Under the hood of Windows 8, or why desktop users should upgrade from Windows 7

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/138177-under-the-hood-of-windows-8-or-why-desktop-users-should-upgrade-from-windows-7

by evo_9 • 14 years ago

274 179 14 years ago

extremetech.com

gutyril• 14 years ago

"...and unproven tablet market." that's so true.

code_duck2• 14 years ago

Maybe they thought italicizing it made it seem more realistic.

chc2• 14 years ago

Are you trying to suggest that the market for Windows tablets is well proven?

knowtheory• 14 years ago

A meta-comment:

I'm really pleased to see an article like this at the top of HN. It's informative and side-steps both the marketing bullshit about the metro interface and all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth that metro has engendered.

More like this please.

freehunter13• 14 years ago

Even better, it's an informative article from ExtremeTech. Perhaps their editors have been listening to my tirades here on HN every time a biased, unfair, and completely wrong article is posted.

Reading this article, I kept going back to the top of the page to make sure I was still on ExtremeTech and didn't get rerouted to a different site.

batgaijin• 14 years ago

No no no no no. If Linux people had to put up with crazy shitstorms over Gnome 3 and Unity, Metro most certainly is going to get it's fair share as well.

freehunter13• 14 years ago

Unity and Gnome3 had maybe a year of shitstorms before it died down to some grumblings here and there. Metro has been around for two years, and one year for desktop Metro. It's getting on time to move it along.

chc2• 14 years ago

It may be that complaints over Metro are inevitable, but that doesn't mean these "crazy shitstorms" are such worthwhile reading that they deserve a spot on HN.

tjoff2• 14 years ago

Difference is that you are not even supposed to use metro on your workstation and that you still have the best window manager on the market alongside metro.

Unfortunately, the same can't be said for Gnome 3 or Unity. They seriously believe that you'd want that for everything.

Joeri• 14 years ago

Also meta: i appreciate the irony of an informative article about a tablet-friendly OS on a site with the worst tablet presentation of pretty much all mobile-optimized sites I've seen (it took almost a minute to load on my ipad 1, and crashed the browser partway through).

robk2• 14 years ago

"Incidentally, if you want to perform a full “cold” boot (without the kernel being hibernated), simply select Restart from the shutdown menu or run shutdown /s /full /t 0."

Why should it require a command line statement with three switches to simply shutdown?

Sumaso• 14 years ago

Really? Can you explain why you would need to do a full cold boot?

apawloski• 14 years ago

Disk encryption comes to mind (ie you might not want the OS to persist keys that should only exist in RAM), although I haven't investigated this further on Windows 8 yet.

archangel_one3• 14 years ago

Because something has gone wrong at a fairly low level of the OS and you want to reboot to clear it out.

I know theoretically this shouldn't happen, but it does happen all the time - I've not yet seen a system that I've really never ever needed to reboot (excluding my toaster), and previous Windows have not been the least offenders in this regard, so I have no confidence that Windows 8 will be the first where I don't need it.

meaty• 14 years ago

Shutdown /r does the same.

Kerrick• 14 years ago

Did you entirely miss "simply select Restart from the shutdown menu" in those instructions?

robk2• 14 years ago

Restart != shutdown. Yes I read.

learc83• 14 years ago

Whenever someone talks about Windows 8, the question that pops up in my mind is: why include metro in the PC version?

Why would I use anything but the Desktop mode? I can already make apps fullscreen if I want, but I definitely don't want to be limited to only fullscreen mode.

So what advantage does Metro have for a desktop user?

avolcano• 14 years ago

None.

Zero.

This is why I don't understand, say, the Verge's positive Windows 8 review. Sure, the desktop is still "usable." If you ignore Metro, it becomes an over-engineered full screen start menu.

And somehow, having the most massive upgrade to Windows be, at best, ignoreable on desktops and laptops doesn't make Windows 8 instantly a massive failure?

freehunter13• 14 years ago

The usability of Metro is there for the tablet market. The people who don't need a PC and have decided they will not use a PC anymore. PCs are complex and confusing to many casual users. We thought it would get better with education, but we still have millions of young adults who grew up with computers yet are completely unable to function with any slight change. It's easier for them, for one reason or another, to completely jump ship to a tablet.

The Metro interface on a PC is designed to stem or reverse that trend. Why jump to a tablet when you can stay with the PC and use it like a tablet? Or better yet, when your tablet IS your PC, and your PC is a tablet. Metro is useful. Maybe not to me, maybe not to you, but we're a small subset of users. There are many who don't tolerate the desktop.

hnriot• 14 years ago

You are glossing over all the non-metro reasons like the security and performance.

jiggy20117• 14 years ago

Perhaps it's more to do with application compatibility. If they create 2 separate OSs with different UI systems then you require developers to create 2 different versions of their applications if they want to target tablets and desktops.

A big selling point of Windows has always been "use the same OS at home and at work". If MS are guessing that home users will largely go for WinRT devices over full on Windows 8 boxes they lose that advantage if there is too much fragmentation as you will have completely seperate app ecosystems for each.

It is also an OS for hybrid devices such as the Intel based Surface tablet.

muuh-gnu• 14 years ago

> why include metro in the PC version?

To leverage the Desktop monopoly to force users to get familiar with the interface of Microsofts mobile offerings, which had no success to gain user acceptance on their own.

> Why would I use anything but the Desktop mode?

Because the start menu will be removed to force you to switch to metro to start desktop applications. You will use it (and get familiar with it) whether you want it or not.

> So what advantage does Metro have for a desktop user?

Nobody claimed any such advantage in the first place.

freehunter13• 14 years ago

To leverage the Desktop monopoly to force users to get familiar with the interface of Microsofts mobile offerings, which had no success to gain user acceptance on their own.

FUD.

Because the start menu will be removed to force you to switch to metro to start desktop applications. You will use it (and get familiar with it) whether you want it or not.

FUD.

Nobody claimed any such advantage in the first place.

Incorrect.

Edit - While you're downvoting me, I'd like to point out the statements that I quoted from the parent. They're a slippery slope argument at best, and patently false at the worst. There is no indication that Microsoft will be removing the desktop. There's no indication that Microsoft is trying to unconscionably leverage their desktop monopoly into the mobile world via Windows (any more than any other company hopes to). And yes, people have claimed (and I think successfully) that Metro is useful for end users. Ask yourself if you agree with his statements, and then if they're backed up by any actual facts. I believe he's spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt just to settle a personal vendetta.

sigkill2• 14 years ago

Regarding point #1: I think that's the only thing going on for Microsoft. For instance, I have Windows 8 on a laptop. After using that for a while, my mom atleast appeared quite comfortable using a Windows phone at the mall.

Not to repeat the same point again and again, but this could definitely be Microsofts' moment of truth. Basically, I feel MS is going all in, double or nothing or whatever other comparison you want to pull out.

The problem is, if it works, people will laud MS for their bold move. If it spectacularly blows up in their faces, everyone will spare no words in saying "They should've known. It was obvious. People were complaining way before they even launched."

I personally feel MS is at that point in time where services and hardware each are taking value away from the software and they feel desperate to throw anything at the wall. I'm also pretty sure that they don't really expect the Enterprise folks to use Metro so I wouldn't be really surprised if somewhere down the line, they release an "Enterprise/Professional" only service pack that allows you to boot to Desktop.

MatthewPhillips• 14 years ago

I agree with points #1 and #2 but disagree with point #3. But that's not interesting, what's interesting is that it might actually work. Or at least, it seems very plausible to work.

memnips2• 14 years ago

In regard to #1, Microsoft wants to leverage their desktop monopoly to force users into the Metro ecosystem thus forcing developers to build Metro apps.

I don't believe it's to get users comfortable with Microsoft's interface on mobile offerings though that is clearly a side-effect.

brigade• 14 years ago

I still don't get the obsession with hidden controls. Why couldn't they have kept the start button, even with the current Windows 8 functionality. Instead you must guess that a hidden button appears if you move the cursor to one of two corners of the screen, and are careful to not move too far away from the screen edge as you move to click it.

It's not the only example of critical core functionality being hidden and undiscoverable by default, but it's certainly the most glaring.

darklajid• 14 years ago

Replying to the your first point, 'getting familiar with the mobile interface':

How? Seriously?

I'm using both Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012 (same .. thing, for this comparison) and I fail to see what you mean.

In Windows 7 I did these steps to launch an application:

- Press 'Windows' (Super, whatever) button

- Type application name

- Enter

In Windows 8 / Windows Server 2012 I need these steps:

- Press 'Windows' (Super, whatever) button

- Type application name

- Enter

Yeah, the UI is different while I type. But it's on the same level as moving from Launchy on Windows XP to just using the start menu in Windows 7: The interface is really just presentation and not that relevant.

Metro isn't good for anything else, for all I can tell. There's no bait. It's .. useless. First thing to do is Windows/Super+D to get to the desktop. There you need Windows/Super for the 'launcher', Windows/Super + w for a launcher for the control panel/settings apps and Windows/Super + x (neat shortcuts, thing lean start menu) and Windows/Super + i (uhm.. For .. shutdown? That's what I use that for).

So as a user of two 'metro' platforms I disagree heavily with your opinion. I don't think that this is happening, I don't think that this could happen and I really, really doubt that someone placed a bet on this, coming from their mobile platform.

joenathan9• 14 years ago

I like the casualness of the Metro apps. It's easier and faster to click on the Netflix app than to open Firefox and then load the Netflix webpage. I also like some of the News apps, again it's fast and easy to catch up on some of the headlines, I also like the weather app, in two clicks(1.Hot corner start screen, 2.weather app) I can quickly see the forecast for the whole week. I also like some of the casual games.

I am about as a hardcore Desktop user as it gets, I have a custom build pc with 3 screens, custom mouse & keyboard shortcuts, steam, Photoshop & Dreamweaver user, etc...

I've been using Windows 8 since the Developer previews, and while some things have taken a while to get used to(like the hot corners), I'd have to say overall Windows 8 is a step up from Windows 7 in every way, I would hate to go back to 7. The Start Screen makes the Start Menu seem archaic.

Some pics of my setup:

http://i.minus.com/iqRDyV3Cdz4M3.jpg

http://i.minus.com/iUyzL0SkQgSD5.jpg

http://i.minus.com/ibsaj7IkT3usDj.jpg

http://i.minus.com/i2xfTeTriMwQ8.jpg

jiggy20117• 14 years ago

Couldn't you do those things in Windows 7 by docking applications or web shortcuts to your taskbar?

SkyMarshal5• 14 years ago

>I've been using Windows 8 since the Developer previews, and while some things have taken a while to get used to(like the hot corners)

Out of curiosity, is there anything the hot corners can do that you can't do using the Windows key launcher?

akmiller• 14 years ago

I can only offer my opinion obviously, but I like the information that can be available at a glance. Launching my most often applications are also 1 click away instead of 2 or 3. However, that being said, my favorite part of Windows 8 (so far) is how keyboard friendly it is. I use OSX, Ubuntu, and now Windows 8 daily and I think they have all gotten to a state where if you like your hands to rarely leave the keyboard you can work within all 3 very well.

Back to your original point though, I would suggest trying it out for a week or so. I was hesitant as well, but so far it seems very natural and fluid to me. Even scrolling sideways to see more tiles just feels very natural.

SkyMarshal5• 14 years ago

>I use OSX, Ubuntu, and now Windows 8 daily and I think they have all gotten to a state where if you like your hands to rarely leave the keyboard you can work within all 3 very well.

Yes, this. I love that all are converging on a keyboard-centric UI. This is sort an unreported event, overshadowed by the Metro and Unity rucus, and probably not important to the mainstream, but as a power user I'm really glad to see it finally happening.

sukuriant7• 14 years ago

Microsoft employee here.

I'm using various versions of Windows 8 on various machines: Release Preview at home and RTM at work. While most of my work is on the desktop, I have gradually reformed my start menu into groups of different concepts.

The different groups I'm using, in order, from left-to-right:

* The store, desktop and various super-commonly used tools such as remote desktop and web browsers.

* A few "neat to look at 'real quick" live tiles, including Finance and Weather.

* Development tools and communication programs, so Lync and Visual Studio and Fiddler.

* Misc SDET specific tools

* Another group with all of the repositories I work with

* Windows 8 apps that I've bought/downloaded from the store for various reasons

In all, I can see 41 app tiles without scrolling, both large and small, all of them are easily identifiable and relatively easy to reach. Since they are all large buttons (compared to your normal start menu shortcuts), I can swing my mouse over toward them, rather than dexterously follow a series of menus. It's different, but relatively easy. For my work, I would liken it to pressing [windows] + D to see the desktop, clicking on an icon and then having that different application load.

Honestly, I've grown to like it.

modarts• 14 years ago

I'm still having a difficult time understanding why any user who has figured out how to hit the window key and start typing an application name would find browsing across oversized tiles to be a more efficient application launching experience on a desktop.

Window Key + "Su" + Enter -> Sublime Text 2 is open

vs.

Mouse over on the bottom left of the screen + Click + Wait for Metro interface to pan into view + Wheel over a horizontally scrolling screen of tiles scanning for a "Development Tools" group + Find Sublime Text 2 + Click -> Sublime Text 2 is Open

memnips2• 14 years ago

>> In all, I can see 41 app tiles without scrolling, both large and small, all of them are easily identifiable and relatively easy to reach.

In practice, I find seeing so much quite overwhelming. Is seeing 41 app tiles - many animated - actually a good thing? My ability to scan and make sense of the Start Screen is quite low. I find it grades on my senses as time passes and every visit to the Start Screen becomes less and less pleasant.

And regarding scrolling, on the desktop are we not used to vertical scrolling? I find it odd when my vertical scroll wheel action results in a horizontal scroll. It's harder to scan while scrolling.

Lastly, regarding have to "dexterously following a series of menus" using a mouse - is it really that hard? Did the MS research say users are unable to use a mouse effectively? I assumed the tiles are huge because a finger is much larger than a mouse pointer, and the Start Screen UI is designed as a touch-first experience.

pbz• 14 years ago

"Honestly, I've grown to like it."

One thing I've learned while designing UIs is that if it takes a techy X amount of time to figure something out, it takes between X * 10 to X * 100 for a regular person, so you really want to aim for a super super intuitive interface; and they won't try forever.

smacktoward2• 14 years ago

why include metro in the PC version?

Because Microsoft is getting ready for the future, where non-PC computing devices will be far, far, far more important to most peoples' lives than PCs.

Windows 8 is the beginning of Microsoft's play to be on those devices. That means that design considerations to make it work nicely on "post-PC" devices take precedence over design considerations to make it work on PCs.

Windows 8 isn't a PC operating system with device-friendly concessions bolted on. It's a device operating system with PC concessions bolted on. The idea presumably is that the PC desktop piece of it will get smaller and less important as time goes on, then eventually become completely redundant and easy to drop altogether.

In other words, the plan is to do to the WIMP interface what they did with the CLI interface of MS-DOS. Its death will be slow, quiet, and (they hope) painless. But it is definitely going to die.

morsch2• 14 years ago

Of course, CLI aren't dead and are in fact still going strong in certain areas. The same will remain true for WIMP in the forseeable future.

JBiserkov2• 14 years ago

You can 'snap' a metro app (music, IM) alongside a maximized desktop app. It's great. I've wanted that for some time now.

http://biserkov.com/files/snap.png

tallanvor• 14 years ago

Because Microsoft sees tablets as a type of PC, not an overgrown phone like Apple and Google. They want a unified experience.

Also? With the "metro" interface as part of the core OS, they're basically forcing manufacturers to start including touchscreens in laptops and to start selling touchscreen monitors. Which isn't exactly bad for manufacturers since it means people will want to upgrade.

Those are my opinions, at least. Personally, I agree that without a touchscreen, the new interface is annoying.

shinratdr• 14 years ago

> Which isn't exactly bad for manufacturers since it means people will want to upgrade.

Just like people clamoured for 3D, right?

You can't force consumers to appreciate a feature by just insisting it's better. Touch screens won't move laptops just like they don't move all-in-one desktops right now.

Nobody wants to manipulate an upright screen with an outstretched arm. It's a completely unnatural thing to do, and the complete opposite of everything we've learned about the UX. Your hands need to resting when you're operating, or else all you're thinking about is when you'll be able to rest your hands.

outside1234• 14 years ago

You kind of have to try it to see why. i like the new "start menu" in Metro - its easy to move things around to prioritize and search easily for apps by just typing the name of the app.

I want to hate on it but its actually pretty good.

pedalpete• 14 years ago

You have to consider that not all desktop users are alike. Everybody uses internet, mail, and a few other apps, maybe skype, facebook, netflix, office, things like that.

The metro UI is great for these tasks. It's easy to understand in the current tablet paradigm and those common uses across all users means Microsoft has actually simplified a large percentage of the use cases. Don't tell me you can look at a metro homescreen and not know what to do.

Now, for those of us on HN (I suspect the majority are programmers or sysadmins, or somebody else who wants/needs to get into the guts of the OS), they've got the old familiar WIN32 based OS behind the Metro UI.

Essentially, I suspect the challenge is that it will feel a bit like desktop stuff is virtualized, as I don't think you're running Metro & desktop apps side-by-side (but I don't know as I haven't used Win8 yet).

The important thing to realize is that Microsoft won't be around in a few years if they only catered to those people who are comfortable with the old desktop.

We're getting touchscreens on computers now, and Kinect interfaces I'm sure aren't far behind. The desktop will remain for the small percent of us that use it for work, but I wouldn't be surprised if I use metro much of the time. My concern is how am I going to feel jumping back and forth.

conradfr• 14 years ago

MS say Windows 8 eliminates most reboots needed by OS upgrades. Great, but didn't they already say that for Win7 ?

The new Task Manager looks great though, and the document history might be proven to be useful.

I think I'll wait Windows 9 to upgrade my desktop & laptop.

freehunter13• 14 years ago

My main issue with Windows 8 updates is that, yeah it's nice that it tells you when it needs to reboot for updates and when that is going to happen, but I don't feel in control of it at all. I was taking a test online for a class, and the notice popped up that it was going to reboot in 15 minutes. I explicitly did not reboot before the test because I figured I could delay the reboot. It didn't give me that option. I started flying through the test in the hopes that I could finish in time. I didn't. Halfway through the test, the PC reboots without ever giving me an option to make it wait.

There might be an option in the settings menu, but most time I want it to reboot automatically. Occasionally I would like to defer that for another 15 minutes.

joenathan9• 14 years ago

Windows 8 gives you three days from the time it installs an update and until it forces a reboot, 3 days. If you don't like that then you have many options, to say "I don't feel in control of it at all" is pretty ridiculous when you have all these options http://i.minus.com/i4uIsZYCj4oek.jpg

Karunamon2• 14 years ago

  c:\> net stop wuauserv

solnyshok• 14 years ago

hurry, Windows 9 might never appear :) I, for one thing, am going to use that $40 upgrade offer on a 3 Xp/W7 machines.

dested• 14 years ago

"In Windows 8, Metro apps run on top of a new application architecture called WinRT, which is a low-level set of APIs that run just above the Windows kernel. WinRT is the Metro equivalent of Win32, which is the API that Desktop apps use. "

Didnt we just read an article yesterday about how this isnt true? WinRT is built on top of win32, not parallel.

manojlds• 14 years ago

I trust Scott Hanselman - WinRT is built on top of Win32 - http://www.hanselman.com/blog/HowToCallWinRTAPIsInWindows8Fr...

Another blog that says the same - http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/sasha/archive/2011/09/15/...

reddiric• 14 years ago

It's both. WinRT is an ABI as well as a set of tools. The WinRT API can be implemented as wrappers around Win32 APIs (as would make sense for functionality in the WinRT surface area that mirrored applicable functionality in the Win32 surface area) or new code (as would make sense for new functionality).

nemo1618• 14 years ago

Neat, I've been using Win8 since the first preview was released and I still learned some new tricks. File History, for instance, looks handy if you can afford the storage space. And I wasn't aware you could refresh from a user-created image; how exactly does it differ from a system restore though?

mertd2• 14 years ago

What is the deal with boot time as an OS metric? Is it really important to boot 5 seconds faster than the previous iteration?

wtallis2• 14 years ago

It's an obvious measurable performance indicator that shouldn't get worse without a very good explanation, and when it gets significantly better, indicates that the developers are capable of optimizing something. Often times, boot time improvements can be partially due to optimizations that help during ordinary use as well.

OriginalSyn• 14 years ago

When the OS forces a reboot after 3 days of an update if you don't manually do it yourself it can be important.

sukuriant7• 14 years ago

That's a fair question. Personally, I'm impressed with how fast my machine boots up. It's certainly better than minutes/near-minutes my old machine used to.

The same could be said about a few milliseconds when loading a web page; but Google Chrome does really weird (but awesome!!) network adapter/caching hacks to get those few milliseconds, and many people are grateful for it.

And, 5 seconds on newer machines is a lot more time on older machines.

(Disclosure, since the topic is on it: Microsoft employee. The remarks are my own, not the company's, blah blah)

JeremyMorgan• 14 years ago

This is the equivalent of a plain looking girl dying her hair some crazy color.

Personally I don't understand this concept of forcing a clunky and strange UI on people and having change just for the sake of change. Both suffer from huge amounts of backlash, yet their creators stand by it, for one simple reason: They have to change, so things don't appear stale. These interfaces aren't better, they're just new.

It's really that simple, we've had 10 years of the same type of interface in Windows, Linux and OSX and they need something new. Apple of course knows they have something good with OSX and are unwilling to slap their users in the face, and they generally don't fix what is broke.

B-Con• 14 years ago

> Personally I don't understand this concept of forcing [...] on people and having change just for the sake of change

Welcome to development, where anything over 24 months is old news and needs to be made different. Not better, just different.

It's kind of a plague in the industry. Things change just for the sake of it. I'm all for changing to make things better, but a large sect of development seems obsessed with new just because... new.

seunosewa• 14 years ago

s/girl/person

grannyg00se• 14 years ago

One of the best windows 8 articles I've read to date. This actually has me considering an upgrade for the anti-virus/malware as well as the faster boot, leaner run-time, and Hyper-V included.

I'll definitely go check it out at some retailer to see if I think I can get over (or minimize) the horrid multi-tile slate touchpad-friendly floating window interface.

thomaslutz2• 14 years ago

I tried the final Windows8 (64bit) from DreamSpark in the latest VirtualBox again today (after giving the RC a shot). There were improvements, but it was slow as hell and finally crashed hard when I tried starting the Maps application. And it was gone as fast as it was installed. Perhaps it is usable after SP1, but it certainly isn't usable (for me) now.

SkyMarshal5• 14 years ago

You should try installing it directly the hardware of the same machine, I'd be interested to know whether it's VirtualBox issue or something else.

thomaslutz2• 14 years ago

Unfortunately that is not an option right now, because it's my production machine with Windows7 as a host and some other VMs currently running. The machine should be powerful enough with a Quadcore i7 and 12GB RAM, though. Perhaps it really is a VirtualBox issue.

joestringer• 14 years ago

Anyone else familiar with "Arbitrary Free Protection"? 'cause it's only turning up one search result for me.

Someone• 14 years ago

So, who is right? Ars Technica claims WinRT runs on top of Win32 (http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/10/windows-8-and-winrt-...), this text claims it runs just above the kernel.

Also, completely unrelated: I hope that 'single keypress' for resetting your PC to a blank slate is somewhat exaggerated. If it isn't, leaving your PC alone for seconds becomes truly dangerous (yes, technically there is no difference; giving anybody local access to your PC puts your files at risk, but having a system make vandalism easier? I sure hope it asks for your password first)

robomartin• 14 years ago

From the article:

"By installing Windows 8, companies will implicitly force its employees to use a new interface that could severely dent productivity. "

This is, by far, the biggest issue with Windows 8. And, at least for me, the most confusing aspect of Microsoft's decision making process.

I would be surprised if ANY business with more than two employees willingly shifts their PC's to Windows 8. Imagine having one hundred employees grind to a halt due to the UI shift. Deadly.

I would really love to have the opportunity to hear from Microsoft on this one. Why is it that we don't even have an option to disable Metro (or tablet mode, or whatever they want to call it) on a desktop system? What was the logic behind that decision, if any?

barista2• 14 years ago

While there are many enterprises that have willingly adopted the iPhone and later iPad in their organizations. The lost productivity due to a different UI is a misconception. What is important is legacy application support which I think continues to be there in Windows 8.

sliverstorm• 14 years ago

It may actually turn out to be controllable via group policy. I swear you can control just about anything with GP. So, enterprise may have that option.

magoon• 14 years ago

Windows 8 is so good

at-fates-hands• 14 years ago

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming a but of a Windows FanBoi.

After using Win 8 for a few weeks now, this article confirmed some of the things I was seeing, but not sure if it was just me seeing a new shiny toy or it really was happening.

The two things I've already noticed are it starts up a lot faster, and comes back from sleep a lot faster as well. It's also a lot more stable. Almost no crashes when I was running several Adobe apps at the same time. I'm running with 4GB RAM and was impressed with the performance. I can only imagine how well it would run under a much faster processor and even more RAM. The real winners will be desktop users for sure.

Losing the Start button was not a huge issue. I use an app launcher and just hitting the WIN button takes you to the main metro screen with all your apps. It's not hardly as confusing as everybody is crying about.

Under the hood of Windows 8, or why desktop users should upgrade from Windows 7

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