Reddit Readies For ‘Inter-website War,’ Major Subreddits Ban Links to Gawker

http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-readies-for-brewing-inter-website-war-bans-links-to-gawker-media/

by iProject • 14 years ago

41 84 14 years ago

omgsean3• 14 years ago

Violentacrez is a scumbag and the fact that redditors are willing to stand behind him as some sort of show of reddit brotherhood is a large part of the reason why I don't go there much anymore.

danielweber7• 14 years ago

0. Violentacrez sure seems to be disgusting, based on his online persona.

1. If you stand for free speech, you are going to be defending assholes and thugs and people who say disgusting things. We don't need free speech for people who emit rainbows. The ACLU defended the KKK's right to march, not because they thought the KKK was a bunch of nice guys or that the KKK would ever return the favor if the ACLU were in trouble.

2. It's more about the doxxing, which seems to be the one legal thing that isn't allowed on reddit. Either they have the policy that doxxing is horrible or they don't.

eli2• 14 years ago

I absolutely believe the KKK has a right to march. But I also wouldn't participate, even as a spectator.

girlvinyl5• 14 years ago

Re: Freespeech. No one is asking the government to censor reddit. Users are taking things into their own hands because the private company that owns reddit refuses to moderate completely inappropriate material. The system is working just as it should.

rmc5• 14 years ago

If you stand for free speech…

There are numerous different defintions of free speech. Some countries draw the line in different places. E.g. in the USA, you cannot say "shout fire in a crowded theatre", and there are various laws against revelaing some USA military knowledge. All "right to free speech" laws have limits, as they should.

It's more about the doxxing, which seems to be the one legal thing

Here's a thought, in the EU, we have data protection/privacy law. It's illegal to release personal details of people unless it's within the law. I wonder is doxing illegal?

thwest3• 14 years ago

Regarding point 1: You are absolutely misguided. I have no obligation to defend them disgusting things until it is the government that is prosecuting the speech, rather than the community.

We have a moral obligation to protect free speech from government intrusion.

We have an equal or greater moral obligation to personally confront the KKK, and sexual predators in order to enforce moral standards within our community.

The government's job is to make sure we both get to speak, and don't kill each other over the disagreement. The first amendment has nothing to do with protecting KKK members from public shaming and expulsion for the views they profess.

koeselitz• 14 years ago

>> 2. It's more about the doxxing, which seems to be the one legal thing that isn't allowed on reddit. Either they have the policy that doxxing is horrible or they don't.

I guess the question is whether that is a sensible policy. It may make sense to protect anonymity - I can see that - but does it make sense to protect nothing else? Is anonymity really the only true community value?

tzs2• 14 years ago

> If you stand for free speech, you are going to be defending assholes and thugs and people who say disgusting things.

Violentacrez's speech rights do not automatically trump the privacy rights of his victims. His ideas and opinions can be communicated via speech that does not violate the rights of others, and so when balancing his speech rights against their privacy rights I'd favor the privacy rights.

watty• 14 years ago

Free speech? Free speech would be not banning Gawker and allowing Gawker to doxx the scumbag. Free speech, right?

Peroni4• 14 years ago

Anyone who attempts to defend the guy's actions on Reddit is an idiot and it was only a matter of time before someone brought their anger into the real world HOWEVER an individual is one thing, a reputable, established company is a totally different situation.

Sure they are media and sure the media loves a witch hunt but the bottom line is that their actions are threatening and it's blatant blackmail. In my opinion their actions are as disgusting as their targets online activity.

Evbn3• 14 years ago

Implies that Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson are idiots.

thedrbrian• 14 years ago

Who is violentacrez?

rmc5• 14 years ago

A reddit user who deleted their reddit account. They used to be moderator of some pretty sleazy subreddits like r/creepshots r/incest, etc,.

Peroni4• 14 years ago

A prominent Reddit user who has been on the site for years and accumulated shit tons of karma and a proportionate amount of controversy. He established really questionable subreddits such as /r/jailbait and /r/incest and was extremely upfront about his motivations (claims it was more about exercising his right to free speech than being a pervert). The fact that he deleted his account is considered a big deal in the reddit world given his "reddit fame" and the fact that he was always willing to defend/justify his actions and never back down from said defence.

danielweber7• 14 years ago

This links to a list of subreddits he moderated: http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/118bxy/viole...

Warning: most of those are exactly what it says on the tin. Pics of dead kids is exactly that.

He also claimed to have had sex with his (of legal age) stepdaughter (whom he raised from a very young age).

I suspected a lot of his activity was bluster just to get people riled up, but I think I'm in the minority, and probably completely wrong.

citricsquid4• 14 years ago

Stereotypical internet creep into all manner of "disgusting" things. Although his sexual preferences (and the content he posts) are very questionable, he's not a bad person. I think part of it is he enjoyed the drama, but at the same time he's just some guy with some interests that are beyond what most people deem acceptable.

mnicole4• 14 years ago

I was ready to be on board with this just because Gawker is such a mess, but anyone that follows r/SubredditDrama knows of Violentacruz and r/creepshots just shouldn't exist. I find it surprising that Reddit moderators are going so far as to do this for the sake of someone that is putting hundreds, if not thousands, of women at risk of being stalked or otherwise victimized by the type of people that think there's nothing wrong with posting pictures them to gawk at or make fun of. I really wanted a site like Reddit to work and be able to function without too much politics or this kind of childish crap, but this is really taking the cake and encouraging me to build out another alternative.

There was a great discussion on the implications a subreddit like r/creepshots can have on r/TwoXChromosomes last week. I haven't visited the site yet today, but I'd imagine they just alienated their entire female userbase (myself included), as if the users of that site didn't do enough of that already.

Edit: Can I get explanations for the downvotes?

rjh29• 14 years ago

I don't know if this is a new thing, but /r/creepshots appears to be a banned subreddit.

Peroni4• 14 years ago

There's a few banned subreddits. /r/Jailbait is probably the most high profile banning.

girlvinyl5• 14 years ago

It isn't banned, it was deleted via "Blackmail" according to the subreddit owner.

mnicole4• 14 years ago

I'd rejoice, but history has proven that there's either another one lurking in obscurity or we'll see something similar crop up once the pitchforks are put back down.

fein• 14 years ago

In regards to Violentacrez: Every community has shock jocks. I'm not condoning any of the actions, as that shit truly is creepy on an inhuman scale, but one should understand that without the community support, the guy has nothing.

The ultimate issue is not that an individual like Violentacrez exists, but instead that the community enables it.

> me to build out another alternative.

you could also just fork reddit: https://github.com/reddit/reddit

Adirael3• 14 years ago

This is true, the guy controls a lot of popular subreddits.

I don't go to Reddit anymore and I'm reading less and less comment threads here because of it's leakage.

1273• 14 years ago

What is exactly wrong with taking pictures of clothed people on public places without their knowledge? I thought this happens all the damn time. Before the collective PC hysteria I saw /r/creepshots mostly as an oddity. Strange people doing strange things.

If /r/creepshots gets banned it will be just another step towards suppression of completely legal speech, because of emotional hyperventilation that has no basis in reality.

nemo1618• 14 years ago

I think one redditor put it best: "Why is People of Walmart funny, but /r/creepshots an invasion of privacy?"

citricsquid4• 14 years ago

The difference is sexualisation, which large swathes of America has problems with.

Cushman• 14 years ago

> What is exactly wrong with taking pictures of clothed people on public places without their knowledge?

Serious question: You're a man, right?

Go take a survey of your friends about this. I'll bet you find a strong difference of opinion along gender lines.

Think about why that might be.

mnicole4• 14 years ago

Because it is targeting people for the sole intention of harassing them at a global level. The TwoX thread had a few stories of people finding out second-hand that they were posted on there, how demeaning it was and how powerless they felt to do anything about it. They then had to deal with the repercussions of other friends/family/co-workers coming across it and all of the sleezy or insulting things said in the comments about them. No one deserves that.

Now think if the picture was taken at or around their workplace and what could happen. I can only imagine that there are bottomfeeders out there who went out of their way to try to locate where one of these women was.

While doxxing someone isn't the answer, something needs to be done so that bullies/trolls get the help they need and we can prevent something terrible from happening to one of the people posted.

naner2• 14 years ago

There aren't really any good players here (Adrian Chen is also a horse's-ass). Anyways, these subreddit moderators are trying to protect their community, regardless of who is being targeted.

For people looking for more background on the drama:

http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/118qdg/the_r...

Also note that Saydrah, who appears to be defending him a bit, was a long-time reddit mod (also was an active 2Xer and is pretty pro-women's-rights). She used to be much more active but someone doxed her a couple years ago and found out she was a social-media marketer (including consulting on reddit promotion) and the reddit community turned on her pretty quickly. She was personally harassed and some members of her family were as well. Part of the female community on reddit also turned on her a bit (though not so agressively) when she posed -- in a non-provocative fully-clothed manner -- in the Reddit calendar in 2009.

http://reddithistory.wikia.com/wiki/Saydrah

http://www.reddit.com/r/InternetAMA/comments/11au8g/iama_say...

I got a little off track there but reddit has a pretty rich history with a wild cast of characters. Quite the soap opera.

Needless to say: Violentacerz isn't as one-dimensional as everyone assumes either, but he did do most of the things you've heard about.

citricsquid4• 14 years ago

If I recall correctly the reason the female community turned on Saydrah was not the photos she posted, it was because she tried to manipulate the female community into backing her up by using some really sleazy stuff. She said her gender was the reason behind the situation and nobody agreed and tore her apart for it.

There's a post somewhere, I'll try and locate it. I was an active redditor during the drama.

untog• 14 years ago

I'm in two minds about this, mainly because I have an utter lack of sympathy for both sides.

I'm a regular redditor, and in all honesty I wasn't aware of any of any of this drama- I don't go to any of the creppy, weird subreddits mentioned, and have long since removed /r/politics from my front page. So, "Reddit" isn't readying for anything- just some overly militant subreddits.

potatolicious4• 14 years ago

Ditto, I've only heard very minor murmurs about this, having unsubscribed from all of the default subreddits save /r/gaming. /r/politics, /r/atheism, etc, are just cesspools of ignorance as bad as the people they lampoon daily.

I'm also having a hard time drumming up sympathy for Gawker - they have consistently and repeatedly proven themselves to be complete unprofessionals, have zero journalistic integrity or credibility, and have some of the worst, borderline libelous "reporting" I've seen on any major blogs.

It's like Violentacres and Gawker are built for each other - morally I'd consider them in the same ballpark.

thwest3• 14 years ago

I don't think it is useful to frame this as forums drama (which it certainly is on the surface), but as community self-policing. Yes, /r/politics, /r/atheism and Gawker are pretty similar, featuring shallow identity politics in easily consumable outrage-of-the-day snack packages.

But /r/politics and /r/atheism aren't the targets. Did you see /r/jailbait, /r/upskirt, /r/CreepShots, etc before they were taken down? Do you really put child porn, upskirt photos, and trading strategies for creeping on unsuspecting women in public in the same moral ballpark as shitty journalism?

/r/ShitRedditSays is right to eliminate these communities from Reddit and shame the participants. Sexual predators need to be confronted globally in any forum they are present in, and community confrontation is exactly what most of the offenders need. The presence of Gawker in the affair is a small price to pay to help reduce sexual violence.

sharkweek• 14 years ago

Reddit's defaults are pretty bad -- I think a huge upgrade would be when a first time visitor registers, they are shown SFW r/all and then similar to signing up for Pinterest, asks about your interests, then displays a list of several subs that might be most relevant to your interests. As a rock climbing, coffee loving Seattleite who loves to learn about science, r/climbing, r/coffee, r/seattle and r/askscience are great!

And the Gawker network is after one thing, pageviews. So the more controversy they conjure up the better.

HyprMusic3• 14 years ago

What always worries me is how accurate these dox are? What happens if they wrongly accuse someone? The internet is very unforgiving and it could literally ruin someone's life. They shouldn't be taking vigilante actions like this, especially endorsed by a company like Gawker. Although I disagree with the concept of these subreddits, this should be reported to the police - or worst case confront the users first. There seems to be little indication of this.

Take a look here, someone has already apparently been attacked because of these: http://www.reddit.com/r/CreepSquad/comments/11b39y/modpost_l...

Gawker has proved time & time again that it is a vile, ruthless company, I really wish this is an internet-wide ban.

saryant• 14 years ago

I'm not a fan of Gawker either but as of right now there's no proof provided in the link you posted. While it's possible, it's still just something one guy posted on Reddit.

HyprMusic3• 14 years ago

Agreed, hence why I put "apparently". Regardless of whether there's physical abuse, having your name wrongly sprawled all over the internet calling you a pervert could still ruin someone's life. To be honest, even if you share the same name there could be negative repercussions.

People are going as far as disabling their facebook accounts to keep their personal and professional life separate - at least you have a degree of control on facebook. There's no control over what people associate your name with on the internet.

Evbn3• 14 years ago

The name of the company is Gawker. Ruining lives is how they make their money. Their most famous article is by an intern who went on a date with a guy and then publicly ruthlessly mocked him for having different (prosaic) hobbies from her.

rmrfrmrf6• 14 years ago

> What always worries me

Concern troll red flag.

These people run multiple subreddits dedicated to ruining lives for sexual gratification and celebrity. I couldn't give less of a crap about what happens to them.

HyprMusic3• 14 years ago

Read my post. My concerns are with the wrong people being doxed. As far as I'm aware, Doxing is not a precise art - there's a huge degree of guess work. Guess work tends not to be right 100% of the time.

peto123• 14 years ago

I am also a redditor and some of the subreddits are a really high-quality communities. What I don't understand is, why the reddit owners allow even the most disgusting and inhumane stuff to be posted, as long as it isn't illegal.

I am not sure if it is just because of the personal preference of the owners, or they do not want to waste time with enforcing at least basic civility, or is it some inherent part of the reddit's success that anything not illegal is allowed to be posted there?

It is actually an interesting moral question: Is someone allowed to publicly deanonymize someone else?

engtech• 14 years ago

I was confused because I thought violentacrez was some how related to the now-defunct mommy-blogger-hating blog http://www.violentacres.com/

Just a coincidence, I guess.

And that just goes to show you the danger of writing anonymously on the Internet, the next person to use the same nickname as you might be a drama-causing pedo.

Does anyone know if there's some source for "violent acres / violet acres" that they're both riffing off of?

citricsquid4• 14 years ago

Violentacrez original reddit name was violentacres and was based off of the original one (the person you linked).

danielweber7• 14 years ago

That was the start. One really weird thing at the beginning was that reddit loved the story (probably made up) of violentacres purposefully causing a car crash, but in other threads with different contexts, they would consider people purposefully causing a car crash as completely bad, no other information required.

Reddit Readies For ‘Inter-website War,’ Major Subreddits Ban Links to Gawker

Related Stories