Flat design, yada yada. Here's what I need from iOS 7 as a developer

https://medium.com/design-ux/b5dd7968753f

by davidkatz • 13 years ago

13 52 13 years ago

idan• 13 years ago

What about android-style permissions on install (versus making users jump through four "allow access to…" choices)

__chrismc• 13 years ago

I disagree. As someone who's gone back and forth between platforms several times, I much prefer the iOS system. It's more button taps for me, yes, but I find it clearer and I'm more likely to check what it's asking for. It's also more granular... I can allow access to my camera, but not to contacts for example. Android, by contrast, gives me a long list of "stuff" to accept and I have to allow access to all of it. Admittedly it has got a bit easier to check that list in the latest version of the Play Store, but it's still not ideal.

My favourite system for requesting permissions is actually Facebook's, which lies somewhere between these two - give me the full list, but let me "turn off" certain items if I want.

davidkatz14• 13 years ago

I think that most users aren't that well equipped to make these kind of decisions. How could they know how critical contacts or location permissions are to the product? I think users need to make a trust/don't trust call on each app, and Android does this well.

PanMan3• 13 years ago

I don't agree Push shouldn't need access and "– if a user doesn’t like their notificaitons, they know they can delete the app". There is some apps that I like to use, but don't want to allow to wake me at 3AM because they think something is important. The app can still work without being allowed to send pushes.

davidkatz14• 13 years ago

The thing is, a lot of apps can't work without push, or work a lot worse without push, and I think users aren't well equipped to decide in a few seconds.

I think you can always find a case for more granular control. Say, if iOS enabled you to control the camera access or the microphone access for each app, we could find some class of users which might benefit from it. The question is, at what price?

krichman4• 13 years ago

False analogy. The camera and microphone aren't readily available to non-running apps, whereas push notifications are. Push notifications can also interrupt other running applications.

Allowing them globally is a far greater burden on users than asking once when the app opens the first time. If your app cannot work without push it needs to fail gracefully, end of story.

soemarko2• 13 years ago

> The thing is, a lot of apps can't work without push, or work a lot worse without push, and I think users aren't well equipped to decide in a few seconds.

Umm, No. For me, it's an easy choice. If it's productivity app, push please. If it's a game, nope. I couldn't care less if my friend need me to visit her farm in the middle of the day, while I might enjoy the game when I'm in the john.

I even wish the local notification follow the push notification rules.

drawkbox• 13 years ago

None of these will happen.

- Push notifications the question is asked up front, good enough. Later on you can ask them to turn it on for benefits, that means notifications have to be worth it. This is the only way to control spammy abusers of notifications.

- I agree 30% is high for physical goods but you'll have to raise prices on iOS. We are sharecroppers on a platform that we didn't build, they built it, it is the new normal. It's either feudal or sharecropping but that is what platforms can do and will. Smart competitors would lower their take (Play!, Amazon, Windows, BB) but they won't because it is greed and that is the new norm, just following the Apple script. Until there is competition here on the fees/take noone will budge.

- Profile photos are available in plenty of places, gravatar, facebook, g+, etc. Maybe there is a startup that wants to aggregate all these and you can easily call that service. Doesn't need to be in the OS level. It would be great if profile photos had some common standard but everyone is building walled gardens and not sharing.

dakrisht• 13 years ago

Yeap. No chance. I agree with most, these are three items that won't improve the experience at all for user/dev.

acqq• 13 years ago

As a user, I am very against: "No More Push Notification Permissions"

As long as I can select, I'll allow Push Notification only for one or two applications that I really want to interrupt me (e.g. some messaging client that I want to depend on -- even other messaging clients should keep quiet until I want to "chat"). All other apps should be forbidden by default to notify me of anything.

davidkatz14• 13 years ago

I understand the problem of spam in notifications, but my question is, what's wrong with deleting an app that spams you, or not installing it in the first place if you don't trust their use of push notifications?

jvzr3• 13 years ago

Maybe I want to play that great game everyone recommends, and yet not receive their f*cking marketing push?

gmac• 13 years ago

what's wrong with deleting an app that spams you

If it already woke me at 3am, lots.

or not installing it in the first place if you don't trust their use of push notifications

How am I supposed to form an opinion as to my trust or otherwise in this company/developer before I've even installed their app?

krichman4• 13 years ago

Why don't we err in favor of the user instead of the developer? It's bad enough that they cannot get apps from anywhere but the App Store, give them a break.

vacri• 13 years ago

I find it hard to fathom why you seem insistant on an "all or nothing" approach being suitable for the entire marketplace.

lardissone• 13 years ago

The problem is not with spammy applications, but with others that you don't need notifications at all. I don't know, new Google's Hangouts, I don't want to receive notifications, but I don't want to delete it, because I may use it sometime. Also, you're thinking as a developer. As a developer that cares on the user, so you probably are thinking that your app will have internal notification settings, about frequency and which to notify, but in the real world it's not a standard, sadly.

tomwilson• 13 years ago

You could still disable them via the notification centre settings in Settings.app.

I think what the OP is saying is not to remove the permissions settings totally, but just to have it 'default to on'.

The way it works now is so many people have been burned by stupid apps sending useless crap that when the app launches and ask if they want to receive notifications - they just immediately say no.

objclxt• 13 years ago

One of the reasons Apple doesn't want to get involved in the whole physical product payments area is there are a number of additional regulatory and liability issues.

But I don't think you have to be lumbered with PayPal - there are lots of great options for taking payment for physical products through apps. Stripe even have an out of the box UI layer for iOS to handle credit card payments, and they'll only charge you 2.5%.

I admit some providers (like Stripe) are currently geographically restricted, but that's going to change in the short to mid-term. Going forward there's lots of potential outside of Apple.

davidkatz14• 13 years ago

Yeah. I'm not saying that Apple is the only option, but surely an Apple option is theoretically better than Stripe. Entering credit card details on a phone keyboard isn't great, no matter how well executed.

Even when having the option of using Stripe, I'm not sure I'd take it over PayPal today.

coldtea3• 13 years ago

>But I don't think you have to be lumbered with PayPal - there are lots of great options for taking payment for physical products through apps. Stripe even have an out of the box UI layer for iOS to handle credit card payments, and they'll only charge you 2.5%.

US only (and UK recently IIRC), so mostly useless for an international business.

jon-wood• 13 years ago

If you want people to approve notifications don't just throw up a permission dialog at startup, let them use your app for a bit, and when they make an action that will cause notifications to be needed ask them then after telling them why you want to use push.

Saying "you can just delete the app" seems to be missing the point somewhat. There are many games that I enjoy playing, but I don't want them sending me a message about having a free coin while I'm trying to sleep.

davidkatz14• 13 years ago

I've done all of that, and it solves some of the problem, but still falls short. Ultimately, my experience is that users just aren't well equipped to decide if notifications are worth it or not. My notifications are silent (no sound), and relevant ("Your order has shipped!"), but people wouldn't know it. When they see a request for push notifications, they assume they're going to get free coin promotions, which is a shame.

eertami• 13 years ago

>Push notifications don’t need a permissions process.

Shouldn't happen and won't happen. You're arguing that you know better than the people who are actually using your app when chances are, you do not.

davidkatz14• 13 years ago

I'd wager to say that I do. I'll give you a concrete example. People order goods, and I want to send them a "Your order has shipped!" notification. People who paid for something want to know that it has shipped and is on route to them. When I give them a push notifications permissions dialogue, they assume I'm going to bomb them with promotional material. I'm not, and they're missing out on a better experience.

One workaround is to better explain what notifications are for, but I've thrown days of work at designing better notifications permissions funnels. Lovely graphics, succinct messages that explain exactly what you're going to get, and it helps a little, but not enough. People are so negatively impressed by notifications, they often almost reflexively deny permissions.

PanMan3• 13 years ago

And you think allowing all pushes will fix this? I assume it will only make it worse. Not for your app, but by all the other apps that will send a million pushes.

coldtea3• 13 years ago

>But Apple – if a user doesn’t like their notificaitons, they know they can delete the app. Push notifications don’t need a permissions process.

So it never occured to the author that a user might like an app and STILL don't want push notifications from it?

Jesus...

davidkatz14• 13 years ago

Author here. Of course it occurred to me, but the problem is that users often can't predict if they want notifications or not, or how critical notifications are to the product. I'll give you a real world example from another permissions process - location.

One of the apps I work on is a neighborhood market place. It's all about seeing what people are selling around you, and requires location. The name of the app is roughly 'neighborhood', the marketing materials call it out in big letters, the permissions message clearly explains why the app needs location access. Still, people reflexively see a permissions dialogue and deny. Then the app doesn't work, and they contact support asking why.

coldtea3• 13 years ago

>Then the app doesn't work, and they contact support asking why.

Then the app, when loaded, should nag them to re-enable location permissions for it to work.

tombell• 13 years ago

If you built an app knowing it NEEDS push notifications on a platform where it's optional for the user to enable/disable, you failed as a developer. The application should be able to function either way. Users deny getting their location? Ask them to input a location instead.

lucian1900• 13 years ago

One could still disable just the notifications for that app, which is already possible.

digitalengineer• 13 years ago

"Categories" in Push notifications would help. The same as with most mailinglists. Let me check on/off what I'd like to receive and what I don't want so see. E.g. 'yes' for new functions, status and progress of the App and my order, 'no' for commercial offers and stuff.

matteodepalo• 13 years ago

The problem with push notifications is that they drain a lot of battery. I enabled push notifications only for the applications that I really care about, like Mailbox or Facebook Messages. I just don't want other trivial applications to drain my battery.

PanMan3• 13 years ago

That's just not true (on iOS). Your phone has one connection to the (apple) server, the amount of messages send has very little influence. Only apps that run in the background (mostly location and voice) can drain your battery when not running.

rdl• 13 years ago

The only thing I want is great credential/auth handling, in the device. Maybe biometrics on the phone, too. 4-digit passcodes are a failure, since it's possible to try an unlimited number (bypassing the delete-on-10-failures), even with physical possession required.

If I got a bonus, it would be the ability to select overrides for internal apple apps (Mail sucks, Chrome > Safari, a phone client which supports SIP and crypto, a messages app which supports crypto) so other apps would use it, too.

Extra super bonus is iCloud inside the firewall/self hosted on OSX.

Flat design, yada yada. Here's what I need from iOS 7 as a developer

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