Younger Than The Xbox 360

http://www.marco.org/2013/05/28/younger-than-the-xbox-360

by mh_ • 13 years ago

88 84 13 years ago

georgemcbay2• 13 years ago

These are basically random thoughts spurred by the points the article makes as opposed to direct statements about the content of the article...

Microsoft always intended to use games as a stepping stone to becoming a broader entertainment play. They were talking about this publicly as far back as the Xbox 1 (the former Xbox 1, now known as the Xbox 1 that isn't the Xbox One) in the 2001 time frame.

I'm fine with that strategy and even encourage it, but as a gamer I'm distraught with other decisions they seem to have made (it is impossible to tell what decisions they've actually made from rumors or misreporting because they are failing on the PR/messaging for specifics of the Xbox One on a spectacularly epic scale currently).

In the long run, the Xbox 360 is kind of the odd duck of the Xbox line in terms of hardware architecture considering the old Xbox 1 was x86 based and basically a closed PC, just like the new Xbox One. Of course, the 360 happened to occur over the time period that Live proved that a full online experience for a console should be considered an essential component. (I just wish they'd stop raising the cost of Live while also increasing the amounts of ads it throws at you (without raising the value to suit), and stop charging for things that are free elsewhere (eg. Netflix, etc), and start using some of the mountains of money they earn from Live to provide dedicated gaming servers, etc).

The Wii U is actually a pretty nice device. I have one. I'll buy pretty much any system Nintendo puts out just to play their first party games, at least until they're forced to go the route that Sega did. But anyway, the remote touchscreen gamepad "second screen" thing is pretty cool I love using it for Hulu, Netflix and Amazon Instant. Being able to redirect the video play to the gamepad device's screen when the TV is otherwise in use is really nice, and it really makes things like searching a breeze compared to using a more traditional remote. Yes, you can achieve the same basic sorts of things with other consoles plus an external device like a tablet via things like SmartGlass, but with the Wii U it Just Works without having to dick around with anything.

angersock• 13 years ago

The 360 was a completely reasonable step for the series--at the time, recall, there weren't really many x86 chips at the price/performance/power spot that was needed for a gaming rig.

Microsoft went to IBM and shopped around for cores, and got a bastard chip spinoff of the Cell PPEs--one with six logical threads of execution and a fairly normal programming model. This gave good vector performance and had many threads--at launch, there weren't cheap x86 chips that could do that.

lukifer2• 13 years ago

Nintendo's success has always been driven by games, not hardware. While much of the punditry surrounding the U has legitimacy, it's failing mostly due to a lack of compelling first-party titles.

There was never a chance that the U would sell in the same numbers as the first Wii; the "non-gamer gamer" moment has come and gone. But if it had launched with a new Zelda, a new (real) Mario, Mario Party, Mario Kart, Smash Bros. (the list goes on), they'd be selling moderately well, with the game revenue as the cherry on top. Hopefully it won't be too late by the time those titles trickle onto the platform over the next year or two.

adventured• 13 years ago

The non-gamer gamer moment didn't pass. It moved from consoles to smart phones, tablets and Facebook / online gaming (which had a mere 10 million users at the time of the Wii's release).

The non-gamer gamer market is bigger than ever before, and will continue to expand.

gcb0• 13 years ago

all of nintendo power WAS in games. for a long time now, it's on TV series and Mangas/movies adaptations.

If it wasn't for pokemon and such titles, they would be long gone.

They tried the same model in the west trying to license every movie game, but it never caught on. You still can see them trying with a few disney titles.

anyway, i'd say the ONLY thing killing nintendo is their closed grasp of their developer program. If they were more open, they would have lots and lots of great innovative titles for the wiiU launch, and people would actually know the wiiU is a console, and not another weird controller such as the balance board thingy.

When the original xbox (no gamer call it xbox 1, at least before the current xbox one) was launching, microsoft released the development framework to everyone and their mother! heck i even was invited by a group that was going to show microsoft some game ideas and get $100k scot free! Think they ended up launching a minor puzzle game (their FPS idea was rejected, obviously)

Steko• 13 years ago

Nintendo thinks it won the last round and developed the Wii U in a vacuum, expecting success only to find out the world had moved on.

Sony thinks it was robbed of victory (or at least it's usual dominance) by MS in the last round and is eager for a straight up rematch.

MS has all the momentum so at least they can pretend they won the last round and seem primarily worried about competition from other entrants (mainly Apple, Google and Samsung).

alexPetrov• 13 years ago

A new (real) Mario?

Are you serious? Do you mean a 2D Mario with actual effort put into it? Because that's Nintendo's biggest series in the ones you listed. Also, all of those games were available on the Gamecube (excepting 2D Mario), and Wii U is basically selling at Gamecube levels. I think it's important to note that the philosophy Nintendo has with the Wii U is more their Gamecube philosophy than Wii philosophy. Look at what Iwata had to say during the respective console cycles. I agree that it's the games, but more specifically it's their lack of interest in focusing on the games that sell systems (hence their horrible treatment of 2D Mario).

I'm inclined to believe that after three years of the Wii being sold out in stores, Nintendo went straight back to the strategies that led to the abysmal sales of the Gamecube. This led to significantly lower sales for the rest of the Wii's life and led to Gamecube-level sales for its successor, the Wii U.

ctdonath• 13 years ago

the former Xbox 1, now known as the Xbox 1 that isn't the Xbox One

Huh?

Ok, I know I'm out of touch with console gaming ... but ... Huh?

moskie2• 13 years ago

He's just making a joke about the naming of the Xbox consoles. What would you call the original Xbox (that came out in 2001)? Some might have called it the Xbox 1. But now Microsoft decided to call the new console the "Xbox One." So, what's the proper name of the Xbox that came out in 2001?

georgemcbay2• 13 years ago

Exactly!

But to clarify:

In 2001, Microsoft released a game console known as the "Xbox".

In 2005, Microsoft released a follow-up game console known as the "Xbox 360". To differentiate the original "Xbox" from the "Xbox 360", it was common for console gamers to call the first "Xbox" the "Xbox 1". As in, "Remember playing Halo LAN on the Xbox 1? Good times!". "Xbox" alone generally meant you were talking about the current "Xbox", the "Xbox 360". Adding the "1" made things clear that you were talking about the original.

In 2013, Microsoft revealed (but hasn't yet released) another follow-up game console known as the "Xbox One".

shocks• 13 years ago

First came the Xbox, then the Xbox 360, and the last Xbox is called the Xbox One. Hence the confusion. :P

alphang• 13 years ago

I prefer Siracusa's original article. It's wider-spanning, less dismissive, and a perspective that is informed by tech, hardcore gaming, and gamers' Nintendo sentimentality.

columbo• 13 years ago

I believe 2007-2008 represents the end of one era and the beginning of another. The changes that happened during that time were huge.

w1ntermute2• 13 years ago

Gotta love how he casually slips Tumblr and Instapaper in the list. Tumblr, I can understand, but Instapaper's influence outside of the technorati is highly overestimated by the technorati.

smallegan• 13 years ago

Is his blog read by anyone outside of the technorati? Seems like a relevant item to add to the list.

runjake2• 13 years ago

He slipped that in there, because the entirety of his audience are aware of what Tumblr and Instapaper are. You're being silly.

w1ntermute2• 13 years ago

He claims it's a list of "notable things". Instapaper does not fall into that category, no matter how you look at it.

hkmurakami2• 13 years ago

He also slips in Snakes on a Plane, so we should infer some jest.

mcmire• 13 years ago

"I’m Marco Arment: creator of Instapaper..."

hkmurakami2• 13 years ago

I see problems with all three approaches. The Wii U depends mostly on casual gamers, but the best casual gaming device for most people is the iPad Mini.

Never underestimate the power of Pokemon though. That alone can potentially change the tides.

ebbv2• 13 years ago

Pokemon is mostly a mobile/handheld title. The new Pokemon X and Y games are for the 3DS, not the Wii U.

The Wii U may make a comeback when an original Mario or Zelda game comes out for it.

The mistake Nintendo continues to make (which it made previously with the Game Cube) is releasing a new console without a "Oh my god I have to play this!" game.

So far Sony and Microsoft have not announced "Oh my god I have to play this!" games, either. At least, IMHO.

tankbot2• 13 years ago

I have to disagree somewhat. The Wii released with Wii Sports which, despite being more a collection of mini-games, was definitely an "Oh my god I have to play this!" game.

When everyone you know, including your 85 year-old grandfather, is getting in on the bowling/tennis action you know Nintendo did something right.

bitwize3• 13 years ago

The Wii U may make a comeback when an original Mario or Zelda game comes out for it.

Screw Mario; what about Sonic? Sonic: Lost World looks like the coolest and most innovative thing they've done with that long-beleaguered franchise in well over a decade, and harks back to the radical experimentation they were trying with Sonic X-Treme in the mid-90s. It's my "oh my God, I have to play that" game, anyway.

justinhj• 13 years ago

I count New Mario Bros WiiU in that category. Or do you mean new as in an order of magnitude bigger like the jump that Mario 3d was when N64 came out?

jsemrau• 13 years ago

Never understood why people follow this notion. All gaming consoles are for casual gaming (relax on the couch, turn on, play , stop). The number of FPS' don't make a good indicator to distinguish between "hardcore" and casual.

UberMouse• 13 years ago

I would hardly say the people who play Call of Duty 12h a day when a new one comes out are using their console for "casual gaming"

NoPiece• 13 years ago

I think there is a meaningful distinction to be drawn between the "casual" xbox strategy for the last couple years with Kinect focused games and the core game orientation it had for the first few years after it launched.

slantyyz3• 13 years ago

>> The number of FPS' don't make a good indicator to distinguish between "hardcore" and casual.

You are so right. It's annoying that the standard for "gamer" has become FPS players.

In my day, hardcore gamer meant you could have been into any genre, whether it be Japanese style RPGs, Japanese style shooters (I'm talking Raiden or Gunstar Heroes, not FPS), or fighting games.

The only reason why I keep a PS3 around is for stuff like Street Fighter and King of Fighters -- stuff that a "modern gamer" (i.e., gamers from the 360 era and forward) would probably call niche.

gordaco3• 13 years ago

The distinction between "hardcore" and "casual" is blurry, but even more important, seems to be heavily emphasised by self-called "hardcore" gamers and widely ignored by most "casual" gamers. Self-called is the key term here.

With very few exceptions, most of the heaviest gamers I know play games from almost every genre, and the more genres they play, the less likelier it is that they call themselves "hardcore".

Tiktaalik• 13 years ago

Game industry outsiders often overlook how much console sales are driven by quality games and how often a suddenly popular game can completely change the market.

Consider for example how the Monster Hunter series became a cultural phenomenon in Japan and made the Playstation Portable incredibly successful. In contrast Sony's Monster Hunterless followup system, the Playstation Vita, has been a failure.

Of course it's impossible to predict which games will become phenomenons (though Nintendo seems to strike gold more often than others) and so when predicting game industry fortunes you have to make a prediction ignoring the possibility of a random breakout title, but then footnote that "of course anything could happen."

fuzzywalrus• 13 years ago

"And the Xbox One’s heavily pushed smart-TV integration features seem to be designed for an imaginary world in which people browse the web on their TVs instead of the (non-Microsoft) smartphone in their pocket. "

I don't think I've read a more accurate summery of the Xbox One than the above quote.

untog2• 13 years ago

As someone with a PC connected to their TV, I beg to differ. My housemates and I use it all the time to browse the web- place orders on Seamless, use YouTube, even use Amazon Instant without having to use a slow, remote-based interface.

I'm not saying that many people do this, but I'm saying many would.

slantyyz3• 13 years ago

You're right. I think it's quite possible that the reason why nobody surfs on their TV is that nobody has made it an enjoyable experience yet.

Back in the days when we had to use WAP to get web access on phones, I'm sure nobody imagined that we'd be doing desktop style browsing on the small screens of our phones.

Even having PDAs/phones with great screens sucked. I had a Toshiba e800 PocketPC with a VGA screen, but browsing on that thing sucked. And then in 2007, along comes Apple with phone having a less dense screen than my e800 but a vastly better browsing experience. And now, with awesome browsing experiences available on all smartphones, people have trouble remembering how the Internet on a phone used to suck horribly.

zhobbs• 13 years ago

This is the line that stood out to me as someone who misunderstands the strategy completely.

Obviously browsing the web on a TV is not a good experience. But using apps could be great. They demo'd skype and a fantasy sports app, and both look like great use cases. As we all know, the Netflix app is one of the best reasons to own a console. TV apps will happen when someone comes along with a good development environment, reasonable distribution terms, and a large volume of users.

moskie2• 13 years ago

> the Xbox One’s heavily pushed smart-TV integration features seem to be designed for an imaginary world in which people browse the web on their TVs instead of the (non-Microsoft) smartphone in their pocket.

This overlooks a use-case that is common in my home: browsing the web with others in the room. It happens all the time in my living room that there are multiple people present and we want to look up something online, or share something with the group. Yes, we could pass around or huddle in front of a tablet or phone, but using the HTPC is the best shared-experience solution.

It's for reasons like this that I'm (so far) heavily leaning towards the Xbox One as my preferred choice as my nextgen console. If it's as fluid of an experience as they led us to believe during the unveiling (which is a big if), the Xbox One will become the #1 used device in my home. It will be the best way to view content in my living room, without having to hunt for remotes or wireless keyboards or switching inputs. And yes, it will also play triple-a video games. Sign me up.

rapind• 13 years ago

Are you seriously trying to convince us that while you're in-person sharing (shudder), your spouse / kids / siblings aren't in reality busy instagramming on their phones?

TeMPOraL• 13 years ago

Ah, Xbox 360. I love it for the unbreakable power supply unit that does excellent work powering DIY 3D printers worldwide :).

6ren2• 13 years ago

All 3 strategies may be fatal - it's just that only the Wii U has been released.

gordaco3• 13 years ago

Looking at the huge backlash against the XBox One in most gaming forums, it seems so, although there is a strong self-selection bias there.

6ren2• 13 years ago

Yet, people panned the iPod and iPad too.

But my reasoning against PS4/Xbox One is that gaming PCs are not selling well; phones/tablets are. The latter will be sudden death to consoles.

ojr• 13 years ago

> I expect the PS4 and Xbox One to both sell well. But I can’t confidently predict that either will outsell its predecessor.

PS2 is the best-selling video game console to date http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_conso...

300bps• 13 years ago

How long can Sony bleed money from their electronics division?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/business/global/sonys-brea...

Justsignedup• 13 years ago

Well said. The guys at Nintendo didn't realize that the WiiU will just cater to the KIDs who are mainly playing the dozens of iPad games.

The Wii was truly innovative. Everyone want it and to play it. Adults enjoyed it, they played with their kids. I remember my co-workers raving about them playing bowling with the family every night.

I see that not in the WiiU.

Pxtl4• 13 years ago

I think the WiiU was Nintendo's attempt to port the interface of their wildly popular DS console into the living room. The two-screen (one touch, one not) interface, the button layout - everything DS is in the Wii U. And it was designed with only a single controller in-mind - group gaming would be using the old Wiimotes.

Basically, a return to the hardcore world they'd abandoned with the Wii, taking what they'd learned from the DS and bringing it over.

The device seems to be a half-hearted move back towards core gamers, but they kind of got lost in the middle and got interest from nobody. Perhaps it's doing better in Japan where there's more room for that middle content - for complicated, elaborate overwrought single-player experiences without screaming about hardware power.

primigenus• 13 years ago

You know what else is younger than the Xbox 360? 7 year olds, a huge part of the incoming audience for this console generation which will probably last another 10 years, so until they're nearly adults.

Today's 7 year olds grew up in a world where Xbox, Playstation, Wii, Facebook, Android and iPad are a normal part of their universe. There's nothing novel or special about them. If this generation of consoles finds its audience with this age group like the Super NES did for me when I was growing up, the Xbox One, PS4 and Wii U will be much-loved despite their strategies, flaws, cloud computing, DRM or achievements. They will just be loved if they have good games.

We're all cynics who can look back and compare now to then, exclaiming how Facebook and Apple have stolen the market. But for 7 year olds, the world is the world, and they're only getting started. I envy them for the ability to be naive about this stuff. :-)

jrajav• 13 years ago

This is exactly what I thought the article would be about, based on the title.

b3b0p• 13 years ago

Except we can still play our SNES and NES. Due to the fragility of the systems and supposed rumors it is most likely today's 7 year olds won't be able to play their Xbox or Playstation when they are our age, sadly.

They sure don't make games and systems like they used to.

jonnathanson2• 13 years ago

It's not just the fragility of the hardware, but also the increasingly firm stance against backwards compatibility.

No doubt this is driven by publishers, who'd rather focus on big topline profits on new releases than double-dip (or triple-dip) old titles. There's less and less ROI in investing the time, resources, and manpower to build emulation for old console hardware, or to get developers to do the same for their old games.

That being said, I predict we'll see a golden age of backwards compatibility and cross-platform titling within a few console generations. Not for folks like you and me, whose old (by now, ancient!) games are evolutionary dead-ends. But for the 7-year-olds of today, whose consoles are basically just fancy PCs in shiny shells -- and whose games are going to be built very similarly, regardless of platform, and distributed digitally.

majormajor• 13 years ago

I can't play my SNES. My N64 only turns on about 1 time out of 10, too.

Thank goodness for emulators.

Dylan168072• 13 years ago

Bing? Really? Come on, a rebranding doesn't make something new.

seabrookmx• 13 years ago

That list at the beginning of the article really is an eye opener.

That said, I don't agree with his take on consoles. Though I'm a little unimpressed with the Wii U, "almost changed nothing" is an exaggeration. HD Video, tablet controller, improved online functionality, etc. are all big to most gamers.

Also "the best casual gaming device for most people is the iPad Mini" may be true, but that's not in my mind what the Wii was good at. Wii was one of the best party-game consoles ever made (IMO only beat by the N64, however PS1/2 and XBox were great as well). Online gaming is more convenient for hardcore gamers, but if you just wanna have a few drinks and some pizza in a buddy's basement, nothing rivals Mario Kart or Smash Bros.

I'm a die hard PC gamer, but as soon as Smash Bros. drops for Wii U I'll be buying one. Halo is the only other exclusive title I can think of that has this kind of notoriety.

Pxtl4• 13 years ago

I'm constantly shocked at how completely Nintendo's competition has abandoned the field of couch gaming. Sony hangs in there with the various Little Big Planet titles, but otherwise the industry seems to ignore the ocean of distance between Call of Duty and Carnival Game Pack 4. Even Capcom made some absolutely stellar entries in this genre back on the Dreamcast - Powerstone 2 is the only thing that comes close to the awesome mayhem of Super Smash in a 4-player brawl.

ecdavis• 13 years ago

> And the Xbox One’s heavily pushed smart-TV integration features seem to be designed for an imaginary world in which people browse the web on their TVs instead of the (non-Microsoft) smartphone in their pocket.

This really jumped out at me as a silly statement to make.

Isn't the general idea of innovation that you imagine what people might want or need and then you build it? Why is it misguided for Microsoft to be trying something new that they think people will like?

My experience with browsing the web on a Smart TV is that opening the browser was a hassle, the interface was awkward to use (buggy on-screen keyboard), it was extremely slow, seemed to give me mobile versions of sites and - for some reason - was unable to stream content smoothly. If I had to guess as to why people don't browse the web on their TVs, it would be because the technology sucks. Mobile phones had browsers for years before the mobile web really took off. TVs could be the same. A few use cases that I can think of from my immediate family:

* Streaming web content while doing something else. Watching online guitar lessons while playing along, for instance.

* Watching TV while using another application. Tweeting while you watch chat shows, Skyping with friends while you watch a movie, creating animated .gifs on the fly and posting them to Tumblr.

* Browsing in a group. Huddling around a screen and/or passing a device from person to person is sub-optimal.

* Quick, voice-initiated browsing or searching. Currently performed using phones/tablets, this could easily spread to televisions if the technology existed. Pause your movie, open a browser, find a restaurant that delivers and order food without going hunting for your phone.

Pxtl4• 13 years ago

This is why I'm really disappointed in how Google kinda half-assed the Google TV thing. I want to see somebody get out in front of Microsoft with this... the Ouya is too focused on gaming, and the various TV-stick android devices are too small-potatoes. I want to see somebody like LG or Samsung notice this gap and make a nice set-top Android device... copy the PS Move interface so the user has a nice mouse-pointer/game-controller and a camera pointed at them for Skype. Just make the whole device a little set-top camera looking thing.

Younger Than The Xbox 360

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