Tesla outsells Porsche, Jaguar, others in California

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/08/26/tesla-models-s-porsche-jaguar-california/2700289/

by ValG • 13 years ago

128 81 13 years ago

arjn• 13 years ago

This may be the quiet beginning of a revolution. A shift in not only the public perception of all-electric/non-petroleum vehicles, but also in their availability and affordability.

JoeAltmaier• 13 years ago

I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't Tesla's game plan all along. Start with cool; move into affordable.

joejohnson• 13 years ago

It was. Musk stated exactly that in 2006: http://www.teslamotors.com/fr_CH/blog/secret-tesla-motors-ma...

mbreese3• 13 years ago

This is every car makers strategy too... most (all?) of the gadgets and safety gear that are available in modern lower-end cars were developed in higher priced product lines (or even racing models). Power locks/windows, Satnav, power steering, anti-lock brakes, etc...

The higher margins help pay for the development of what will be standard features 5-10 years down the road.

Wilya• 13 years ago

Affordability and availability ? This is silly.

Tesla is making electric cars that rich people would actually buy. Not low-end electric cars for the masses.

scott_s• 13 years ago

Everyone has assumed (or have they explicitly stated?) that they are using the research, development and sales of the expensive cars to lead towards building and selling cheaper cars.

dylandrop3• 13 years ago

Tesla often cites that it started out in the luxury car market to recoup R&D costs and entry costs (getting their first factory, etc.), and have mentioned multiple times that they're planning on building a ~30k car within the next 5 years or so (http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-to-introduce-new-300...). So no, this is not silly.

curiousDog• 13 years ago

Still kicking myself for selling my stock at $90.

alyx• 13 years ago

Still kicking myself for not buying the stock when it was $27 :)

mehrdada• 13 years ago

If you want to kick yourself for not buying anything, which is not a wise thing to do considering there's always something growing faster than you'd expect, kick yourself for not buying TSLA options, not the stock. That's where the real money was.

chris_mahan• 13 years ago

I did buy the stock at 27, and also at 17. Back then, thought, the naysaysers were all: Tesla will fail; Tesla will never make a profit; Teslas are too hard to recharge, yadda yadda. I invested $3K (today: $17K). I also invested in Ford (made 9K) and American Airlines (lost $600) and Washington Mutual (lost $300). You've got to spend money to make money.

My prediction? TSLA at 500 sooner rather than later. Who would have predicted Google at 700 three years ago? (it was 430 then)

Of course, now look for competitors, especially those who can poach Tesla people. I imagine all the car makers are researching aluminum bodies and electric powertrains. Do your research. I had already decided to buy TSLA 6 months before IPO, when Elon, A'nold and Toyota President made presentation at Google One on saving the Nummi plant.

My strategy on investing: stable, smart management; products people buy; stocks only. (no mutual funds, bonds, etfs, etc--if your company does matching 401k, take it, but don't bank on superior annual yields). Learn about foreign exchange. Read everything you can about the companies. Read all SEC filings on the companies you invest in and all their competitors. Stay away from tech, retail, and financial services. These are iffy. Read about the US economy, about the economy of large foreign countries: China, Japan, Germany, France, UK, Russia, India, and if you have time, Poland, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico. Stay away from precious metals, they are a form of currency, with ill-understood inflation. Stay away from airlines. Stay away from very heavily regulated industries that are utilities (telcos, cable, etc). Stay away from disposable-income consumer products--consumers are fickle.

Sell equal amounts of losses and gains, to limit tax exposures. Don't hold on to a stock for sentimental values. If you can't afford to take the risk of it going to zero tomorrow morning, don't buy. Diversify your portfolio. (I have holdings in 60 companies right now.)

An interesting side-effect of studying the market: choice of programming language makes zero difference. If the company is successful, you will be able to hire people to rewrite it all in whatever language is fastest that day. To quote the Unix philosophy: Make it work correctly first, and make it fast later. Facebook today has a market cap just above $100B (price 41 and change) and got started with PHP. Don't knock PHP. By the way, FB's capitalization is 5 times that of TSLA.

Finally, and oddly, smaller companies tend to yield higher returns (not by much, but some).

bluedevil2k3• 13 years ago

I am totally in the Tesla camp, but to play devil's advocate, isn't profitability the real important number here? Tesla just became profitable, but Porsche is the most profitable car company (http://www.dw.de/porsche-emerges-as-worlds-most-profitable-c...)

devx• 13 years ago

In the grand scheme of things, that's irrelevant for Tesla. Right now it's good for PR, and it's good that it makes at least as much money as the others.

But unlike Tesla, Porsche will never make a mass-market play. Tesla will - at least in the sense that Apple is making a mass-market play in the smartphone market. Tesla may never become the biggest "car company" in the world, although there's a pretty big chance it will become (if it isn't already) the biggest "electric car company" in the world.

Either way, it will be a very important and popular car company, that will get big enough to be able to drag the whole industry after it, and set the standards for the industry.

bnejad• 13 years ago

I'm surprised they are making ~$22 per unit.. I didn't realize car margins were so low. Unless that article means $22,000

lmartel• 13 years ago

The European convention is to use dots in large numbers where Americans use commas. So yes, that's $22000

wbond• 13 years ago

In many European countries a period is the thousands separator and the comma is the decimal separator. So yes, $22k per unit.

zissou• 13 years ago

Porsche is owned by the Volkswagen Group who has a completely different strategy than Tesla. Volkswagen already makes money off makes and models marketed across the spectrum of consumers (from Skoda to SEAT, VW, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, Lamborghini, Buggati) -- all of which are owned by VW.

The Volkswagen Group doesn't get nearly as much press as it should, but I suppose the incumbent doesn't need it -- they already sell hundreds of thousands of vehicles world wide every year.

That being said, Tesla certainly has a long ways to go, but I think they have a good strategy going forward. Not to mention, I think the Model S is a beautiful car.

mbreese3• 13 years ago

VW probably also doesn't want their product lines necessarily linked together in people's minds. I mean, if you're looking to buy a Porsche or Lambo, do you want people thinking VW Beetle?

Same reason why Lexus doesn't play up their Toyota lineage.

So, VW group (and all large manufacturers) necessarily have to limit their press to the individual product lines as opposed to the whole auto group.

001sky• 13 years ago

Porsche was the most profitable auto company prior to the merger, so not sure this is relavant.

Porsche is profitable because (1) they are cost effective to produce; and (2) the effectively sell at well above sticker value, as the options are significantly marked up.

So, their model is very effective in terms of pulling dollars out of the pockets of those in clined already to buy a porsche.

While still leaving a base model within reach for some as well.

pbreit3• 13 years ago

Not really. If Tesla were trying to be profitable (which it is not) it might be. Tesla is in growth mode, trying to sell cars and continue building the infrastructure to support the rollout of the Model X SUV and lower priced sedan.

awwstn• 13 years ago

The most interesting part of this article to me is that the Ford F-Series pickup truck is the nation's top selling automobile.

It makes sense now, but it wouldn't have been my first guess.

bluedevil2k3• 13 years ago

Not just this year, but 24 years straight in the US

speeder• 13 years ago

To showcase Brazil crazy taxes: on our local eBay clone, a new F truck costs 250k USD Oo

jlgreco• 13 years ago

At that point it probably starts to make sense to find "some guys" down at the docks that can help you with some shipping containers...

HeyLaughingBoy• 13 years ago

Which one? the F150 is really the only "mass market" Ford F-series pickup. Once you get into the Super Duty line -- F250 and above -- they are more inclined towards commercial buyers and the price climbs quickly.

Have to say, tho, that my wife's F250 diesel feels like it could tow an aircraft carrier!

protomyth5• 13 years ago

Expect a bit of a spike in 2014 F-150s given Ford is changing it for the 2015 model year. Given some of the changes seem like downgrades to the core audience (e.g. lower payload and towing weights).

gtaylor• 13 years ago

What are the downgrades for? Better gas mileage?

freehunter5• 13 years ago

It really bothers me that auto makers are building pickup trucks to be more mass-market than they already are. The last thing we need is more people driving pickups. If any car should be a niche product, it's a truck.

dkrich• 13 years ago

I toured the Ford factory in Detroit where the F-150 is made a couple of years ago and at the time the assembly line was completely shut down because the mirrors (and only the mirrors) were out of stock and they couldn't resume assembly until they were restocked. Who doesn't think operations are important at a multibillion dollar manufacturing company?

humbyvaldes• 13 years ago

Tesla should make trucks if thats the case :)

auctiontheory• 13 years ago

The title may be literally true, but is very misleading.

Many of the sales booked to Tesla in California are intended for buyers in other states that lack a Tesla dealership (but do have Porsche and Jaguar dealerships).

deltaqueue• 13 years ago

This was my initial thought given the dealership limitations in North Carolina, Virginia, Texas, Minnesota, and New York, but do you know for sure how out-of-state sales work?

I'm asking because the report seems to use registrations and not just sales figures to describe the numbers in California[1]. To my knowledge a registration only occurs in the state where you're going to use the vehicle, but I don't know if the process varies for these trouble states.

[1] http://www.cncda.org/secure/GetFile.aspx?ID=2583

teleclimber• 13 years ago

The article refers to "registrations" in CA. Presumably Teslas sold to out-of-state buyers do not count towards that number.

Anecdotally, whenever I am in the Brentwood/Santa Monica/other nice areas of West LA, Tesla sightings are getting very common. It's like the next Prius around here.

hippee-lee• 13 years ago

I'm up in Westlake Village and it's almost daily. My first grade daughter points them out to me ( I talk to her about cool logos and over such things ).

She will say, "Daddy theres a Tesla logo. " I'll say, "Where and what color." Immediately followed by, " Oh yeah, right you are. Good eye."

pbreit3• 13 years ago

Are you speculating or can you point to some evidence? My understanding is that the numbers report "registrations", not "sales", which would be contrary to your assertion.

imownbey• 13 years ago

This seems like an unfair comparison. While people buy new Porsches and Jaguars when they need them I think a lot of people have been buying Tesla because of the novelty.

This doesn't make this any less impressive, but I am not sure that it is fair to make the comparison of a company which needs to generate novelty year after year (like Jaguar and Porsche) with an entirely novel company (like Tesla).

If Tesla was putting out yearly models than this would be much more news.

ImprovedSilence2• 13 years ago

> While people buy new Porsches and Jaguars when they need them

....meeeeh, nobody really neeeeds a Porsche, they just buy them for the novelty (of sportiness) one could say. I think a Tesla in certain areas (anywhere near a big city) could make a much more practical purchase than a Porsche...

edit: Also, 60k ain't what it used to be. Heck, you'll pay that for a 3-series BMW these days (335i).

level09• 13 years ago

is it fair to compare Tesla sales to Porsche, Jaguar ? aren't these from a different class ?

true_religion2• 13 years ago

Not really, Tesla makes a sports car comparable to the Porsche.

vonskippy• 13 years ago

Obviously you've never driven a Porsche.

Except perhaps for the very bottom of Porsche's product lines, the Tesla isn't even close.

Tesla is for geeks and treehuggers - but anyone into cars takes a quick look and then laughs - it's definitely not a gearheads ride in any way shape or form.

pbreit3• 13 years ago

Porsche and Jaguar both sell very direct competitors to Tesla. Which makes it even more impressive that Tesla's one model is outselling those brand's in their entirety.

sliverstorm4• 13 years ago

It will be more impressive if Tesla sustains the lead. Auto sales are very "bursty", with huge jumps at the first offering of a new model, and the Tesla S is not only a new model, but the first viable electric in its class. So I expect the levels of demand we see (in its class) today, like the surges of floodwaters, are the highest they will be and will dwindle from here.

jeroen• 13 years ago

We already had an arstechnica article about the same news here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6267478

nonchalance• 13 years ago

Old discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6267478

Top two comments were:

"Is anyone else tired of tesla PR and seeing 2 tesla articles here everyday?"

and

"Are these sales to Californians, or does this include sales made in California and delivered to another state because of the dealership issue?"

jlampa• 13 years ago

The article states the numbers are "based on new-vehicle registrations.", which would suggest they are not inflated by out-of-state purchases.

jchrisa2• 13 years ago

Shameless copy/paste of my comment from the earlier article:

My problem with the rah-rah around Tesla is that, good as they might be compared to the status-quo, they are still cars. There's not enough attention paid to the fact that cars and the sedentary lifestyle they encourage are a net-negative for most people. Many of the folks I talk to who'd like to move to an active form of transportation don't because they are scared of being hit by a car. We've effectively ceded huge swaths of public space to single occupancy vehicles, and made it off limits to humans. This is bad for the health of the people in those cars, but also bad for everyone else.

apetrovic• 13 years ago

So, your opinion is that we should ban cars from highways so people can use bicycles to go to work?

BTW, I call bullshit on "folks" you talked to - if one really wants to "move to active form of transportation" one just do it. Instead of sitting in the car and complaining how life isn't fair.

vecinu• 13 years ago

You seem to have ignored the main point of the OP you're responding to.

It is not SAFE to be on a bike on a public road. Do you read the news and notice how almost every week you hear of a bicyclist being hit and/or killed?

I for one do not ride my bike to school because I do not feel SAFE, no matter if I wear a helmet, pads and armor.

jchrisa2• 13 years ago

More like ban cars from neighborhoods. And ban highways from cities.

geargrinder• 13 years ago

If the government gave money to buyers of Porsches like they do for buyers of Teslas these number might be different.

Or better yet, stop taking my tax dollars and giving them to rich people to buy a luxury electric vehicle.

codex• 13 years ago

Tesla offers something these other luxury manufacturers can't: access to California's HOV lanes without meeting the occupancy requirement.

Tesla outsells Porsche, Jaguar, others in California

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