Programmers, Promise Yourself This

by leftnode • 17 years ago

109 75 17 years ago

I can't agree with this more. I despised gym and sports in high school, but in college I gradually took on more physical activity through a bit of martial arts (I was still a total slacker when it came to showing up for training, but it was better than before...) and I really think there's something that all intellectuals can learn through the concentration and coordination required from some sort of intense physical exercise. It's just my theory, but I think that part of the problem for "hackers" is that we tend to have eclectic tastes and conventional sports don't always appeal to us. So, if you don't like the normal sports of baseball, football, etc., seek out something different that's still good exercise. Try ultimate frisbee, or kendo, or rock climbing. You're bound to like something.

gcheong• 17 years ago

For me, it was basically a question of "what is the simplest thing that could possibly work?". I started with just taking a quick lunch and then going for a walk, then I added some running around the block near where I live, and finally I added in some basic body-weight exercises (push-ups, sit-ups, etc).

patio11• 17 years ago

In my case it was a combination of factors, including a doctor advising I urgently make lifestyle changes to avoid premature death. Because nothing concentrates the mind like a well-written bug report with Issue: Programmer Dies flagged at the top.

The actual changes turned out to be fairly simple. I bike daily now, pay a bit more attention to what I eat, and have 45 minutes chiseled out to exercise approximately twice a week. (I really wish I had discovered the Hacker's Diet about, oh, 16 years ago would have been great.) I've never felt healthier, never had objectively better readings on my annual physical, and my personal Trac shows Bug #666 closed.

(Although I'll confess I have Feature Request: Abs still pending.)

jacoblyles• 17 years ago

As in hacking, it helps to have a goal and a project in exercise. I'm finally losing my office gut with Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu.

tsally• 17 years ago

Two main reasons why working is important to programmers in particular:

1.) In general, programming is a well paid, lucrative profession. It takes a long time to learn how to program well, so naturally the rewards are large. However, these rewards really don't mean all that much if you aren't in a position to enjoy them. Becoming a millionaire before you are 40 is cool and all, but most people would rather have a long lifespan full of good health.

2.) Programming naturally leads to a large amount of time sitting down in front of a screen. It is also a pretty high stress job, which often results in excessive use of caffeine or other stimulants. Both of these habits are draining and unhealthy. In the long run they are bad news.

My biggest challenge when working out is the mental focus required. It takes a lot of energy to manage your sleep and eating schedules to the necessary degree. Also, there is a lot of background knowledge and thinking involved in planning proper work out plans. Bottom line is that as a Computer Science student, I work on things that require a large amount of mental focus every day. Adding another item to the list is of course difficult.

Having been in excellent shape only a year or two ago (I was a competitive swimmer in high school), I can say with full confidence that being in shape has a huge impact on how you run the rest of your life. I found that I was able to accomplish much more with my time and take on larger loads because of the discipline I learned through being an athlete. There's no question in my mind that staying in shape is worth it, but the difficulty in doing so should not be ignored. I am still struggling to adjust to the demands of a Computer Science education. In high school swimming competitively pretty much meant working out 4 to 5 hours a day all total. That's simply impossible in college when studying any type of Engineering or Science. I'm sure it's also impossible for a founder/working professional as well. Instead I'm trying to figure out how much I can accomplish with only an hour a day. With proper dieting habits, I'm convinced the hour will be enough, but it is a challenge. It will be worth it, but it's not easy!

Friends I've talked to who also struggle with these types of issues talk about how they don't have time. Obviously I understand that, and I'm sure most readers of news.YC can relate :-). Ultimately though one hour a day is a small price to pay. Mentally programmers are capable of doing some pretty crazy things. Anyone who's done an all night coding marathon to finish a project on time knows what I'm talking about. Getting in shape is simply a matter of redirecting that mental energy towards a different cause.

EDIT: Something I forgot to add. Another big barrier that people face is an aversion to going to the gym, where there are people who are in really good shape. It certainly can be intimidating, but have faith in the fact that your body is biologically designed to respond to regular and difficult work outs. The difference between you and the guy next to you bench pressing twice your body weight is a lot smaller than you think.

medearis• 17 years ago

I particularly agree with your point about caffeine and stimulants. I've found that I very rarely do my best work when I'm all hyped up. Yes, sometimes you have to stay up to finish that last really cool feature or whatever... but most of the time when I go too long I just end up writing bad code that needs to be rewritten the next day anyways.

TrevorJ4• 17 years ago

that's the ONLY time I do work it seems.

TrevorJ4• 17 years ago

We need to start a hacker health site. Hackers know that there is the way everybody does it, and then there is the less obvious, simpler and infinitely cooler way to approach it. The same has got to be true for fitness. I for one hate the idea of driving to a gym to stand next to a bunch of sweaty guys who look like they actually belong there for an hour 6 days a week. There has to be other, more fun way of getting in shape and eating right that will work better in the hacker lifestyle.

gravitycop7• 17 years ago

There has to be other, more fun way of getting in shape

Say hello to 7-OXO DHEA (also known as 7-Keto DHEA): http://www.bulknutrition.com/advanced_search_result.php?&...

http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=4948

Researchers discovered that 7-OXO does not convert to testosterone or estrogen, minimizing androgenic activity, and supports various physiological processes. It is several times more potent than DHEA in stimulating the thermogenic enzymes of the liver, promotes basal metabolism, and helps to increase the lean/adipose ratio.

shaunxcode• 17 years ago

What are the downsides to this stuff? I googled a bit and couldn't find anything particularly detrimental. It even seems have "memory enhancement" attributed to it.

http://www.delano.com/Articles/ketoDHEA.html - this was the most informative page that I could find discussing the benefits and claims against it. Seems to come out on top as being safe and effective though.

oldgregg3• 17 years ago

This seems really interesting--- bizarre that there isn't more research on it. I've also had AMAZING success with Provigil (import from India el-cheapo). It keeps me in the zone for hours on end... with no side effects except for a welcomed slight loss of appetite. I wouldn't have believed you if you told me a drug like it exists, but sure enough...

It's almost like the FDA is plotting against us...

ejs2• 17 years ago

7-keto is not very effective imo, never noticed a thing from it. Dieting is still the easiest way to drop weight.

The pros just go all out and use the hardcore stuff... like GH, DNP, clenbuterol

paulgb• 17 years ago

A hacker approach to health would be interesting.

Apparently John Walker (co-founder of Autodesk) wrote a book on weight loss taking an engineering approach (The Hacker's Diet, http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html). I wonder if anything like that has been written for strength training?

The 100 push-ups plan seemed to appeal especially to hackers, but while it seems like a good start it would be nice if it were a bit broader in scope.

jcl• 17 years ago

Another hackerly exercise page: http://www.shovelglove.com/

amohr• 17 years ago

An old parkour friend of mine started doing 10 pushups on the hour every hour he was awake. Then after a week, he would move up to 11, 12, etc. When he got to 25, he started over with inclined pushups. If you're into rock climbing, you could instead switch to tri-pushups or fingertips. It makes for a really good break from whatever you're working on during the day.

I could never quite get on it due to my classload, but he does probably 100 handstand pushups a day.

Tichy2• 17 years ago

cough Wii Fit cough

Although to be honest I don't really believe in the Wii Fit yet. But if it worked, it should be fun...

gaius2• 17 years ago

It does exist - I've seen it.

tdavis5• 17 years ago

The gym: where everybody is in better shape than you, no matter what shape you're in. It'll take about six months, but you'll get used to the idea ;)

And most of them are very nice and willing to help newcomers. They only look like they're about to send you through the nearest wall.

light3• 17 years ago

I used to exercise a lot in high school but since college I've been doing less and less. Still, I seem to be unable to gain weight, its been like this my whole life, and it doesn't seem to matter what my diet is and how much I eat. My excuse for not exercising is that I would be even skinnier then I already am :)

beza1e1• 17 years ago

Your goal for exercising (and nutrition) could be to gain some muscles. :)

chris11• 17 years ago

Or your reason could be that aerobic exercise makes you smarter.:)

whatusername• 17 years ago

are you strong and fit enough? A few thoughts: * Can you run a short distance without collapsing? * If you're helping a buddy move furniture - are you able to take the heavy end? * If the lift goes out - can you walk up a few flights of stairs without too much effort? * Can you play backyard sport well?

Not everyone wants to be a bodybuilder, and you're probably better off than a lot of overweight hackers, but there's something to be said for being fit.

Or for the opposing view, see Linus (http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/11/healthy-lifestyl...): Best Quote: "And just about every single damn article about it had that annoying "Eat healthy and exercise" note.

I want to kick the next person who says that in the nuts. And I'll call that my exercise for the day (or, to be honest, for the week)."

tdavis5• 17 years ago

I love exercising, particularly weight training, and do it daily. I stopped for about a year, but now that I've developed the habit again I remember how amazing it is to just... feel good about my body and my health. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

critic• 17 years ago

Me too. Except I stopped for about 2 years, and haven't gotten back into it yet. The gym is still collecting my membership fees every month. I should go back just to spite them.

tdavis5• 17 years ago

I got my membership here in September of last year and didn't start going daily until January 1st (I made it a resolution). In my experience, I either go 6 days a week or I go 0. It takes a ton of reinforcement for me to make the habit.

swombat2• 17 years ago

Ditto... I'm on a break at the moment because my house is too far from the gym and I don't want to risk being flattened by an angry bus or cab by biking to it every day - and, perhaps more importantly, I'm too lazy to go out much in the cold and wet London winter.

But I'm planning to move soon, and one of my first priorities while moving will be to find a place close to a gym so I can start weight-lifting again. It does feel absolutely great, and the article is right - it's a scientific/experimentation endeavour. It took me 2 years to figure out how to make my body actually build muscle.

For the record, it turned out to be a combination of the following (and all these ducks needed to be lined up, which is why it took me so long to figure out the winning combination):

- Rely primarily on heavy Squats and Partial Deadlifts (which have to be done very carefully following good form to avoid injury - see http://www.amazon.com/Insiders-Tell-All-Handbook-Weight-Trai... for information) as my core exercises... if I don't do these two, the other weight lifting exercises don't build much muscle for me.

- Over-eat and particularly eat some protein shakes while training (need to ensure there's an abundance of foodstuff for my body to build new muscle)

- Make sure I get at least 8, ideally 9 hours of sleep every night - sleep deprivation == no new muscle tissue

- Train each major muscle group only 1.5 times a week - i.e. 3 times every 2 weeks. More often than that is actually counter-productive.

The benefit of doing all this is feeling fit, feeling great, feeling on top of things. I strongly recommend it to anyone (just make sure you follow safe exercise form - and don't necessarily trust the gym staff about that, I've seen many of them practice or even advise very poor exercise form that will cause injuries in the next 10-20 years).

tdavis5• 17 years ago

I've found the same thing; numerous factors go into muscle gain. For me, I no longer eat as much or as balanced as I did when I was training seriously, which means I don't make the gains I used to. I also lack a partner which means no spotter; I think spotting is a huge help. I'll be surprised if I am back to my old level even within 6 months, which is a really long time just to double the weight I can put up in most exercises.

But you know what? I don't really care. Just the act of going, of noticing slightly flabby parts of me start to iron out after only a month... I'm pretty happy with it. It still makes me sigh, though, when I can't even bench 145.

revorad• 17 years ago

I think cycling in London is not as dangerous or scary as people generally like to believe by default. You can avoid most of the traffic by following cycling routes. Transport for London publishes quite good cycling maps -http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/8966.aspx

I was lazy about cycling for a long time for the same reasons you mention. But now I find that cycling is actually a great way to beat the cold.

And the rain? Well, you just get used to it...

Slowly wheeling around small lanes is also good thinking time, especially at the end of the day.

ia• 17 years ago

i'm a personal trainer, and that is the most succinct and accurate description of the fundamentals of strength training that i have ever read, all the way down to the comment about gym staffers who often don't know what they're talking about. +1. now get back in the gym!

ejs2• 17 years ago

Training muscle more often will not hurt you, in fact I have had some of my best results training more frequently then "3 times every 2 weeks"

Studies have shown protein biosynthesis drops to about 0 approx 48 hours (or less) following the workout. Muscle development cannot occur without protein synthesis (it is muscle development). Commonly you see pro bodybuilder and the such claiming to only exercise muscle groups once per week... which is fine, when you are on anabolics you are in a constant state of protein synthesis.

see:

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/273/1/E99

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/284/1/E76

On a side note, NSAI drugs like Tylenol, asprin, naprox... Will all impede protein synthesis as well, making it almost impossible.

I agree, most gym staff doesn't know what they are talking about... In fact when it comes to exercise very few people seem to have a clue. Most people simply believe the same junk put in magazines and websites with no scientific basis.

biohacker422• 17 years ago

Honest question, with all the exercising and I assume working, how do you get 9 hours of sleep every night?

Radix• 17 years ago

Have you considered calisthenics? (I think it's called something else outside the US.)

I've been interested in this book, I prefer the idea of using your own body weight. And I don't like the idea of going to the gym by myself. I'm not interested in looking like a bodybuilder, with everyone being overweight simply being fit is quite enough.

http://www.amazon.com/Pushing-Yourself-Power-Ultimate-Transf...

modoc• 17 years ago

One trick I found to get myself to the gym was to pick a TV show I liked (Doctor Who or whatever floats your boat) where I was several seasons behind, and I would ONLY watch that show on my iPhone while at the gym doing cardio.

Obviously when you move to the weight machines you can't keep watching the show, but it solved several problems for me:

1) It kept me from getting bored while doing cardio, which is a big issue for me.

2) It made me push for a 40 minute session doing cardio, so I could finish the episode.

3) It made me MUCH more likely to come to the gym the next day, because I wanted to see what happened next (it's good to pick a show with long story arc and end-of-episode cliff-hangers).

tdavis5• 17 years ago

Even better: TVs built into every cardio machine. Far and away the only thing that keeps me running for an hour, I'll tell you that.

wushupork• 17 years ago

I love this post. As a hacker myself I can relate. I did not do much while at school - that pretty much took all my time. Also, "regular" sports did not appeal to me. I started taking up martial arts as soon as I started working and it has completely changed my life. It clears my head, keeps me fit.

I never liked the idea of hitting the gym just so you could have a "beach body". The idea of learning a new skill (or set of skills in my case) appealed to me. Having a fit and healthy body was a side effect. The inverse wasn't true, - lifting weights at the gym wouldn't yield any additional skill so it definitely did not appeal to me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you find the physical equivalent to hacking - whether it's rock climbing, free running, or doing wushu - it's fun and will also keep you in shape.

donw• 17 years ago

Going to the gym does give you some incredible new skills, though, just not in the way you would think. How useful is it to be able to properly pick up very heavy objects, or to be able to outrun 70% of the population? What about the benefit of being more attractive, which does lead itself to more opportunities?

You're definitely right about choosing your own path, though -- as long as you do something to stay in shape, you'll be alright. Any sport can bring useful new skills to the table.

jscn• 17 years ago

This essay by Henry Rollins sums up a number of the 'extra' benefits of strength training/weight lifting nicely. http://www.gittlen.com/rollins.htm

makecheck• 17 years ago

People have more opportunities to stay in shape than they often realize. Walking helps a lot, and is very easy to do; for instance:

- park really far away, every single day at work

- find excuses to walk over to talk to people instead of calling or E-mailing

- use stairs instead of elevators

- when walking from point A to point B, choose an indirect route

- take a walk around the building every day after lunch

- a few days a week, walk around your neighborhood for half an hour

- every time you drive somewhere, walk inside (no drive-throughs)

astrec• 17 years ago

Also, if you take public transport get off one stop early and walk the rest of the way.

gravitycop7• 17 years ago

This reminds me of Azimov noting that he wrote the Foundation Series in his head during his daily walk to his editor's office.

callahad• 17 years ago

For programmers in colder climates and without gym memberships: don't underestimate the value of shopping centers. They're large, climate controlled, and a godsend when the wind chill drops to -40.

TrevorJ4• 17 years ago

I've also had a TON of fun cross-country skiing. If you dress for the weather it is a FANTASTIC workout.

csytan• 17 years ago

That makes me picture programmers in sweatsuits jogging around the mall :)

TrevorJ4• 17 years ago

To add to that here are a couple things I've done to stay active in non-traditional ways:

Rock/Tree climbing (With a harness and proper training)

Paintball/Airsoft -If you can play someplace with no field fee so you can spend a couple hours at it, it can be a good cardio workout. It is also very much a tactical/thinking activity so it engages your brain.

beamso• 17 years ago

Going to the gym after work Monday through Thursday improves my state of mind for the next working day. I've found that it has a huge bearing on my eating habits on those days, and my sleeping habits in general. I eat better and sleep less.

blackguardx• 17 years ago

In my experience, going to a traditional gym to lift weights or run on a treadmill is very boring. I never was able to maintain a traditional exercise program like that for any length of time. However, I have recently found the secret to getting addicted to exercising: sports.

I fell in love with rock climbing about a year ago and feel the need to go at least three times a week. I would go more often, but I am usually too sore from the intense work out. Climbing creates a physical and emotional high that is unmatched by anything I have ever experienced.

I lifted weights in college, but never achieved the muscular definition and level of fitness that I have achieved through rock climbing. It helps create a balance of strength, endurance, and flexibility throughout the entire body. With weight lifting, I could never acquire the discipline to strive for the next weight increment. But with rock climbing, I yearn to be able to complete the next route and am singularly focused on reaching that goal.

It also helps that rock climbing can sometimes be a more social activity that weight lifting.

RiderOfGiraffes2• 17 years ago

I hate exercising. I've always been in good shape, and I've never had to have any kind of exercise regime. But that's changing as I get older. Now I've tried exercising in several different ways, each time giving it a good solid month to get used to it, and I hate it.

Now I've started using the Hacker Diet method of general fitness, and I'm finding it simple, efficient, and unobstrusive. And I feel better. I've also started on the diet itself and I'm losing weight. At 5'10" and 175 pounds I'm targetting losing 35 pounds in the next 6 to 12 months. I've only just started, but I'm on track, and so far it's not a problem.

The Hacker Diet (and exercise) seems to suit me. The gym definitely doesn't, and I'm deeply suspicious of any drugs or supplements.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/chapter1_2_5.html

jacquesm• 17 years ago

Hilarious:

"Even if you're resolute in believing you won't feel one whit better from exercising, you'll certainly concede that you'll feel a whole lot worse after collapsing to the floor with a coronary. I've no direct experience with this particular unpleasantness from life's menu of surprises, but folks I've talked to who have are unanimous that it's best avoided. Those who dropped dead right away were unavailable for comment."

RiderOfGiraffes2• 17 years ago

I liked this:

"The marvelous mechanism that is your body has many signals to let you know when problems arise. If you're exercising and you encounter chest pains, shortness of breath, or other indications that something is awry inside your rib cage, don't ignore them! ... Ignoring these signals from your body is the height of folly. It can lead to all kinds of tedious and exasperating side effects such as sudden death. "

jcs• 17 years ago

Healthy body = healthy mind.

For those who aren't sure of how to spend their gym time most efficiently, and get bored of doing the same old bike/treadmill routine, should check out CrossFit.

A workout is posted every day which is designed to deliver "a fitness that is, by design, broad, general, and inclusive". You can scale the workout to your own abilities and feel encouraged by the knowledge of thousands of others putting themselves through the same pain around the world.

CrossFit would be good enough on its own - having world experts design your training program takes the guesswork out of what to do - but it's the community that makes it special. You've got world class athletes and beginners having interesting and informed discussions on fitness and nutrition.

Take five minutes and see what you think. I've been a convert for two years and it beats all my previous training experience for getting fit and feeling healthy.

http://crossfit.com/

http://www.board.crossfit.com/

alrex021• 17 years ago

I changed my lifestyle by introducing fitness and health about 2 years ago. I suffered from really bad migraines at least once a month. Now I get them about once a year if at all.

I'm a programmer too and here is my story. Blog a bit out of date. :( http://www.hackersinshape.net/

yan• 17 years ago

Exercise doesn't always have to be straight body building. I go rock climbing 2-3 times a week and I absolutely love it. One of the very few hobbies I kept up for well over a year (so far). On my off days, I run and sometimes supplement in the gym.

raamdev• 17 years ago

I've made a similar transformation, going from 233LBS to 160LBS.

http://blog.raamdev.com/2004/03/07/changed-for-life

After losing the weight and getting in shape, my asthma and allergies disappeared, along with my eczema. Fitness has become one of the most important things in my life.

If there is one piece of advice I can give to anyone looking to get in shape it would be this: Stick with it and stay consistent. Fitness is a lifestyle, not a goal or destination (that's why diets fail).

DanielBMarkham• 17 years ago

Speaking as a fat guy who's slowly getting back into shape (after taking 2 years off and gaining a bunch of weight), I liked the article -- everything except for the picture at the end.

People, probably for a good reason, have negative feelings associated with guys/girls who spend a huge amount of time at the gym. The word narcissistic comes to mind, also vanity. I'm not saying the writer is vain, just that a bodybuilding shot can be a little put-offish to some.

But more to the point, it emphasizes this huge gulf between the totally out of shape and the totally in-shape. The thing to focus on isn't the body building contests (if you like that sort of thing, which I don't), but it's his description of the day-to-day dedication it takes to make it work. If you want to lose a thousand pounds or run a marathon or whatever, those are great goals. Forget about them for now. For somebody who hasn't done it before, an even greater goal is to get out of bed tomorrow morning and go to the gym -- even if you don't exercise more than 5 minutes. Then do that again. And again and again.

Later on you lose the 40 pounds and start weight-lifting, as he did. Or maybe you go into flexibility training, or endurance training. Then even later you run the marathon, do the body-building show, etc.

Don't try to stick all of that in your head at one time. To a great degree, this is all about doing the same little things each day over and over again. It's not about the big things. Heck, you might not even want to do any of the competition stuff. Functional health -- being able to get around easily, climb stairs, lift heavy boxes, run for a departing plane, go for a 10-mile day hike -- that's a huge thing in itself. It doesn't have to be Twinkies or the Boston Marathon. There's lots of room in-between.

dmoney• 17 years ago

One caution for people hoping to start exercising and go from picture A to picture B: if you want to lose weight, exercise is not enough. You need to keep track of your calorie consumption, or you will just end up eating more. At least that was my experience. Restricting calories, on the other hand, works with or without exercise. Not that I'm advocating non-exercise.

sown• 17 years ago

I have to agree. Being in ketosis is the best thing has happened to my career.

mroman• 17 years ago

I spent $200 US on a cross trainer last year - best $200 I have ever spent.

I highly recommend one, you do not really feel how much of a workout you are getting until you stop, and it is also gentle - I have yet to experience soreness or injury.

No gym fees, no time spent going there and coming back, no having to deal with people, it works great . . . win win all around for me.

petercooper• 17 years ago

I went on a health kick for several months a couple of years ago. Went to the gym three times a week for an hour a shot. Did I feel better and was I more productive? Not really. At least, I didn't feel it except for about twenty minutes after the exercise. The exercise itself felt horrid, even after a few months.. and we're only talking running on a treadmill here.

So, like a lot of gym-goers, I stopped going, I've put on a few pounds back to my seemingly "natural" weight, and I'm sitting right here for now. I'm not sure organized exercise is for everyone, just like TDD or vegetarianism isn't for everyone either. Instead, I just eat reasonably (junk food at most two or three times a month, lots of veggies), make sure I don't sit down for a whole eight hours a day, and that seems to work for me even if I'm a bit squishy around the edges.

Programmers, Promise Yourself This

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