Amazon Staff Meetings: “No Powerpoint”

http://conorneill.com/2012/11/30/amazon-staff-meetings-no-powerpoint/

by raymondh • 13 years ago

306 120 13 years ago

k-mcgrady• 13 years ago

I'm guessing you copy/pasted the title in from the blog but you should probably remove the CAPS.

I like this way of doing meetings, I haven't heard of anything similar before. Although I've always hated slide shows. Do I read the bullet points? Listen to the presenter? Does the presenter read the bullets and go into detail on each one? What does it mean if there is a bullet but the presenter doesn't mention it during the presentation? There's too much going on at once. A good slide show can work very well (using a slide to illustrate your point with a graph etc.) but most people can't create good slide shows.

yareally• 13 years ago

Not the OP, but the last time I submitted an article on HN, it auto corrected the title to match what the link said (which was much more vague than the title I gave). Perhaps HN auto corrects verbatim, including caps.

afreak• 13 years ago

This reminds me of when I was back in school and the instructor would have stuff in Powerpoint on the projector screen. It was only interesting when a photograph or image would be displayed (this was an East Asian history class) but the rest of the time was just me listening to him speak about the topic rather than paying attention to the slides at hand.

Why? Because he was pretty much just narrating what he already had on the screen.

I have always found that Powerpoint is useless for displaying anything in a meeting or seminar and yet I still find myself doing that when I myself choose to give a presentation. Additionally, I have yet to see anything that replaces it well enough that also mimics the speed and simplicity of the application, and I also find more value in just listening to the person rather than seeing what is on the screen.

jrdn• 13 years ago

I had so many professors that just read me the powerpoints. I would literally miss nothing from the lecture if I just downloaded the slides after every class, but no, attendance was mandatory. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to know that I'm still paying off an education I could've gotten most of by reading a few pages of bullet points every week.

pestaa• 13 years ago

Had to upvote you for the being in the same boat. Even worse though when the slide is two lines and contains the following only:

                       [Title]
    
    * [Title]

I'm not kidding, I've seen this a couple of times. And worse yet is that there is literally no extra content to listen to in the class.

(Not all courses of mine are like this one, though.)

iyulaev3• 13 years ago

If you can get the content of the speech from a PowerPoint deck - the deck author is "doing it wrong."

kingnight• 13 years ago

Should the title of the article match the visual type of the article... or ignore the 'text-transform: uppercase' css. I vote the latter :-)

pshc• 13 years ago

Oh hey! This is exactly what Edward Tufte taught us at his course the other week. Now I'm curious as to who originated this practice...?

cma• 13 years ago

Don't know how old this is, but it has been there a good many years: http://norvig.com/Gettysburg/

jasoncrawford2• 13 years ago

Yeah, I think this practice originated at Amazon not long after Edward Tufte's article “The Cognitive Style of PowerPoint” was published. I think I heard that Bezos read that article and was influenced by it.

xaritas• 13 years ago

Probably true. The reason I was introduced to Tufte is when he was invited to give a talk at an Amazon Fishbowl (informal, internal lecture/music series). This had a strong stamp of Jeff-approval. I don't think that this particular practice was adopted immediately but Bezos plays a long game and this was probably an opening move.

ics• 13 years ago

I'll just bask in the irony of having my drawing professors presenting some of Tufte's work to a class full of architects... in PowerPoint.

damoncali• 13 years ago

Sun Microsystems banned PowerPoint years ago. Not sure if they were the first, though.

Moto7451• 13 years ago

I'm not sure about just reading a six page memo out loud to everyone. That seems like a great thing to email to everyone. Some of my least favorite memories from college are the couple of classes I went to where the professor basically read the book to us. The difference is, I'm guessing, that attendance isn't optional at an Amazon meeting.

Personally I like keeping presentations on the short side - only using slide shows for ancillary data like citations (which I find awkward to fold into the flow of a speach) and graphical data. Unless something is really interesting or very important, it's only going to get 5-10 minutes of people's attention.

jasoncrawford2• 13 years ago

You don't read it out loud. You bring printed copies (or send electronically) and everyone reads it for themselves, in silence, at the beginning of the meeting.

michaelhoffman• 13 years ago

People read the memo silently.

aclements18• 13 years ago

For clarification, the 6 page memo is not read aloud. Each person is provided a copy at the beginning of the meeting and the first 10-15 minutes of the meeting are completely silent.

This actually works pretty well because in the real world people usually only skim the info provided in advance of most meetings because they only need to "get the gist" of what's being said. This forces everyone to have a thorough understanding and promotes more thoughtful discussion.

cybernoodles2• 13 years ago

Memo read silently and then everyone asks questions after attendees are finished. This is for mid-small sized meetings.

fishtoaster• 13 years ago

I don't think powerpoints are inherently bad, but they're misused enough that I wouldn't begrudge anyone who wanted to ban them outright.

The two best ways to use them, from experience, seem to be:

- Super dense slides. These slides have a lot of text and are information-rich. You're not expected to read them, and the presenter will just skim over them, presenting a high-level view of each topic, but definitely not reading off of the slides. The slides are there as a rough guide to the talk, and as an in-depth resource afterwards. - Super spare slides. These slides have few-to-no bullet points, and are heavy on pictures. They're pretty much there to guide the speaker's narrative, and nothing else. At worst, there might be an inherently visual data element, like a graph.

The common element being that the slides are there to guide the talk, not be the talk. The reason powerpoints are so reviled is because people tend to just write a speech, put a bullet point in front of each sentence, and read it off a projected slide.

sliverstorm• 13 years ago

My preferred powerpoints support the talk. They provide things the speaker cannot- pictures, tables, graphs. Sometimes bullets are nice for openings and closings to summarize.

Osiris• 13 years ago

I did a presentation recently regarding Git and git-enabled workflows to a room of people with SVN and TFS backgrounds. The only slide I relied on was the git-flow workflow graph. Everything was a live demonstration of the workflow by actually using git live on the screen.

A projector during a presentation should be used to show what you cannot say or to clarify a point graphically.

cybernoodles2• 13 years ago

Of course they aren't inherently bad. Powerpoint is a tool. There are good ways and bad ways to use it. It's easier to use Powerpoint ineffectively than with other mediums.

zobzu2• 13 years ago

I disagree. It's easier to be a bad speaker than it is to make a bad power point. Even thus you can make both bad, speaking is a LOT harder.

epo2• 13 years ago

Quite, the problem isn't powerpoint it is that people don't know how to give presentations (or often why they are giving the presentation). Consequently they use powerpoint like a drunk uses a lamp post.

IvyMike• 13 years ago

In my experience the people who give shitty presentations with powerpoint would also be perfectly capable of giving shitty presentations without powerpoint.

jmspring• 13 years ago

It's not the tool, it is the presenter. Often times, they lean on the tool rather than actually thinking about their presentation.

agent00f4• 13 years ago

This is a witty point, but OTOH powerpoint has become the ubiquitous hammer of the business presentation which has everyone searching for nails.

There is a time and place for slides with a few talking points per, but in many ways it's contorted most all meetings into PR events even when there's nothing to sell.

ZeroGravitas• 13 years ago

Why are they giving a presentation in the first place? It seems mostly habit as this point.

The article itself supports this as they don't just skip Powerpoint, they skip the presentation entirely in favour of a 6 page memo.

tixocloud• 13 years ago

Well said! I am in complete agreement. Why are we blaming tools when it's the presenters fault themselves for not being able to present? If your staff can't articulate his/her idea properly, train them. Not everyone knows everything right off the bat.

SonicSoul• 13 years ago

i think the idea is to remove powerpoint as a crutch. it may not make a bad presenter great, but it aims to force him to articulate his points better

darksaints• 13 years ago

In my experience at amazon, a shitty presentation never gets presented. "I won't schedule a meeting with our VP if you don't fix this" is the basic filter they use, and it works.

VLM4• 13 years ago

I would disagree at least in the part that spending endless hours on meaningless non revenue generating flair / graphics art work, could theoretically be devoted toward either improving the presentation content, or toward revenue generating activities resulting in better results contained in the powerpoint.

I would also disagree in that its a crutch for the absolute bottom of the barrel presenters, because no matter how bad awkwardly reading slides to the audience is, its better than silence / choking up / repeating themselves / skipping intermediate concepts. Being read to like a preschool child is better than not getting a presentation at all, well, at least most of the time.

jonchang• 13 years ago

A more in-depth treatment "no Powerpoint" at Amazon is given here by Steve Yegge:

https://plus.google.com/110981030061712822816/posts/AaygmbzV...

waster• 13 years ago

This just doubles my question from reading the original post: A full half-hour, for a six-page memo? Are these incredibly dense and full of new information to the readers? People don't really read that slowly. Average adult reading speed is something like 250 wpm. Average memo might be, what, 300 wpp? So, six minutes to read, maybe ten if you're taking your time?

Not sure anyone has the answer, but that length of reading time vs. the presumed number of words to be read struck me as notable.

mallipeddi• 13 years ago

I worked at AWS for a while. So a lot of times when I've been in such meetings, the 6-page document was actually full of technical details (design docs, product FAQs, post-mortem reports, etc). So taking 20-30 mins to read through the full document, re-read some sections and write down questions/comments is not that unusual.

icoder• 13 years ago

Although I've seen all the 'bad examples' come by, on average I don't have much of a problem following ppt backed presentations, contrary, apparently, to others.

Nevertheless I think this is a great idea on itself. I've seen too many meetings where there was reading material but so few people read it that the talk actually focussed on them.

There's one issue though, and only experience will tell whether it is relevant. I for myself am fond of taking in knowledge via paper but the effectiveness of this highly depends on the moment I'm reading. Also I've noticed I find it harder to concentrate when I'm reading 'together in a group'. I feel a bit rushed by it. But perhaps that's just me or something that is easy to get used to.

kevinburke2• 13 years ago

When I was in high school I tried to ban powerpoint, arguing that it inhibited our ability to grow as public speakers. I wrote Edward Tufte and told him about it and he shipped me 20 copies of "The Cognitive Style of Powerpoint: Pitching Out Corrupts Within" (http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/books_pp).

Some teachers opposed it and I ended up losing. I'm sure Powerpoint was more convenient for them. I use deck.js for slides now but mostly for images - the other slides tend to have 3-4 words while I try and tell a story to draw in readers.

My last project pitch to management I printed out copies of a written proposal and had everyone read for ten minutes to start the meeting. It was actually really nice.

Maro• 13 years ago

Have you tried Prezi?

http://prezi.com

(I work there.)

FrejNorling• 13 years ago

My girlfirend just showed me Prezi and I love it!

Just waiting for an opportunity to using it in a real context!

draugadrotten• 13 years ago

Prezi looks good but only replaces boring bullet points with pretty bullet points.

To really focus the presentation to the speaker's voice I find that HAIKU DECK for iOS really removes bullet point syndrome. http://www.haikudeck.com/

(I don't work there.)

seanmcdirmid2• 13 years ago

Prezi gives me motion sickness. I don't see the point.

kevinburke2• 13 years ago

When transmitting information on screens, you can only fit ~7 lines of ~7 words each at a readable font. This inhibits the transfer of complex narratives.

Fancy animations and zooms can't fix this inherent limitation of the slide format.

webdisrupt2• 13 years ago

I was so anti PowerPoint that I used to actually build presentations in Flash (im saying in the late 90s) so as to avoid using it. But most teachers would reject the option since traditionally everyone knew just about PowerPoint.

megablast• 13 years ago

And it is a lot harder. And it misses the point of this article, and just replaces PP with something else producing slides.

EnderMB• 13 years ago

My girlfriend is a teacher, and I can say for sure that it is a lost cause.

Teachers know that their slides suck, but it's what they are taught, and is what their curriculum demands. They demand bright colours, Comic Sans for dyslexic students, and tons of text on each slide.

For a middle-management role in the school, I designed her slides using one of those JS slide scripts, and it went down a treat. It took me the best part of two hours to port her content from Powerpoint to these slides, and I was able to add videos, animations, and to embed Google Apps data directly into the slide. Apparently, the interviewers had their minds blown by being able to view a Google Docs spreadsheet (where I had written the formulas) directly into the slide. I'd still say that it was fairly poorly designed, but it was a lot better than what kids are forced to read.

caw• 13 years ago

Edward Tufte hosts seminars, and this 1 page report is what he was talking about this year (I don't know how much content varies from year to year).

For information density, you can't beat paper, and there's a number of things you can do to make the paper very information dense, like sparklines. He argues that in some ways, sparklines are actually typography and not charts.

With the paper report people can drill into the information they want, and ask questions from there, as well as refer back to the information during Q&A. One quote he said was "They didn't get to become your peers because they can't read fast."

He also said to not give homework. When you make these reports, you spend meeting time reading the paper. It's not something they have to do before, because everyone is busy and no one will actually read it.

denrober• 13 years ago

Amazon, when I worked there, had the worst meeting discipline of all the companies I have worked for. Meetings normally started 10 minutes late and most people didn't show up until 5 minutes after the start time. Being punctual it drove me up the wall.

raphman• 13 years ago

How does this relate to the 'reading group' concept? Did people who arrived late just sit down quietly and start reading?

Pfhreak2• 13 years ago

This is pretty accurate. Most of the meetings start with reading, and if people arrive a few minutes late, they grab a memo and get to marking it up silently without disrupting everyone.

zobzu2• 13 years ago

As an audience person (ie, listening to talks) I believe "Powerpoint is easy for presenter, hard for audience" is crazy talk.

I generally follow using the slides, not listening to the dude who's talking for 30min-1h thank you very much.

Making things simple as you present something complex has nothing to do with having a powerpoint presentation or not. Nothing.

Giving a paper to read is just the same as powerpoint, except if the speaker sucks, you don't have to endure that. So yeah. Wrong punch line, okay approach.

r4dius• 13 years ago

The idea that everyone abides by a standard protocol is a dead giveaway that the author has never spoken with an actual Amazon employee.

nivertech• 13 years ago

This reminded me the way we did Design Reviews at some multinational corporation.

I would write and print a design document of 30-50 pages long, schedule a 1-2 hours meeting and send the document in advance to those 5-10 people attending. Off-course only 1-2 persons would actually read in advance.

Then we were reading it page by page and discussing it, giving special attention to various diagrams, such as flow charts, sequence diagrams, FSMs and UMLs.

We almost never were able to finish in time, so the next meeting should be scheduled (in 1 or 2 weeks because of scheduling constraints) ...

nostromo• 13 years ago

I'm in love with this idea. The information density (in terms of time) of a well written memo is much greater than that of a presentation. Many 30 minute presentations could be read in 5 minutes.

The written word is also a great equalizer. A "presenter" can be judged based on their content rather than their public speaking ability.

ekianjo5• 13 years ago

6 pages is a bit too long, though. In a famous Ranked 1st Consumer Goods company (i'll let you guess which one) all team memos to management are only allowed to be of a single page. This is really hard to adapt to it at the beginning but decision making is so much faster.

_pmf_• 13 years ago

> This is really hard to adapt to it at the beginning but decision making is so much faster.

Yeah. God forbid that anyone making decisions should have to deal with actual details; in the worst case, this would actually make them have to think.

amirmc2• 13 years ago

> "6 pages is a bit too long, though..."

It does depend on the structure of those 6 pages. If I had to do these regularly I can easily imagine settling on a (largely) routine format, e.g 1st page is overview, 2nd page is problem detail, 3rd page is solution/implementation, 4th page risks/mitigation blah blah blah.

Note that the article says the first 30 minutes of the meeting is reading the memo. It doesn't take 5mins to read a page so there's ample time for people to formulate an opinion/questions before discussion actually starts (based on enough info in the memo). This is already an order of magnitude better than any powerpoint talk I've been in where people just shoot from the hip.

smackfu• 13 years ago

So do they write their memos in a word processor or something, to get a page count? Most of our "memos" are just emails.

beat• 13 years ago

Back in the day, President Reagan insisted that all decisions he needed to make be given to him in the form of a one page memo with a yes/no checkbox. We made fun of him for being stupid back then, but now I appreciate the wisdom of it. If he needed to know more, he could always ask, but a one-page yes/no decision forced some efficiency.

Of course, the effectiveness of this approach depends a great deal on the quality of your staff.

sib• 13 years ago

They don't have to be 6 pages at Amazon (and the discussion starts after everyone's done reading, not after a prescribed 30-minute period). Oftentimes what is requested is a 2-pager. However, even the 6-page ones are not full of fluff; they're usually packed with data and analysis. Fluff tends to get pulled out pretty aggressively in favor of more information that's been requested sometime during the drafting and review process. By the time a document gets to Jeff, many eyes have seen it.

lifeguard• 13 years ago

It has been my extensive experience that anyone above mid-level manager will ONLY read a power point -- ie a summary, a graph, and a couple of bullet points. Never a email longer than four sentences and never, ever a report.

Maybe meetings are different?

davros• 13 years ago

Its worse than that. In many companies, a slick powerpoint presentation weighs far more than thoughtful analysis. I've done the experiment and presented the same recommendations based on the same logic in two ways. The concise email got a 'good idea we should think about that' - the powerpoint three weeks later (same words, nothing in the business had changed) got a 'brilliant work we need to drop everything and do that now'.

These are smart and capable people too. They're just somehow got this deep bias about only pretty powerpoint could be important.

dakrisht• 13 years ago

One of the hardest things I've learned over the years is how to condense information into quick slides, quick demos, quick presentations. People don't have the capacity that some of us might have. We're used to the material, so it's second nature to us. And other people don't see things that way. Especially when you're communicating with older people who will be lucky to understand 50% of a keynote, product demo, idea, task, problem, etc. They need the facts, and they need them quickly. I love the Amazon approach behind memos, and everything being shorter and to the point in general. The way to go. It's crazy how much you can condense that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Beautiful.

lifeisstillgood• 13 years ago

This seems pretty much what Steve Yegge said a few years back - cannot find the ref but he had to write a essay for Bezos to read - no PowerPoint.

I think it's sensible - you can write a PowerPoint in ten minutes and not have to think things through. Try not thinking while writing 6 pages of argument - it will be impossible or achingly clear when it's read.

zozu• 13 years ago

It is a good point and I surely see its potential. However 6 pages seem a bit long.

And my general opinion is that the presentation should be supportive towards the presentator. Not the other way around.

jpalomaki• 13 years ago

I think the best points: - Reserved time for everybody to read and understand the issues before meeting starts - Something tangible for those not able to participate in the meeting

iyulaev3• 13 years ago

The sad issue is that most people would gladly spend that time doing other things rather than reading :(

lispython• 13 years ago

Edward Tufte's article "PowerPoint Does Rocket Science--and Better Techniques for Technical Reports"(http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0...) has a wealthy of information about why and how to avoid Powerpoint.

adrianhoward• 13 years ago

It's odd how tied some folk are to slides even when it's a completely inappropriate tool for the situation at hand.

On the viewing side as as well as the presenter side.

I occasionally workshops on various things. Some (not all) of them <gasp> don't have any slides.

None.

On the grounds that the point of the workshop, as far as I'm concerned, is to pay a lot of attention to what I'm telling you - and do the practical exercises. You learn by doing - not by reading. A slide deck just gets in the way of that. It's a barrier between me and the class.

Every time there's one or two people who really hate that and complain about the lack of the deck. Not the quality of the workshop - that they're fine with - but the fact they don't have a slide deck.

Occasionally it's because they want to take away the deck and run the workshop inside their own company for free (and hey - I don't mind about that. Honest. It actually helps sales ;-).

But more often folk seem to need "a thing" to take away and look at again. Not so much as a learning tool, but as token that they were there.

I'm seriously considering making some physical "things" for folk. Maybe postcards with the key learning points on and a reading list. Just to see if that'll help.

gjm11• 13 years ago

> I occasionally workshops on various things. Some (not all) of them <gasp> don't have any slides.

Or verbs.

eldridgea• 13 years ago

I do a bit of magic (the performance art, not the card game) and attend lectures. Typically it's just a guy with no tech demoing new effects and methods. At the end they always sell lecture notes. It's a detailed overview of everything they did that night and it's usually indexed well so I can jump straight to a particular effect I want to learn.

I really enjoy this approach. It allows my to pay attention without worrying about remembering or note taking during the presentation and still allows me an almost perfect reference.

6d0debc071• 13 years ago

All the meetings I do are voluntary. Most of the people who attend work with the problems in some way.

Your time is incredibly valuable. If you're sitting there for 30 minutes while someone reads your memo, if you're getting everyone together in one place to read your memo, with all that implies for their schedules, then that's a waste of a lot of extremely important time for a lot of people.

Meetings are for discussions that you can only have with everyone together. They're so that people who don't understand something can ask you questions, or so that you can work with others who do understand the problems. Not for reading groups.

ozh• 13 years ago

While this is totally true (what's the point in gathering people to get them to read instead of talk?) this is just how it works in most places. Ask people to read something before a meeting: 80% show up without having read, no matter how easy to read or important the paper is.

iyulaev3• 13 years ago

PowerPoint is a presentation tool, and like any tool it can be misused to the point of frustration. At best, PowerPoint offers a good way to provide a visual aid for a presentation. People who present crappy PowerPoint decks would have no trouble delivering a similarly crappy speech, or writing an indecipherable memo.

One great book on delivering awesome presentations - Presentation Zen (http://www.amazon.com/Presentation-Zen-Simple-Delivery-Editi...)

agent00f4• 13 years ago

As I mentioned to a similar comment, powerpoint has become the ubiquitous hammer of the business presentation which has everyone searching for nails.

There is a time and place for slides with a few talking points per, but in many ways it's contorted most all meetings into PR events even when there's nothing to sell.

grinich• 13 years ago

Even better, check out anything by Nancy Duarte. She's incredible. Helped Al Gore on the Inconvenient Truth deck, regularly consults for Apple, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Nancy-Duarte/e/B002BMAA0K/?_encoding=U...

webdisrupt2• 13 years ago

This article could not have been posted at a better time! I seriously think that these form of presentations do put their audience to sleep whilst also being non productive.

I personally don't think one can do without slides as sometimes it helps the audience visualise what one is discussing. Therefore I believe it should be more about the essence of the content.

In summary, just keep each slide to a max of 2-3 words or just one image that best describes the topic you are discussing.

I feel that this could work well for many organisations, irrespective of their size, especially when one factors in how much time could saved on meetings.

CurtMonash• 13 years ago

I posted "Death to PowerPoints" -- http://www.strategicmessaging.com/powerpoints/2008/02/02/ -- 5 years ago, and still live by it. I almost never sit through a conventional presentation in a 1-on-1. I almost never attend presentations where a deck is presented to a group.

That said, I frequently edit slide decks for my clients to inflict on other people. And on the rare occasions I give presentations, I use PowerPoint, commonly in old-fashioned bulleted-outline style.

Complicating the discussion yet further:

* I write stuff for people to read MUCH more than I give presentations.

* My writing involves a lot of lists of bullet points. :)

rlwolfcastle• 13 years ago

Powerpoint is not the problem, it is the poor presentations people give using it.

wjruoxue• 13 years ago

I once went to an IDEO talk and noticed that all words in the speaker's Powerpoint are capital letters. After the talk, I asked the guy why he made it like that and his answer was that since capital letters make it harder to read, you would force yourself to write concisely on the Powerpoint. He also mentioned that many people inside IDEO follow this rule.

Badly made Powerpoint is just useless while 6-page memo might be too time consuming and inconvenient. Capital letter approach could be a good compromise between those two.

SCAQTony• 13 years ago

One sentence and an image or illustration to resonate that sentence or illustrate that sentence and a PowerPoint preso can be effective.

Pfhreak2• 13 years ago

No one is saying all powerpoint presentations are valueless. They are saying most powerpoint presentations are valueless.

cobralibre• 13 years ago

The wonderful thing about the linked article is that it's essentially a bullet-pointed summary of a much longer source.

VLM4• 13 years ago

"Powerpoint is easy for presenter, hard for audience"

My observational experience is the opposite. A powerpoint must have "professional" design and "professional" multiple fonts and "professional" multiple colors, and "professional" multimedia such as stock photos and such. A lack of extensive customization shows a lack of motivation or a lack of respect. It doesn't matter if it contains actual content as long as it looks nice, because all actual content was already discussed interactively via email or phone call or written reports. So a presenter starts with generating 30 minutes of content then spends 6 hours adding meaningless flair, getting it approved by boss, bosses boss, then endless editorial changes to the multimedia, "move that stock photo a little to the left", etc. The graphics arts load on the presenter is huge and extremely expensive, yet provides no monetary value, especially for internal presentations.

On the other hand the reviewer doesn't really learn anything because any important topic was discussed in written email format in detail, the presentation is a mere formality / dominance ritual. So powerpoint is pretty easy on the audience, if its a powerpoint, that means you should tune it out.

VLM4• 13 years ago

I want to know the new dominance ritual. At non AMZN type companies a major dominance ritual lower ranks spending inordinate amounts of time adding meaningless flair to powerpoints, as an illuminated manuscript work of art rather than a professional business communication to show off to the boss. So whats the new dominance ritual if its not powerpoint anymore? Buying the audience coffee? Charging their cellphones for them? Traditional stuff like kissing up and brown nosing? Buy the audience ceremonial donuts? Physical trinkets/gifts? "Here's a printed out copy, of the email you already read, about the results we previously discussed on the phone, as a physical artifact to remind you of the meeting and your superiority over me"?

You don't get rid of a behavior by suppressing one of its minor manifestations. You're just going to get a new manifestation of the same behavior. So what is it / will it be?

pasbesoin• 13 years ago

> flair

Thank you for finally providing me a concise word for so much of what goes on with typical Powerpoint use.

P.S. For those unfamiliar with the term (in this context).

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=flair

I was thinking particularly of its use in the movie "Office Space".

VLM4• 13 years ago

"I was thinking particularly of its use in the movie "Office Space"."

I didn't invent it, I have personally been subjected to a conversation right out of the movie WRT powerpoint at a previous employer, "Yes, I know you have the corporate minimum of 25 pieces of flair in your powerpoint, but you only have the minimum 25 pieces, and brownnoser over there has 47 pieces of flair in his powerpoint, isn't that great, and you wouldn't want my boss to think you only want to do the minimum, would you? I mean I'm not telling you that you have to add an animated dancing robot to card #72, but I'm hoping you yourself will want to add an animated dancing robot, without my having to tell you to do more than the minimum..." What a steaming pile of coaching. I am thankful not to work there anymore... It wasn't word for word outta the movie (didn't use the word flair, I believe it was "animations and font color changes") but close enough. Actually I think the coaching conversation happened before the movie?

nell• 13 years ago

I was at the Edward Tufte's class and he talked about this practice at Amazon. He was strongly advising all of us to follow it. He also mentioned that Apple uses a 11x17 information sheet that is shared to all meeting attendees.

davidf18• 13 years ago

Dov Frohman, founder of Intel Israel (8,000 employees) and inventor of the flash memory states in his book, "Leadership the Hard Way" the following story about a five-page proposal sent to Andy Grove:

Quote:

'Something about the very distance in my relationship with Andy seemed to invest small things with large significance. For example, when I was a young manger at Intel Israel, I sent Andy a five-page proposal for shifting the Jerusalem fab production line from memories to microprocessors. He returned it, unread, with a stamp reading “Please respect my time.” His message: the proposal was way too long. He wanted one page, not five. Grove’s request – “Please respect my time” – had an enormous impact on me.'

alan_cx• 13 years ago

I think blanket rules like this are a bit silly. Clearly PP (Powerpoint) has its uses. A picture is still worth 1000 words.

My suggestion would be to have a default ban, but insist that if a presenter really "needs" to use PP (s)he should have to get some sort of permission first. The reason for that is that the person wanting to use PP would then have to consider and justify its use before using it. Basically, just give them pause to think and consider.

codex• 13 years ago

Did Bezos learn this practice at DE Shaw?

walshemj2• 13 years ago

Sorry if you haven't read the papers prior to the start of the meeting with out a good excuse I would consider giving you a verbal warning and if repeated a written one and putting you on poor performance procedure.

pgeorgi• 13 years ago

Try that with someone superior in the corporate ladder.

walshemj2• 13 years ago

If I am chair I run the meeting - I once told the company founder to sit down and let some one else speak :-)

This rule should come from the top if I was chairman of a company and any director/attendee turned up having not read the papers I woudl be having words with them.

epo2• 13 years ago

The real drawback to this approach is that it ensures no one will prepare for the meeting and the 'discussion' will consist of kneejerk reactions to what they have just read. It is eminently unsuitable for discussing anything important and if it is not important then why have the meeting in the first place.

Amazon Staff Meetings: “No Powerpoint”

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