and gotten home at 1am due to TSA and other security stuff, but I don't mind because it at the very least acts as a deterrent.

However, I think that most of these things could be solved with a second screening. None of these options would pass a secondary x-ray, for instance. Or, a better option would be to have all items purchased in duty free to be shipped as luggage, and retrieved in the destination airport. Those would both be a huge pain in the ass, however, and I doubt anyone would put up with it.

Amadou3• 13 years ago

I don't mind because it at the very least acts as a deterrent.

What evidence do you have for that belief? Here's my evidence to the contrary -- if the TSA really were deterring terrorist attacks, the result would be a shift to other targets. It isn't like a terrorist is going to just give up, go home and forget about causing terror. They are going to pick another easier target. So where are all the other attacks?

Since 9/11 the number of civilian attacks has been less than the fingers on one hand, and the only one that wasn't just a bunch of mental midgets too incompetent to even ignite a bomb were the Boston Bombers.

No, there is no deterrent here because there is nobody to deter. If there were actual, serious terrorists looking at getting onto planes, the TSA wouldn't make a bit of difference. We've got TSA agents using their privileged access to smuggle drugs - it wouldn't take much to swap a couple of keys of cocaine with a couple of bricks of C4 and those dummies would end up helping the terrorists.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/26/news/la-trb-tsa-drug...

riffraff• 13 years ago

I like your reasoning, but couldn't you also say:

in the ten years before 9/11 the number of civilian attacks on US airplanes has been less than the fingers on one hand. After TSA 100% of these happened on non-flight targets.

Mind you, I still think the TSA is dumb.

mikeash5• 13 years ago

When you look at how easy it is to commit acts of terrorism, and how few acts of terrorism actually happen in this country, it becomes clear that the only reason for that is that there are very few motivated people.

Automatic weapons are extremely easy to come by in this country. Think of the havoc you could create just walking up to an airport security checkpoint at rush hour and opening fire. If you know a few like-minded individuals, then you could synchronize the attacks to happen simultaneously at, say, JFK, Dulles, Reagan, and LAX. The casualties would be immense, and the subsequent panic would be enormous.

There are about a million other possible scenarios you can cook up that take no more than a few semi-intelligent nutcases and a few thousand dollars. Of those million, the current system defends against perhaps ten.

Although, when you look at it objectively, those attacks do happen fairly frequently. Navy Yard, Sandy Hook, Aurora, and many more. But we don't call them "terrorism"... why? Only because it doesn't fit the overly-specific mold that "terrorism" consists of. If they were brown middle-easterners shooting up schools, we'd call it terrorism no problem, but since it's a white dude, we call it something else. And because of that, there is basically no anti-terrorism effort directed at these things, furthering the argument that such efforts are completely useless.

x00544• 13 years ago

Deterrent? You would think death is a deterrent, and yet most terrorists aren't deterred by the prospective of death, what makes you think some overpaid government employee with far below average IQ is a deterrent for someone who is willing to die for his cause. For god sakes, most TSA people aren't even permitted to carry guns. You know why? Because they would shoot each other by accident, while taking a piss.

The only people TSA deters is honest an law abiding citizens from flying as often as they would otherwise.

guiomie• 13 years ago

Lol ... Planned Parenthood.. Why go thru all this trouble, and not just use the black rod to stab someone ? would be way more effective no ?

treefort5• 13 years ago

That all depends. Is the attacker trying to hurt someone within arm's reach, or are they trying to disable the pilot/co-pilot as they are walking back into the cockpit after a trip to the lavatory from the comfort of their first-class seat? Everybody poops.

Aloha• 13 years ago

Seeing this 'nâ€™s' totally takes away from what the website is trying to say.

treefort5• 13 years ago

argh... must've happened when I made a small content edit from my phone about an hour ago.

ot• 13 years ago

#shitHNsays

D9u3• 13 years ago

The real travesty here is that "General Aviation" flights (private aircraft) face no such TSA screening as we see in "Commercial Aviation" flight terminals.

So anyone who has the money to charter a private jet is also able to carry whatever they want onto an aircraft, which illustrates the double standard inherent in most tyrannical systems.

daniel-cussen3• 13 years ago

Onto any aircraft?

D9u3• 13 years ago

My experience is that many Private Aircraft terminals, such as private jets, private helicopters, etc, don't screen passengers, or their luggage, the way the public is searched in "Commercial Aircraft" pre-flight screening.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/private-...

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/2011/01/is-ga-a-menace/

The above links discuss the matter further.

mgkimsal• 13 years ago

have no fear - our theater is 100% reactionary. when an attack like this is carried out then we'll put in onerous theater procedures to slow things down there as well.

Then... we'll wait for an attack on sea vessels. After people die that way, we'll put more security theater there, without ever reducing or removing the decade+ old theater imposed in other areas.

D9u3• 13 years ago

There already have been such attacks...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/us/19crash.html?_r=0

mikeash5• 13 years ago

Why would it be a "travesty" than they have, whether through inattention or lobbying or whatever, managed to exempt a bunch of people from their idiocy?

daniel-cussen3• 13 years ago

OK, how about airports stop selling aerosol cans and lithium batteries after the security check-in? They seem like the worst offenders here.

vezzy-fnord• 13 years ago

This is simultaneously an excellent hack, culture jam and an expose of the security theater that is the TSA.

There was also the people who were successfully able to get through with decoy explosives without a hitch, but this is much more whimsical.

codezero• 13 years ago

While this is all interesting, none of these videos show any actual lethal potential. I'm not saying that there is any, but there is no target and no way to show whether these tools inflict any meaningful damage.

pritambaral• 13 years ago

You probably did not see the videos fully. Chucks of Liberty and 'Murica can crack open a human body pretty smoothly. Most lethal, in my opinion.

And even if Fraggucino and Blunderbussiness only hurt or maim someone, they are enough to strike fear among a crowd of people. Do not underestimate the implications of that.

baddox2• 13 years ago

The melee weapons are a bit silly though. Everyone knows that people can be extremely dangerous with melee weapons, or even just their bare hands.

icelancer3• 13 years ago

They are demos. Did you ever think what would happen if you made a canister bomb with 12x the ingredients?

hughlomas• 13 years ago

None of these weapons would be of much use for anything besides maiming one or two people, which could be accomplished with much simpler things. They are novel creations though.

ajasmin• 13 years ago

When I read 'Terminal' on Hacker News I don't think of the airport kind...

pyre• 13 years ago

I also initially thought of a TTY, but there are too many definitions of the word that could still fit with this site.

jack-r-abbit• 13 years ago

He makes a point to say all those things can be purchased after the security check point... but wouldn't most of that stuff make it through security anyway?

Houshalter2• 13 years ago

I find this really interesting, but I feel like publishing it is a bad idea. The TSA could just use this as an excuse for more absurd policies, or worse someone could actually try some of these things, which they wouldn't have figured out on their own. Only a very small risk, maybe, but for what benefit?

dkbk• 13 years ago

While I found the content interesting, the videos do a very poor job of presenting information efficiently and concisely. Time is wasted in the introduction, the listing of materials takes far too long when bullet points would suffice, diagrams are only shown for a few seconds apiece, and the music is downright irritating.

A bullet point list of materials, a paragraph of description, a few diagrams and an embedded video demonstration would be far more effective. A slideshow would also work well.

I apologise if this seems nitpicky, but as interesting as I found what you've done, I only watched half your videos because I found it so painful to sit through them. I doubt I am alone in this.

x00544• 13 years ago

The music is really creepy and I am annoyed that there is no narration, considering the length of the videos. It's constructive criticism though, I like the actual info.

lhnz• 13 years ago

That's nothing: break open many brands of low-quality leather shoe and you'll find a 3-5 inch sharp metal blade [1].

I know this because my shoe fell apart a couple of months ago and one came out: I'd been through multiple airports with this on my feet and I think it's highly likely that a majority of people are incidentally carrying sharp metal blades because of this.

[1] http://distilleryimage4.ak.instagram.com/a31902082b7911e3b58...

x00544• 13 years ago

In court in San Diego women are not permitted to where stiletto heels to court. This is due to an incident when one lawyer took her shoe off, ripped off the heal, revealing a sharpened metal spike, and proceeded to attack the opposing console with it. This was not premeditated, apparently many high heal shoes have metal spike in the heal for support. The spikes are sharpened to make it easier to insert the heal on during manufacturing. This happened in South Bay court, if memory serves.

Houshalter2• 13 years ago

Putting a sharp spike under your foot just seems like a terrible idea.

ck2• 13 years ago

But why even try to get on a plane or through "security" to plague people with mass terrorism?

Huge crowds are already caused by homeland security theater.

Are they still taking water bottles from people and throwing these "dangerous materials" right into the trash next to everyone?

x00544• 13 years ago

Forget about AA batteries, think about all the laptop batteries. All you need is 4-5 laptop batteries, and you can have a serious bomb going. And how easy would it be to carry that into the airport? Take 2 laptops with you, 2 backups, a cell phone, 3 backup batteries. No one will even blink an eye.

darklajid• 13 years ago

You're late: http://xkcd.com/651/

ithkuil• 13 years ago

In fact, airports in places such a Turkey have two security checks, one at the very entrance of the airport buliding, and the second just at the gate.

However it looks like they are relaxing that:

http://www.ataturkairport.com/en-EN/Airlines/Pages/Announcem...

blahpro• 13 years ago

"Airplane Mode" claims to use a Parrot AR Drone 2.0 (~$290) for parts. The controller used is actually an infrared one from a smaller and cheaper (~$20) RC helicopter, like this: http://www.amazon.com/Syma-S107-S107G-Helicopter-Colors/dp/8...

callesgg• 13 years ago

These weapons are harmless they are not scary enough.

People know what an AK47 is and they know it will kill what it is used on.

Power lies not in the weapon, it lies in what people think of the weapon.

Another thing, since 911 passengers most likely assume they will be killed whether if they cooperate or not. Certain death in a plane crash or possible death trying to take a terrorists weapon.

mavdi• 13 years ago

There it is! The association between my middle eastern name and a bomb making website on NSA Database! Thanks HN!

Terminal Cornucopia

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