CIA is largest US spy agency, according to black budget leaked by Edward Snowden

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-is-largest-us-spy-agency-according-to-black-budget-leaked-by-edward-snowden/2013/08/29/d8d6d5de-10ec-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html

by wj • 13 years ago

152 74 13 years ago

washingtonpost.com

galapago• 13 years ago

In your face, NSA!

atrus• 13 years ago

I'm confused, why is it surprising that the CIA is the largest spy agency?

ianstallings6• 13 years ago

Because the myth was that the NSA was many times larger than the CIA. The reality is they pumped money into their Special Activities Division, which is a paramilitary division that gets involved in a lot of clandestine military actions. Usually they work side by side with DoD assets to accomplish military missions. This basically changes the notion that the CIA is simply a bunch of agents working out of embassies around the world to handle HUMINT assets that do the real spying. They still do that of course but they've become a much more hands on agency.

JonSkeptic• 13 years ago

Half-jokingly, I will posit an alternative theory: The NSA is still the largest (has the most personnel), they just pay their people crap compared to CIA.

sker• 13 years ago

Because of Good Will Hunting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrOZllbNarw

"You guys handle 80 percent of the intelligence workload. You're seven times the size of the CIA."

ImprovedSilence3• 13 years ago

Haha. Well, I wouldn't be all the surprised if the the NSA was bigger employee wise. But budget wise, no way.

ImprovedSilence3• 13 years ago

uh... no shit Sherlock. Are there even any other "spy" agencies? Does the NSA count as spying? Invasion of privacy, warentless and possible unlawful search, yes. But the word "spy" implies people on the ground collecting information, does it not? Does the NSA makes the tools that facilitate CIA spying? Perhaps. Even so, of course the CIA spends more than anyone else, it costs a lot lot LOT more to run and maintain huge network of humans planted throughout the globe than it does to run a big ass data center.

SeanLuke• 13 years ago

But the word "spy" implies people on the ground collecting information, does it not?

It does not. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spy

migrantgeek• 13 years ago

Heh, this is some real movie stuff. Do you think some Yale grad with blonde hair is hanging around cafes in the Middle East or China trying to blend with a disguise too?

Human collection work is done by that Yale grad paying some locals for info, putting that info into a product (powerpoint) and sending up the chain where no one ever looks at it again. The information is probably bad because the local just wanted to feed his family and took money to rat on some guy he just doesn't like.

That's why the CIA's budget is huge. All the payouts and bribes. I know couriers grift plenty in the process too.

untog2• 13 years ago

It's kind of staggering that a contractor like Snowden had access to information like this. What possible reason could someone at his level have for looking this up?

spdy• 13 years ago

Thats what happens when you outsource your administrators. If i remember correctly the CIA made a hosting deal with Amazon. So every high level Amazon administrator can access highly classified informations.

And for Snowden he saw the black hole and everything they are planning he must have seen some very scary stuff, hopefully he wont be the guy in jail or death with a mark on his head "Told you so." and we did not act.

ImprovedSilence3• 13 years ago

> Thats what happens when you outsource your administrators.

Wait, I understand that he was a contractor. But wasn't he previously an NSA employee too. So he basically stayed in the same chair, but just got a bigger pay check. Revolving door and all that. I wouldn't go so far as to call it outsourced, his work was still 'in-house'.

Jtsummers• 13 years ago

http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/2013/0321/Amazon-enters-...

Amazon will be developing it, and probably managing it, but it is not part of the primary Amazon infrastructure so outside of those contracted to work specifically on the CIA system, Amazon employees shouldn't have access.

ianstallings6• 13 years ago

You know I keep hearing this myth. As if a real employee/agent could never leak information. TS/SCI clearance is the same for everyone. Cleared is cleared.

frecklebob• 13 years ago

Regarding Amazon, I highly doubt that. As an Amazon employee, I know that only staff administrators with government clearance/certification can access AWS-GovCloud systems for maintenance. And the auditing of maintenance is pretty intense too.

atonse• 13 years ago

There is no difference in the amount of scrutiny given to contractors' background checks vs. government employees.

Take for example the fact that all weapons used in the military are designed and built by private contractors. Would you say it's a risk to allow contractors to have full access to weapons data when they are the ones that design and build it?

bradleysmith2• 13 years ago

Actually, he probably didn't:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6300057

untog2• 13 years ago

Well, in which case, it's staggering that security was so weak that he could do that!

Sagat• 13 years ago

Perhaps the real value of the leaks was to show how vulnerable the spy agencies are?

aet• 13 years ago

What about DIA? Budget ~ $25billion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Intelligence_Agency

ianstallings6• 13 years ago

Also a big budget, most likely towards warfare related spying, such as figuring out how many main battle tanks a particular bridge in China can hold.

rgbrenner4• 13 years ago

I wasn't surprised (the CIA ran the drone program), but apparently it is a common myth that the NSA is larger.

More importantly though.. what purpose does leaking this serve? It shows nothing illegal, or even questionable. It has nothing to do with the documents leaked previously. I just don't understand why he thought this needed to be leaked.

MikeCapone3• 13 years ago

More importantly though.. what purpose does leaking this serve? It shows nothing illegal, or even questionable. It has nothing to do with the documents leaked previously. I just don't understand why he thought this needed to be leaked.

Maybe it's about taxpayers knowing where their dollars are going? First you show that your government is spying on you, and then you show how much of your own money that costs..?

rgbrenner4• 13 years ago

If it were $100b+ or some other outrageous number, then perhaps... but the CIA is $14.7b.. It's a drop in the bucket in the budget. It's even less than NASA, and you can see how much the general public cares about that.

kaonashi• 13 years ago

Taxpayer dollars get returned to the issuer. It's like asking where all your movie tickets are going.

alan_cx• 13 years ago

Because there is no reason for it to be secret?

JonFish852• 13 years ago

Bull-pucky. Seeing budgets can give foreign governments a very good idea of how many people work there, what sorts of equipment is being bought, etc.

andrewcooke• 13 years ago

i would guess this decision depends on many details - it's going to involve weighing costs v benefits of making available for public inspection. the risks don't seem huge for a budget doc (compared to something with more operational details) while there are already possible gains - this report suggests that the CIA has misled the public, for example http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/dna-test-verified...

joecurry• 13 years ago

How is this news? I don't need a budget, or Snowden to tell me the obvious.

medlazik• 13 years ago

It's more news than what honey booboo ate yesterday or whatever is in your country's newspapers today.

jrs2354• 13 years ago

Or what hannah montana did at an entertainment award show.

jrs2354• 13 years ago

I understand you might be implying the relative size or budgets of the organizations may have been obvious. But, how are/were their actual budget's obvious?

alayne• 13 years ago

A budget was leaked in the 1990s that showed the NSA receiving more dollars and the CIA having a 3 billion dollar budget. I don't understand you guys saying this reversal was in any way obvious. Not only that but the leak indicates that the budgets are in flux now. It's also long been assumed that the NSA isn't running just some "big ass data center", but rather expensive cutting edge technology.

ihsw3• 13 years ago

It should be noted especially clearly that the CIA is the only independent US intelligence agency[1][2], where others fall under the following:

* Defense Department

* Department of Energy

* Department of Homeland Security

* Justice Department

* State Department

* Treasury Department

Now, the above mentioned departments directly fall under the purview of the executive branch (through presidential appointment of directors, administrators, or secretaries) whereas independent agencies have a commission or a committee of some kind.

Whether or not this should concern you is up to you, and one thing to note is that the independent agency's commissions have longer appointment terms than the usual four-year presidential terms.

It should also be noted that the CIA is the go-to agency for clandestine operations that involve reconnaissance, espionage, or subversive operations -- both domestically and abroad.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_Uni...

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_intelligence_community#Membe...

UnoriginalGuy• 13 years ago

It should also be noted that the CIA is the go-to agency for clandestine operations that involve reconnaissance, espionage, or subversive operations -- both domestically and abroad.

I thought the CIA had limits placed on what they could do within the US?

mhurron3• 13 years ago

And the NSA is limited to not collecting details on Americans.

jonnybgood2• 13 years ago

This is correct. The CIA cannot operate domestically, that's the FBI's job.

michaelhoffman• 13 years ago

No. The Central Intelligence Agency is not run by a commission. It is run by the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, who is directly appointed by the president with the advice and consent of the senate (50 USC § 403–4a(a)), as much a part of the executive branch as any department secretary, with no special term appointment.

ihsw3• 13 years ago

Indeed, I stand corrected.

orenmazor• 13 years ago

Why is this surprising? the CIA deals with people. the NSA deals with math. shipping a shitload people around the world costs way more than running a shitload of servers.

CIA is largest US spy agency, according to black budget leaked by Edward Snowden

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