Easyduino: Open Source PCB Devboards for KiCad

by Hanqaqa • 3 months ago

253 44 3 months ago

wow, I've been wanting a "PCB design system" like this for such a long time. I've always found it stupidly hard to just take an existing working board and tweak it.

wpm• 3 months ago

Worst is when I have a full board and schematic, but its for some other EDA program. Importing EagleCAD shit into KiCAD is agonizing, endless tedium. It's not like I'm not grateful to have free and open-source designs (specifically I'm talking about Adafruit, I like them, but all they use is EagleCAD), but goddamnit why can't it just be easy for once :(

slicktux• 3 months ago

This is a nice project that I will definitely be looking into for my projects!

precompute• 3 months ago

Awesome.

lloydatkinson• 3 months ago

Is the intention that you "fork" the PCB design and use it as a base/template for you own schematics/PCB design, or something else?

junon• 3 months ago

I could imagine small companies that rely on these boards and that also have their fab and sourcing pipelines set up would be able to easier source these themselves. Just have to generate the Gerbers (fabrication output format most manus need) and then send it off as part of a larger order, etc.

Especially if you're able to replace certain small/passive components with those you already have in bulk, it could be a potential cost cutting measure.

Just a guess though.

For my case, they'd be useful if I wanted to know how certain subcircuits are designed or laid out.

Even for beginners, taking it into kicad, enabling the selection of only tracks and vias and deleting them all, then doing a full re-layout of the board as practice would be a cool project if you're wanting to learn.

Mizza• 3 months ago

I've got some projects that use ADCs on Pi "Hats" that connect to controls, I could see a future version which integrates that ADCs and pots directly onto the board to get a slimmer profile. It's quite handy, I wonder what the unit cost is with assembly at JLCPCB.

coryrc2• 3 months ago

Yes to the first half, for the most part.

throwup238• 3 months ago

Most electrical engineers use “reference designs” published by the IC manufacturers to design their PCBs, although any open source commercially available design can act as a reference. They essentially copy the schematics from the PDF (or import if file formats/converters allow), ripping out whatever they don’t need, then reroute the PCB using their layers.

In some cases, when their PCB fab layer stack up is similar enough to the original board, they can go a step further and copy paste most of the PCB into their design so that any signal integrity work carries over. Realistically this is only really practical for low speed designs but still useful for a whole class of electronics.

I don’t use KiCad but software like Altium support modular schematic sheets and PCB rooms so theoretically it can imported into that (since KiCad’s format is open source S-expr)

simojo• 3 months ago

Recently, I made an Arduino UNO that I showed to have better switching characteristics than a commercial board. It was a great project to help me understand how seemingly inconsequential routing practices can lead to issues down the line.

http://www.simonjjones.com/#/posts/golden-arduino

achr2• 3 months ago

I enjoyed your post - PCB routing is often an act of 'zen and the art of..' for me and I recently did a similar exercise for an esp32.

bschwindHN• 3 months ago

You should be able to improve it further with a 4 layer board, as you can have the signal lines closer to their reference planes, and can more easily avoid signals crossing each other and breaking reference planes.

hathawsh• 3 months ago

This is an amazing resource. It was difficult to appreciate what this resource was for until I tried to create my own boards based on an ESP32. It's not really difficult to build around ESP32, it's just that I don't know what I don't know. With starting points like these, I can start with a lot more confidence. Thank you!

hattmall• 3 months ago

Does this help you build a custom PCB that you would send to a factory or like just design and simulate something you could build on your own? Or both / neither? I'm not fully understanding what this project does, could you offer insight?

coryrc2• 3 months ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47927171

numpad0• 3 months ago

This is File -> New Project... -> New Hello World Project. The New Project button in hardware engineering tools often don't have the trailing 3 dots.

I think most low-end projects done in KiCad are not tested beyond making sure there's no red squiggly underlines at a glance. You are your own F5 key and assembler/runtime crash reporter. Proper circuit verification through software simulation isn't needed for most digital designs unless you do your own wireless antenna, analog amps, and/or DRAM/PCIe/GbE/etc.

kreelman2• 3 months ago

Copy that!

Wonderful that there's a Free version of these designs out there. The bugs and kinks will get sorted out over time.

xrd2• 3 months ago

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get started on projects like this, specifically alongside kids (very smart 9-13 in range)?

I got them a 3d printer to move them into more "physical" computing, with mixed results.

Any place to have a gentle introduction to PCB boards?

kaipereira• 3 months ago

I personally love this macropad tutorial and it's how I got into doing circuit board design in highschool: https://hackpad.hackclub.com/. Before doing this, it's really helpful if they have experience messing around with breadboards, so getting them a kit can help them into a soft transition too!

I like to suggest making a macropad, then a keyboard, then going into a devboard, and then starting to make your own projects. But for kids that aren't quite in highschool yet, it can feel quite intimidating and the learning curve is moderately high, so getting them playing with breadboards first might be the best option ;)

Hack Club will also give you a grant to cover the entire cost if your kids are over 13 through their programs like stasis, fallout, or forge (you can check their site for more info)

xrd2• 3 months ago

Thanks so much.

Your blog is great, btw! I expect more great things from you!

I especially enjoyed your repo on your custom keyboard. My kids are crazy about keyboards. If you taught I class I would definitely sign them up!

contingencies• 3 months ago

Strongly feel the logical progression is: (1) Wiring third party devices and modules to an existing MCU board and programming it (2) Making a PCB to plug modules and the MCU board in to (3) Making a PCB with integrated peripherals and only plugging the MCU board (4) Making making a whole board with everything.

The MCU is typically far more fiddly than the devices (eg. crystals, storage, buses with conditioning, power stages, etc.), so continuing to plug the MCU in to a PCB while integrating peripherals is a good. You really need to be able to read a datasheet to do a nontrivial board and that brings in quite a few elements of electronics which are nontrivial for kids to grok without hand-holding and a lot of explanation.

Pick an MCU with easy USB-C programming. RP2040 is a good modern option.

poetaster2• 3 months ago

Strongly agree. I have a number of projects (RP2040/RP2350) where I stick to using the piggy back mcu because it's actually cheaper than doing the whole design with small quantities (<50). Not to mention, much less complex.

zamalek3• 3 months ago

Breadboards[1] with breakout boards[2] (the Pi Pico in particular is incredible, having an unusually detailed and correct datasheet). MicroPython is probably a great way for gets to get started on the compute side of things. Once you have something working on a breadboard then you can "graduate" to PCB design (and there's nothing wrong with designing the PCB to take a breakout daughterboard) - possibly perfboard as an intermediate step. Use KiCAD - it's Blender-tier open source software. A high quality breadboard and wires are very important - I guess diagnosing a loose connection is a learning experience, but it would be an overall hindrance to learning if encountered frequently.

Have many spares of all components (including breakout boards) handy - they will probably summon the magic smoke a few times.

They will likely quickly need to learn how to read data sheets. You can often get away with copying the "typical application" and avoiding the real technical stuff.

Friendly reminder: those brains are still developing. Adequate exhaust is extremely important (even if you are using solder-free, flux fumes are varying levels of toxic). You want those fumes going out of the window, not via a filter into the same room. Any complaints about headaches are serious: you aren't extracting the fumes correctly. There are a few important things to know about soldering: "there is no such thing as too much flux," "solder likes to flow towards heat," and "heat the thing and apply the solder to the thing (not to the iron)" (to keep the technique at its most basic).

The often recommended Hakko FX-888D is just plain awful. The Pinecil is way better (yes, even though its a fraction of the price) or the TS100/TS101.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadboard [2]: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-pico/

sitzkrieg• 3 months ago

the hakko fx-88 series is great. use one full time with zero issues. not sure what parent is on about, this is not a shared opinion in industry

derefr• 3 months ago

I would point out that for the Pico (RP2040) and Pico 2 (RP2350) in particular, there's not only a datasheet, but also first-party tutorials that walk you through laying out a minimal reference board design:

Pico 1 (RP2040): https://pip.raspberrypi.com/documents/RP-008279-DS-hardware-...

Pico 2 (RP2350): https://pip.raspberrypi.com/documents/RP-008280-DS-hardware-...

These tutorials in turn contain links to KiCad schematics + layout files for the boards they walk you through developing, for you to check your work against.

otaviogood• 3 months ago

for an introduction to the CAD software, Kicad, which this project uses, I really liked "Shine on you crazy Kicad": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMW9ohCbcik&t=27s It takes you from basics to buying a PCB from the manufacturer.

poetaster2• 3 months ago

I do workshops with kids occasionally. Last week, 4 13 year old boys. In this case I did breadboarding with them first and then showed them the transfer to fritzing -> breadboard -> schematic -> pcb. https://fritzing.org/ If you're looking for stuff they might find fun, logic noize (for instance https://hackaday.com/2015/03/09/logic-noise-sawing-away-with... ) has a bunch of fun cmos audio tutorials with great videos. Personally, I build audio toys, both analog and digital (mostly pi pico2) and still mostly use fritzing for the breadboard education element, but kicad if I need smd positioning and the like.

Liftyee• 3 months ago

Neat project. These popular "commodity" devboard designs have been remixed and copied so much that it was just missing an open-source design to slot into many existing projects. I can imagine designing a board using one of these designs as a "template" but adding whatever capabilities I need, then knowing it fits a standard footprint.

JKCalhoun• 3 months ago

Yeah, I've designed PCBs around PCBs—most recently around the LILYGO T-Display because it had an integrated LCD. I ended up adding my own DACs to the "mother" board though. It would be nice to have a single PCB that combined the best of both.

(I still wonder if I could compete on final cost though.)

zamalek3• 3 months ago

Awesome! It's been a while, but my next level of learning was designing PCBs without breakout boards (and I had several failed revisions). This will be great to learn from.

ofrzeta• 3 months ago

This is great. One of my goals is "create my own ESP32 PCB" however I am lacking the knowledge to do so. I was hoping to get some help by an LLM but people here said it's not that great in PCB layout. Still I will try Kicad with MCP :)

Sure I am willing to learn but I need a more efficient path than a complete EE degree. I guess you can get quite far with a reference design but I understood that there's a lot to learn about ground layers, trace widths and so on.

aaronmdjones• 3 months ago

A substantial portion of the things you need to know about layout are summarised quite nicely in the 4 YouTube videos in a previous comment of mine

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44549063

Note that the audio in the first video doesn't start until 40 seconds in.

maufl• 3 months ago

One thing I learned the hard way is the antenna must not lie on your PCB! Even if it's just board without copper. I didn't see this stated anywhere, but once you look, every devkit is doing that, the antenna sticks over the PCB. When I had it on the PCB I had very bad connectivity and very high power usage.

nchie• 3 months ago

I haven't made a ESP32 design, but I recently learnt KiCad and PCB design enough to do a RP235x board with a non-reference design choice (1.8v VDDIO). I only used the official hardware guide + LLMs for questions, and had it work on the first try - it wasn't too hard!

fsniper2• 3 months ago

I agree LLMs are exceptionally helpful on this.

fsniper2• 3 months ago

I have built one PCB with esp32-s3-wroom-1. Usb line is working and I can program the mcu module. However I could not make the ip5306 auto start on battery yet. And I am still unable to get audio from pcm5102a + pam8403 pipeline.

What I have well learned is It's a hard, time consuming and relatively expensive hobby.

Perhaps we could help each other?

protocolture• 3 months ago

I have a similar goal. After having an argument over a simple circuit design with an LLM, I cant recommend it for PCB design for a while.

dvh• 3 months ago

I noticed these boards always use LDO with 5.5Vin max, why not use higher value like HT7533 (30V), it's only $0.02 more expensive and you can use it with 9V battery or 12V battery, or 2 lithium in series, or hack, even 4 fresh AAA are over the 5V limit. The other extreme is using *1117 LDO which has massive dropout like 1.1V which makes it them impossible to use with single lithium battery.

jpleger• 3 months ago

The really awesome thing about these being in simple reference designs, is how easy it is to swap out things like that. I really like how they have things laid out, and will be using this as a reference for jr. folks on how to lay out logical blocks in KiCad.

I have often thought how awesome it would be to have a bunch of proven / validated / supported open source blocks for common things like power supplies, sensors, etc. I think that at some point digikey or someone had a modular board that you could mix and match stuff into a reference design, but I can't remember the details.

ThomIves• 3 months ago

I am eager to check this out. Thanks for sharing it!

Easyduino: Open Source PCB Devboards for KiCad

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