Ask HN : What do you do when you feel like a loser?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4977299

by init0 • 14 years ago

44 87 14 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Even though you are better than your peers in terms of $$, job and status. But deep inside you feel that you have not achieved much in life. BTW i'm 25

checker659• 14 years ago

Take a chance.

mikecane2• 14 years ago

>>>not achieved much in life

Your expectations are wrong then.

EDIT: You asked what to do. Change your expectations. Really, that's probably the root of things. What are you calling "achievement," to begin with?

init019• 14 years ago

Some break through that will make people to remember you for a long time?

mikecane2• 14 years ago

Why? Who was big in 1889? Hell, in 1960? How many classic books have you read? Those books have been in print over 100 years, yet have you read them?

xiaoma• 14 years ago

Stop thinking of people being "better" or "worse", and stop thinking so much about yourself. Try focusing your attention on your interests and goals instead (the goals themselves, not your evaluation of your performance).

If you do that for a month you'll likely find yourself feeling a lot better.

Chris_X• 14 years ago

As long as your expectations are not utterly unrealistic, lowering them won't motivate you to do anything about it.

It helps if you know where you want to go, and you're doing something to get there.

cafard• 14 years ago

Work out, get a good night's sleep. Remember Tom Lehrer's words, "By the time Mozart was my age, he had been dead for ten years.", laugh and move on.

Assuming that you have been working towards your goals since 16, that's nine years. You have a reasonable expectation of four times as many productive years in front of you, maybe five times.

init019• 14 years ago

heh heh nice qoute!

patio11• 14 years ago

There's a sort of generational ennui, in that the traditional milestones of adulthood have largely been eroded in the last sevenish decades and we're raised with a clear set of expectations and paths for success (and feeling successful, being seen as successful, and being told we're successful) which function right up until age 22, at which point life loses virtually all out-of-the-box structure and you have to supply your own. Some people adjust to that transition better than others.

Random advice?

Don't hang around with anybody who routinely asks "Why am I a loser?". There is a tight feedback loop. (This is a subset of the more general rule "Associate more with people who you'd like to be like and less with people who you wouldn't like to be like.")

You know those guys who say that exercise and diet cure almost everything? They're a lot more right than I would have credited them 10 years ago.

If job / career / $$$ are not primary happiness drivers for you (which is Totally OK), then figure out what is and take the obvious steps towards getting them.

pirer2• 14 years ago

Job / career / $$$ shouldn't be primary happiness drivers for anyone.

ovi256• 14 years ago

I'm sorry, but that's a very naive and dangerous view. Being satisfied by what you do has always been a good goal, and society has always rewarded you for doing well at your job.

I can't see what angle you are coming from, so I can't give you a specific refutation, I hope it was novel.

codegeek• 14 years ago

"Associate more with people who you'd like to be like and less with people who you wouldn't like to be like"

This. I always tell exactly this to my friends who come to me for advice related to career. You want to be a successful manager/executive ? Try and associate with those. You don't want to be a loser in life ? Stop associating with ppl who always think so about themselves.

Overall, associate with people who you think are better than you in the context of things that you wish to achieve.

init019• 14 years ago

I don't want to be like my co-workers, but I still need to be with them :\ I want to be one amongst the great developers, with whom I'm already coding :) So this is kina mixed emotions. I'm so there, but still so far!

ahh• 14 years ago

> Don't hang around with anybody who routinely asks "Why am I a loser?".

This is probably great advice for any individual, but really screws your friends who are depressed or otherwise in bad places. How would you like it if you felt like a failure, were sad all the time, and then all your friends stopped talking to you because you were a downer?

meric• 14 years ago

"Don't hang around with anybody who routinely asks "Why am I a loser?". "

What if they're people you care about?

init019• 14 years ago

Awesome advice! :) I don't want to be like my co-workers, but I still need to be with them :\ I want to be one amongst the great developers, with whom I'm already coding :) So this is kina mixed emotions. I'm so there, but still so far!

andrewcooke• 14 years ago

well, i don't feel like a loser. but then i've never thought of comparing myself using $$ job and status.

i'd suggest growing up a bit. get some more perspective on life. do something different. broaden your outlook.

you might also consider counselling. perhaps there are "issues" about trying to please parents or whatever.

what i'm saying is that what's broken is not how you evaluate yourself (winner or loser), but that you're actually doing the comparison at all. people are different. value different things, want different things, care about different things. you can't put them in a line.

lostnet2• 14 years ago

> you have not achieved much in life

There are over 6 billion people on this planet. How many have you heard of by name?

Of those you have heard of, how many appear to have happy lives and don't have children who wont talk to them or belong on a MTV reality show?

I would say live well and if after you die you are remembered outside of your friends and family then you most likely did something wrong.

theorique4• 14 years ago

if after you die you are remembered outside of your friends and family then you most likely did something wrong.

What?

What about Steve Jobs or Richard Feynman or Christopher Hitchens? (to pick three random examples)

They are dead and well known because they are highly accomplished.

Of course, doing things because you expect to be remembered for it is misguided. But being remembered after you die by large numbers of people is not a sign that you did something wrong.

cjfont• 14 years ago

I'm going to guess that lostnet is saying that it is easier to be remembered for doing something wrong than for doing something right, although I'm not sure what value that would have in terms of advice.

tehwebguy• 14 years ago

Maybe your outside validation so far has come from people that don't really "get it"?

People on the outside may be easily impressed (parents, friends, acquaintances) but maybe you don't quite believe it because they haven't poked holes in your accomplishments so far?

Yes, I am projecting.

jschuur• 14 years ago

You only need to make a lasting difference for one new person in your life. That way, the chain isn't broken. Anything on top of that is a bonus.

theorique4• 14 years ago

Realize that I will die and that the things important to be now may not necessarily always be important to me.

Let go of attachment to impermanent things like name and achievements and reputation, and just go to work.

init019• 14 years ago

So I must start being a machine?

theorique4• 14 years ago

No, a zen master

bhousel• 14 years ago

Run a marathon. It won't improve your $$, job, or status, but it will probably be the hardest thing you've done up to this point in your life, and once it's done you won't feel like a loser anymore.

anandkulkarni• 14 years ago

Channel that feeling into motivation to achieve more. A bit of dissatisfaction is natural and happens to folks irrespective of what they may have achieved -- it can be a healthy force that pushes you to do more with your life.

oe• 14 years ago

I had the same exact feeling at 25. My advice would be to work on small, achievable (side) projects and focusing on finishing each project before starting a new one. I remember having lots of ideas but never really finishing anything great or meaningful, which was a source of anxiety back then.

Remember, you don't have to create a new RoR or Facebook to feel successful. For example, many small open source projects provide great value for a number of people. Now at 30, I'm happy to be able to list a number of things I have done, however small or big they are.

bjoe_lewis• 14 years ago

I'm 21 and still feel exactly the same, except without "$$, job and status"

utefan001• 14 years ago

Buy a bike. Of course this will not work for everyone, but it might for someone here. Sorry for the long post.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/a-bicycle-and-a-...

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/closeouts/ridley.454.html?...

From http://redkiteprayer.com/2012/12/a-new-alchemy-of-speed/

------------------------------------------------------------

Let’s start with an audacious premise, that just by virtue of the fact that you are reading these words, you are fast. I know. I know. “Bullshit,” you think to yourself. But maybe it’s true, last week’s post not withstanding.

These things can be self-fulfilling, the placebo that cures what ails you.

Allow me to perform the trick of the medium, the palm-reader or the gazer into crystal balls. Dim the lights. Put your credit card on the table.

You ride a bike. Oh yes, the low-hanging fruit. The obvious. But don’t you see we’re already more than half-way there. Because not only do you a ride a bike, but you ride a bike often, some might even say regularly. Wait. Wait. It’s more than that. You actually define yourself, sketch the outlines of your deep and true and core identity, in relation to the bike.

You are a cyclist, but you are more. You are a committed cyclist. In the back of your mind, at some point, you have assigned yourself a sub-identity within the cycloverse. You are a climber (grimpeur) or a rouleur. Maybe a sprinter or a randonneur. It doesn’t matter, because you know which one you are, and you know which one you are because you’ve tried to be at least one of the others and found it didn’t suit you.

How am I doing? Uncanny, right? Look, every Robot with a neon sign out front isn’t a charlatan. Some of us have true mystical powers. We see things. We know.

And so you ride. You ride a lot. Maybe you ride through the winter, or maybe you take an off-season. It doesn’t matter. Even if you use the term “winter weight” un-ironically, you remain a cyclist, and you know, even as you shovel another forkful of cake into your gaping maw, that you will return to the bike. You have faith that it will set you free from these days of excess, the license you’ve given to your id, that rotten son-of-a-bitch who doesn’t care a whit how (not) fast you are in the spring.

It’s all alright, because you’re a cyclist.

And now we circle back to our premise that you are fast. “Pfffffttt!!” you think again, “Have you met me?” And yes, I have. I know you. You’re that guy who rides a bike, by virtue of which, you are fast.

No, you are not fast relative to Steve. Fucking Steve whose muscle-y ass you’ve had to follow over hill and goddamned dale all summer long. Steve, who once won things and knows how much his wheels weigh. Steve, who, despite being faster and fitter and better adjusted than you are, is actually an alright guy, and let’s be honest, if it wasn’t for Steve, we probably wouldn’t ride as much as we do. Let’s not murder Steve, just because he’s fast. There are better ways to bend the curve of velocity back toward our own very human capabilities.

Go to the grocery store. Never mind a cart. You don’t need a cart. And forget the basket. Put it down. Just walk the aisles. Up. Down. Frozen foods. The chip aisle. Even allow yourself to wander into produce. It doesn’t matter. Have a look around. Count the number of shoppers you couldn’t beat in a two-up, town-line sprint. KAPOW! You’re fast.

Take your life, add a bike, sprinkle liberally with a ruthless realism and a modest sense of humor. It’s that easy. You are fast.

------------------------------------------------------------

init019• 14 years ago

heh heh very well written Sir! I have a bike in my backyard waiting for me from 8months now, I think it's time now!

paulbjensen• 14 years ago

Go for a walk in the nearest Park, it's a good way to have a think about what you want.

jenskanis• 14 years ago

I tell my girlfriend how I feel. She always tells me she's proud and I'm not a loser. Sometimes you just need somebody to give you some reassurance.

So go and talk to somebody you love.

microtonal• 14 years ago

Everything is impermanent and has no real nature. Learn to ride the waves of change. Enjoy the small and beautiful things in life, the company of friends and family, and don't be afraid of change.

For me, mindfulness meditation helped me understanding emotions, sensations, and life in general. But running, hiking, or cycling, works for many people as well. Give your mind peacefulness.

init019• 14 years ago

Zomg! I started with mindfulness meditation last week.

napoleond• 14 years ago

Go on a trip, and do something physical outside. Ideally, combine the two--I went on a very long bicycle tour, but a running/kayak/canoe/hiking trip would also work. Bonus points for making the trip itself an achievement, but even if all you get is some clear-headed thinking in nature you should be fine.

braveheart1723• 14 years ago

give me half of your Hacker News karma points.

You'll feel much better about yourself - it's all about giving.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqCT2aP4pSM

debacle• 14 years ago

25 is a good age to feel like a loser - you've got another 50 years to do something about it.

I find that writing down an internal dialog helps profoundly with isolating the specific reason that I feel like a loser. Then, it's just execution.

b-man• 14 years ago

Have more compassion for yourself.

Read this book to understand more what I'm talking about:

http://www.amazon.com/Compassion-Self-Hate-Alternative-Despa...

init019• 14 years ago

On it.

forgottenpaswrd• 14 years ago

Travel to another country NOW.

I know you are American, why?, because "loser" is an American word, as an American friend told me "In America everything is about money and they have this word they are always using, loser".

Go to Brazil, India, Rift Valley in Africa and contemplate how people could be 10 times more happier than you having 10 times less and think about that. Look at how people live in communities there and not isolated like in the US, where places to walk and talk with your peers simply do not exist, unless you have lots of money(but not time) to enjoy it.

$$, job and status is an external thing, we need a minimum those things, but is not going to make you happy over it. You are not going to eat 10 times a day, or drive two cars at the same time, are you?.

You also need internal things to make you happy. For every person is different. E.g I need to create new stuff for feeling alive, I need to spend time with my girlfriend, touch and feel her, money(once my necessities are satisfied) is nothing in comparison.

eshvk2• 14 years ago

> Go to Brazil, India, Rift Valley in Africa and contemplate how people could be 10 times more happier than you having 10 times less and think about that. Look at how people live in communities there and not isolated like in the US, where places to walk and talk with your peers simply do not exist, unless you have lots of money(but not time) to enjoy it.

cough bullshit cough. I grew up in Africa and spent ten years in India. There is nothing magical about communities there that will solve the OP's feeling of being a loser or not. Just because people are forced to interact with community or family because they have no space or they have deep cultural ties doesn't mean that they automatically become happy. I have known enough people who are deeply sad within and keep up fake appearances just to make others think that they are doing OK. Also, the other thing about these societies is the lack of filters: People will tell you straight to your face that you suck and are worthless. I am unsure of how going to these countries as tourists and getting enamored by the external facade is going to help OP get over feeling like a loser. Also, everywhere you will find people who like the idea of money. I could argue that people here in the U.S. are more open to the idea of finding themselves because of the societal safety nets (Yes, despite all the shit flying in Congress, America has way better a safety net than the third world) than people that live in the third world. The myth of the primitive savage who lives a noble existence is just that... a myth.

init019• 14 years ago

Myth! hmm ok... I heard yoga helps a lot and people in India must do a lot of it to be happy :\ ? (Duh! foolish thought)

init019• 14 years ago

True, I always get this feeling of going out of this country! Need make some courage.

bobowzki• 14 years ago

Exercise.

japhyr• 14 years ago

Do you do anything physical in a natural place on a regular basis? That's one place to look.

Does your work have meaning? When you are 50 or 60 and you look back at your life's work, will it have value? If not, you might try to find a socially meaningful project to contribute to. It seems you've got valuable technical skills; share them with a project that has the kind of value you'd like in your life.

init019• 14 years ago

Almost 0 physical work :\ And yes I have a blog and I contribute in free and open source.

confluence3• 14 years ago

Frankly? It's because you haven't achieved anything in your life of any real import and you probably never will. But guess what - neither have 99.9999999% of humans who have ever lived, or ever will live.

125 billion humans have walked the planet since the first Homo Sapiens first roamed Africa. How many of them are remembered today? How many of them had any real impact or achieved important things?

Statistically, it is unlikely that you will be either remembered, or in fact have any real impact on the future of any great significance.

Thinking otherwise will merely depress you.

You are feeling like a loser because you are one - just like the rest of us. None of us will be known a generation from now and furthermore our entire existence will effectively be wiped away within 2 generations.

So do whatever makes you happy for the longest period of time and embrace the pointlessness of your existence.

I know I have.

neilk4• 14 years ago

I think you're projecting your own problems here. OP did not complain about cosmic futility or worry about being remembered a generation hence, just a feeling they hadn't done much in life yet.

confluence3• 14 years ago

These achievements are ostensibly done for the purposes of either impact, memory or gene dispersal.

init019• 14 years ago

But how did some of them manage to stay for generation after their dead?

tomasien• 14 years ago

I'm amazed how many people are chastising the OP for worrying about job status and pay. He's NOT. He's explicitly saying that DESPITE making MORE than his peers, he feels like a loser.

That's a healthy way to feel. Save up, cut your costs, and then quit your job and try to do something amazing.

init019• 14 years ago

You Sir, you read my mind!

d135-1r43• 14 years ago

If I look at my achievements that I am proud of, they have do not link to traditional status symbols like money and job. I see both achievement in my professional career and in my private life. And all achievements would be possible if I had no $$, a more basic job and a lesser status.

Try to find your achievements in being a friend, being a valuable person in your community. Do arts. Publish your art.

Try to be part of a community of crazy people, people who try things out, people who motivate you.

Donito• 14 years ago

I often feel the same way, and at times even feel wrong thinking it given my $$, job, and status. I almost feel ungrateful feeling that way, but that's beside the point.

In my case, I tend to feel like a loser when I'm exhausted from doing things I don't particularly enjoy, and neglect the things I do. For example, spending countless hours doing a job that doesn't particularly excite me (but still do it well), and neglect my favorite activities such as playing soccer, dancing, or going out with friends. Then begins the spiral loop of wondering "what you have achieved", and looking at what others your age or younger have done. If that's how you feel, you're not alone and thankfully there are ways to break that mentality :)

When that happens to me, my best approach over time has been to pause for a moment, take a step back, and reflect on my situation. Realize that at 25, having $$, job, and status is actually "quite an achievement" that many others wish they could have accomplished as well. Realize many of the things you take for granted, like eating every day, having access to water, are a dream for some in other parts of the globe. Being able to afford what you desire for the most part (except maybe that Lamborghini), is a dream for many for many within the country. All in all, on an absolute scale, you're definitely in a pretty good spot and by no mean a "loser".

At that point, I usually feel better about myself. But that's only a temporary fix, because the underlying issues are still there. Rethink your priorities in life in terms of what provides YOU happiness. Forget about what society and movies make you believe priorities should be, and think personal. A quote I really like on the topic, from fight club, is:

"God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off."

Now don't get me wrong, it is possible you genuinely have a personal goal to become a movie star, which would make you the happiest person on earth (but again, that's beyond the point). So think hard about yourself and what really motivates and makes you happy, and reset your priorities. Maybe it's worth not staying as long at work, fix that bug tomorrow, and go play that soccer game you've been craving for. Or maybe instead of spending an afternoon going to some event you don't really want to go to is better spent hacking away this fun idea you've been wanting to do for a while. Whatever makes you excites you, make it and priority and find time for it. The rest really is secondary. In my case, after a while I decided to make the bold move of quitting my job for another that pays less, where I work longer hours, but that is oh soooooo much more fun. I'm loving it and am super happy learning great stuff on a daily basis, and being payed doing what I like. We're all different, so it's up to you to find what your thing is :) Good luck, and I hope if you got this far my answer helps.

init019• 14 years ago

Thanks for the tip! Hope I shall find a way to balance my priorities soon!

shicky• 14 years ago

What did you move from and what have you moved to in terms of job?

neilk4• 14 years ago

Why do you feel like a loser? That implies you're falling behind somebody else -- who, and in what way?

init019• 14 years ago

About the more famous.

JohnHaugeland• 14 years ago

If you feel like you haven't achieved much in life, go achieve something.

I know that sounds glib - maybe even unfair - but it's also easier than it's ever been, especially if you're a programmer.

Start with something stupid. Buy a domain and implement it.

Then put in a little more effort to think of something a little less stupid.

Repeat until you have your pride back.

init019• 14 years ago

I have about 370 such articles on my blog, but no I'm not happy yet...

maliki• 14 years ago

What do I do? Honestly?

I watch a slo-mo tiger woods fist pump* and get back to work.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/14342/tiger-woods-fist-pump.html

angersock2• 14 years ago

A piece of advice that has served me well: "Life is about more than trying to see how high up into the upper-middle class you can get."

Consider your three given metrics.

Money is, ultimately, just a measure of how much economic influence you have available. You don't even need to have your own money in order to make a dent--somebody working for a non-profit or trading company probably controls wealth far in excess of whatever you'll be able to scrape together. The value of money isn't even constant across regions: a pauper in the Bay could live like a king in Houston. From this we see that money is not a reliable yardstick.

A job, especially one for someone else doing something you don't enjoy, is just a way of accumulating money. If you aren't rewarded by the work, you are just wasting the reserve of hours you were given at birth. There's plenty that needs doing out there, and plenty of people that'll pay you for it. Even with a "good" job, you are not guaranteed respect by society: a lot of folks who do construction are viewed with contempt by people who've never tried to float drywall properly in their lives, and a lot of folks who design beautiful architectures go utterly unseen and unappreciated by the public who consumes their software. So, jobs are not a good measure of self-worth either.

Status is arbitrary and something that is accorded to you by others. Valuing yourself in that fashion is much like valuing yourself based on how popular with your preferred gender--it's something over which you ultimately have not the final say, and so makes you vulnerable to "market fluctuations". Status is just good marketing, one way or the other, and don't for a second conflate your perceived worth with your actual value as a human being.

In the end, you need to remember that the default case is still failure, and that in half a century you'll be dead, and in a century more more than likely completely forgotten.

This being the case, enjoy every morning and opportunity to try something new, put yourself out on the line, and go to bed each day secure in the knowledge that hey, you're ultimately free to play the game however is most enjoyable to you.

And don't worry about indicators that won't mean anything when you're worm food along with the people who would've judged you. :)

init019• 14 years ago

> in a century more more than likely completely forgotten. Yes, but there are few people whom we still remember who were on this earth ages ago, how did they manage to be that?

lsiebert• 14 years ago

I help people who are less fortunate. I listen to people, instead of waiting for my turn to talk. I try to compare myself to myself, and improve on that metric.

peterchon• 14 years ago

When you feel like a loser, do something good for someone else. It doesn't have to be for strangers or charity-specific.

Call your parents, hell - go see them and take them to a movie on your dime. Buy a video game for your nephew/niece and play with them. Call your friends up and buy a round of beer!

When you stop thinking about "YOUR" achievements and start thinking about others, I'd bet you will feel a whole lot more successful.

BigNuts• 14 years ago

Dunno because i am 40 and i have never felt like a loser.

sh4k• 14 years ago

LSD and MDMA taught me how to love and appreciate myself and got me on the road to get the most out of my life.

kaliblack• 14 years ago

Since the question is about what I (the reader) would do, I'll answer it from that POV. I'm 35 and I've had that feeling ever since I can remember. To me it's a feeling of wanting growth and movement in all aspects of my life. I adopted the motto "always happy, never satisfied," which sums it up perfectly for me. Only when I'm feeling down do I feel like a loser. I make sure I take stock and be thankful for what I have achieved, otherwise it's easy to get caught up in all my unmet goals.

helen842000• 14 years ago

Give.

Time, money, advice, effort, compliments - whatever you have to give. After you've ticked your own achievements off you need to expand your goals. Nothing feels more rewarding than achieving something bigger than your own wants.

Something longer term, challenging & meaningful will give you direction, purpose and greater success than just money alone.

n2dasun• 14 years ago

I just turned 36 and have recently felt a similar way, though I wouldn't go as far as to call myself a loser. I distilled my understanding of that dissatisfaction down and realized that I'm always consuming nowadays (video games, reddit, HN, music, movies, food, etc.) and hardly producing anything. I think we're all defined by what we create and the best place to look when we're feeling out of sorts is in the fruits of our labor. I was always creating something when I was younger. A comic book in high school, short stories and poetry in college, and nothing significant now since about 2006 except for a huge home renovation and having two great kids. So, once I realized (within the past 4 months) that I've stopped being a creator and haven't been following my passions, I started taking steps to correct that. I just got accepted to grad school for Software Engineering, so hopefully that'll be the first step towards some significant progress, but I'm also trying to take on some personal projects. And when I say personal projects, I mean build something that YOU want to build, not something that someone else wants from you.

Ask HN : What do you do when you feel like a loser?

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