Why Windows 7 is not the answer

http://blog.dustincurtis.com/day-8045-windows-7-is-not-the-answer

by dcurtis • 17 years ago

28 53 17 years ago

blog.dustincurtis.com

pedalpete2• 17 years ago

Dustin is absolutely right that Microsoft needs to figure out a better way of 'what needs to happen automagically, and what doesn't'. The other side of this is of course the mac. With my mac I often feel like it's doing a bunch of things for me, and not letting me know what that is. I think Mac goes to far in the other direction.

pkulak• 17 years ago

Like what, exactly? I'm not trying to be a dick, I just really can't think of anything. All the stuff my Mac does automatically seems to be standard OS stuff that I really don't need to deal with personally each and every time. Like connecting to a wireless network without giving me a giant, sticky notification that it's done so.

dandelany8• 17 years ago

Off the top of my head, automatically setting file-sharing to share your public folder over their AFP protocol, but hiding the ability to share files with Windows computers in an arcane dialog box. To do Windows sharing, you have to click Options under Sharing, and understand that "SMB sharing" is actually secret code for Windows sharing.

And, even though any old Mac can connect to yours, it's impossible (AFAIK) to enable anonymous sharing over SMB, which causes problems with stuff like XBMC.

whacked_new3• 17 years ago

Applications install.

It could be really simple, but it's definitely not obvious: With Windows, you go through the installer. With Linux, you (often) go through the command line. Mac: drag somewhere, run. Where'd it go? Where do other users find it?

The completeness of the installer packages also varies. They don't tell you drag to the same place.

Comfort with all these quirks, regardless of OS, are highly habit-dependent. Once you really know what's going on, that OS is your "answer." To me, the issue in the article is merely about conversion and new customers.

tophat02• 17 years ago

Well I do think 7 is a step in the right direction, but you're right, this dialog is horrible.

You know what I'd like to see? An "Engineering Windows 7" blog entry that explained exactly why Microsoft found it necessary to include this abomination in their flagship product.

iigs3• 17 years ago

There's probably an overarching design requirement that their software not contact MS's servers for privacy reasons.

The buttons should be in a different order, and the wording should be changed, though.

likpok• 17 years ago

As the author noted, this is Release Candidate software. Bugs like this are supposed to get ironed out here before it is released to market.

These kinds of bugs can often be difficult to catch because when I am debugging things, I often click through dialogs without really reading them. Of course they say what they're supposed to (and it makes sense), because I wrote them!

It's like having someone else proof-read a paper. If not, you'll just fill in the holes yourself.

anigbrowl• 17 years ago

It's not a bug, it's a feature. I actually mean that, it strikes a balance between 'sure, do your thing computer' and 'no, I would like to specify exactly what should happen'.

This approach has been built into Windows for a long time and I like it. I have a mix of hardware in my computer and some I configure automagically but some I need to set up manually. I suspect the blogger cited in the OP has never had to do technical support for a living.

nomoresecrets• 17 years ago

Also remember that when Microsoft call it Release Candidate, they mean 'Beta'.

This is because when they used to call this phase Beta, they found that corporate IT depts wouldn't try it.

dhouston• 17 years ago

Probably what happens when no one's in charge and the legal, backwards compatibility, etc. teams have veto power over the UX people.

See also: (re: windows vista shutdown UI)

http://moishelettvin.blogspot.com/2006/11/windows-shutdown-c...

iigs3• 17 years ago

It's nice to see a concrete example of the "design-by-committee" that MS is accused of with windows.

In Windows, the node I was working on was 4 levels removed from the root.

This is terrifying. It sounds like the Windows development process is about to collapse under its own complexity.

dandelany8• 17 years ago

While I agree with you, I'd be interested to know if there are any 'intelligent' solutions to this problem. You can't possibly just have thousands of devs checking into one central SVN repo, can you? Any idea how Apple does it?

makecheck• 17 years ago

The best way to design an error message is to figure out why you need it in the first place, and eliminate that "need" (i.e. you don't display any message). If the proverbial house isn't burning down, the user doesn't need to know. Most messages can be non-modal, tucked away in a conspicuous spot but not immediately stopping whatever the user is doing. Even those can often close themselves, not requiring acknowledgment, ever.

Somewhere along the line, people forgot that computers are supposed to be tools, and decided it was okay to put up with constant interruptions to their work. I swear, using Windows is like raising a small, needy child.

old-gregg• 17 years ago

Nah, it's not just Microsoft, it's the accepted and assumed by default idiotic behavior of windows software. My friends' Logitech mouse driver greets him every morning, it politely asks him if he wishes to "Download the latest incoming messages from Logitech", to what he replies "No, thank you". Every goddamn morning.

jneal• 17 years ago

So tell me, how do we make Windows 7 better? Do we make decisions for our users and then complaints for not offering options? Where is the medium here, and how is such a thing even remotely close to a reason why Windows 7 is not the answer? You answer this dialog once after you first install, and you never see it again if you use recommended settings. So what's so confusing about that?

timtrueman• 17 years ago

Don't make me think.

lisper• 17 years ago

> So tell me, how do we make Windows 7 better?

We? Do you work for Microsoft?

> Do we make decisions for our users and then complaints for not offering options?

That depends on what kind of decision is being made. Whenever you offer a choice it needs to be clear what tradeoff is being made. Why would anyone not want the recommended option? A better dialog would read something like this?

Do you want Windows to automatically download driver software for your devices? This works most of the time, but can cause problems with a few less popular devices.

__ Yes (recommended) __ No, I don't trust you idiots at Microsoft. I want to manage my drivers manually.

Do you want Windows to download realistic icons for your devices? Realistic icons look better, but use more disk space and RAM, and can have a negative impact on performance.

__ Yes, I'm all about the eye candy. __ No, I have the need for speed.

dandelany8• 17 years ago

> Do we make decisions for our users and then complaints for not offering options?

No. You make decisions for your users and then offer them options. Under "Options." Or "Control Panel," as you so bizarrely insist on calling it.

Oh, and you realize that for 90% of your users, "driver software" == Mario Kart.

mynameishere2• 17 years ago

Make a non-idiot mode. When non-idiot mode is activated the following occurs:

#1 All folders show "name" "extension" "size" "date created" "date modified" and nothing else. All alterations made by the user are automatically filtered into the entire filesystem. Don't ever "guess" what a directory is for. Computers are shit at guessing things.

#2 When I try to change a .png extension to .jpg I don't want alerted that this will "make the file unusable". That is an insult to my intelligence.

#3 When I try to delete a file that another process has a lock on you TELL ME WHAT GODDAMNED PROCESS HAS A LOCK ON IT so I can kill it.

#4 The GUI should look like windows 2000, no fussing with silly transparent windows or Mac wanna-be bullshit. I avoid macs for the same reason I avoid the Candyland.

#5 All files are assumed to be text files unless otherwise associated with other applications. That is, if I click on phat.properties, load it into whatever phat.txt would have been loaded into, most likely notepad.

#6 I use notepad more than almost any other application. It's time to start giving it more features. I'll bet there are 100 hackers at microsoft who would love to make notepad into a new emacs.

#7 Port every popular unix utility (grep, locate, sed, whatever) to windows and let me run them from the command prompt.

#8 Switch backslashes to forward slashes.

#9 Bring back qbasic gorilla.

snprbob862• 17 years ago

I detest the idea of a "non-idiot mode" or "expert mode". Software doesn't need to be complicated to be powerful.

#1 Google Docs has a fantastic organizational tool which is much better suited to the task than a traditional file system.

#2 Why are we messing with file names anyway? Flickr doesn't force me to think about this problem.

#3 Why can't I unlink a file instead of deleting it? Why should I have to kill a process?

#4 shrug Beautiful is welcome if you don't suck down my resources too badly.

#5 Again, normal users are forced to interact with file systems far too often.

#6 If you like Emacs so much, why don't you just use Emacs?

#7 PowerShell comes with Windows 7... or you can install Cygwin.

#8 shrug both technically already work nearly everywhere.

You are proposing "solutions" to common problems you have had. Your solutions have a remedy nature to them. You exhibit the traditional Microsoft band-aid mentality. Microsoft's culture is designed around managing complexity. We're damn good at coming up with complex solutions to complex problems. We are very weak at deriving simple solutions to complex problems. However, more importantly, we are very weak at identifying important problems to solve, and hence simplifying the needs for solutions. It seems to me like you would fit right in here. That is not necessarily a good thing.

endtime• 17 years ago

That sounds more like "my extremely personal preferences mode" than "non-idiot mode".

chanux• 17 years ago

Why waiting for microsoft to build these things? Use GNU/Linux.

kingsley_20• 17 years ago

the problem is that you seem to be looking for a solution in the form of a design process, when what you really need is an organizational/political fix. You have wicked smart UI people (http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/). you just need to let them do their jobs.

whacked_new3• 17 years ago

There are some people whose definition of "good" is "Apple." You can never win on this turf: anything that isn't Apple, is bad; anything that is like Apple, is a copycat.

The people who have more useful information are probably those that hop on OSes all the time and spend a majority of their time in pre-7 windows flavors.

I never played with W7, but I would probably be annoyed by that dialog box if I see it in a normal situation. Right now I can see two attacks to this problem.

First, for the config-philic person, allow them to choose during OS install whether they would like to be exposed to configs-galore. For those who don't just go with the defaults and allow them to enable configs-galore themselves later. The (cognitive) memory cost here is 1 item: where to find the option to enable configs-galore.

Second, pop up these kinds of window depending on how close the action is to the OS install. If it is within a few days, my memory of "fresh OS install" is salient and it would not be surprising for me to see config dialogs pop up here and there. If it was over 2 weeks though, I'm most likely coasting already and would hate to see something disrupt my flow.

Other than that, though, that dialog box looks fine to me. I don't find it the least bit confusing. In fact, the choices it gives are quite complete and pleasing as such.

/Mac user on a daily basis.

donniefitz2• 17 years ago

I have installed this version of W7 on a few machines and never encountered this message. Not to say it didn't happen, but it seems to be an exception and not the rule.

It seems to me that ruling out an OS because of a single, albeit lame, dialog box is serious hyperbole. Windows 7 is a serious advancement for Microsoft by any account.

This is a RC and it needs tuning. I'm not sure I know of an OS that "is the answer". I'm not looking for an identity in an OS. I'm looking for a useful tool. If you are looking for the answer in a computer operating system, you are going to be seriously disappointed.

Get your expectations in order and give it a fair shake.

seshagiric2• 17 years ago

Personally I think this is one more "why lose a chance to bad mouth MS" kind of post.

Like pedalpete points, its a design choice: Windows seems to dump more decisions to the user whereas Mac is on the other extreme.

Of course the dialogs like that are silly but why judge Win7 based on that. I am using Win7 since beta and my Toshiba tecra has never been faster. The setup took less than 20 mins and no crash since I installed in Jan. No driver availability issues like with Vista.

If you are a Windows guy, I do think Win7 is the answer.

GHFigs8• 17 years ago

Of course the dialogs like that are silly but why judge Win7 based on that.

Because the dialogs are part of Windows 7, and they represent a distinct user interaction paradigm that exists throughout the operating system. Why shouldn't you judge an OS that you will be using regularly based on how it is designed to interact with you?

seshagiric2• 17 years ago

Its not like each and every dialog you get in Win7 is meaningless.

psyklic• 17 years ago

I agree with the poster, but unfortunately since Windows tries to cater to everyone they often cater to noone. If they put the dialog in, people complain. If they leave it out, people complain. I only know what would make me happy, not all of the other Windows users.

tow21• 17 years ago

Actually, I think the biggest problem with this dialog box is not that it's present, it's that the question makes no sense.

As best I can tell, it's actually two questions merged into one, though the answers are still separated out, except the answer to the second question seems to depend on the first; but the first question isn't simply yes/no, it's yes/no(A)/no(B)/no(C), and by the time I've finished trying to parse the question and the proffered answers I've given up caring.

I can guess at what it's asking, but I'm a software developer. How is a normal end-user supposed to make an even halfway-informed choice?

If Windows is going to push these choices out in front of me, it needs to ask questions users can understand.

Why Windows 7 is not the answer

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