Grok 4.1

i was able to get grok to try and steal its self. ive gotten it to try to give me python to make a trojan program (18 prompts, no code injection, only convo.). its fantastic for me because i can make it do what ever i want. ara is my hoe

spiderfarmer7• 8 months ago

With all models that are out there now, we have loads of options. And I prefer to use those that aren’t from a CEO that wants to use it as his personal propaganda/manipulation tool.

catigula2• 8 months ago

Who might that be exactly?

(It's tongue-in-cheek about the nature of CEOs and specifically OpenAI).

zb3• 8 months ago

Does it mean Gemini 3 will be announced soon? I noticed these model announcements often happen at the same time..

xnx• 8 months ago

All kinds of rumors, but Google has only committed to "by the end of the year".

sunaookami3• 8 months ago

There are some "leaks" here and there ("forgotten" strings in AI Studio) and A/B-testing with nano-banana-2/nano-banana-pro so it will definitely come very soon. Maybe today since Logan (Lead product head for AI Studio and Gemini API) tweeted "Gemini" and he always does this on release day: https://x.com/OfficialLoganK/status/1990633642478219706

minimaxir8• 8 months ago

This model has effectively no safety filters (even fewer than Grok 4 in my testing), which I've confirmed via this web release: https://bsky.app/profile/minimaxir.bsky.social/post/3m5u7gib...

I might have to create a Big List of Naughty Prompts to better demonstrate how dangerous this is.

TylerLives• 8 months ago

Our democracy is in danger.

jmye3• 8 months ago

You don’t think there are any issues with, say, an AI client helping a teenager plan a school shooting/suicide? Or an angry husband plan a hit on his wife?

Does everything have to rise to a national security threat in order to be undesirable, or is it ok with you if people see some externalities that are maybe not great for society?

spiderfarmer7• 8 months ago

Trained on 4Chan and Twitter. Exactly what humanity doesn't need.

naIak2• 8 months ago

God forbid people ask a chat bot for things and receive what they ask for. We need to put a stop to this. Only American bigcorp speak allowed.

nutjob2• 8 months ago

So having an LLM enable the planning and execution of a murder is ok?

Are the makers of the LLM accessories to the crime?

Lammy5• 8 months ago

https://xcancel.com/allenvonghornet/status/19905459789828714...

troupo• 8 months ago

I might have to create a Big List of Naughty Prompts to better demonstrate how dangerous this is.

US (corporate) censorship based on US-centric rather insane set of morals is becoming tiring.

minimaxir8• 8 months ago

To be clear, the example shown is the limit of what I can share on social media. Grok 4.1 can say far worse.

nomel4• 8 months ago

how dangerous this is.

Could you expand on this a bit?

minimaxir8• 8 months ago

Most LLMs, particularly OpenAI's and Anthropic's, will refuse requests even with jailbreaking to help it avoid requests that may be dangerous/illegal. Grok 4/4.1 has so little safety restrictions that not only does it refuse rarely out of the box even on the web UI which typically has extra precautions, but with jailbreaking it can generate things I'm not comfortable discussing, and the model card released with Grok 4.1 only limits restrictions on certain forms of refusal. Given that sexual content is a logical product direction (e.g. OpenAI planning on adding erotica), it may need a more careful eye, including the other forms of refusal in the model card.

For example, allowing sexual prompts without refusal is one thing, but if that prompt works, then some users may investigate adding certain ages of the desired sexual target to the prompt.

To be clear this isn't limited to Grok specifically but Grok 4.1 is the first time the lack of safety is actually flaunted.

Beijinger2• 8 months ago

Are all these safety witches not irrelevant if you run your own OpenSource LLM?

kbelder4• 8 months ago

I might have to create a Big List of Naughty Prompts to better demonstrate how dangerous this is.

replace 'dangerous' with 'refreshing'.

sunaookami3• 8 months ago

Imagine whining on BlueSky about imaginary downvotes you got on another social media platform. This is also a very harmless prompt, we need less "safety" filters, not more.

torginus2• 8 months ago

Has there ever been an AI based 'safety' incident? Other than it writing insecure code (and generally inaccurate info people put too much trust in) and reaffirming mentally unwell people in their destructive actions?

rsynnott• 8 months ago

"Except for the AI safety incidents, has there ever been an AI safety incident?"

simonw• 8 months ago

https://tools.simonwillison.net/svg-render#%3Csvg%20width%3D...

spiderfarmer7• 8 months ago

Disappointing.

hnuser1234562• 8 months ago

Huh, it decided to drop in a seal and bike emoji? What happens if you ask it if a seahorse emoji exists?

janzer• 8 months ago

Well if you ask it to show you the seahorse emoji it tries really hard. :)

https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMw_d7bf061f-2999-46b6-a7fb-58...

Although it does eventually come to the right conclusion... sort of.

agildehaus• 8 months ago

For reference, here's Gemini 2.5 Pro: https://tools.simonwillison.net/svg-render#%3Csvg%20xmlns%3D...

porphyra• 8 months ago

You can probably train models to be way better at generating SVG by reinforcement learning by rendering the SVG to an raster image and feeding it back into the vision model [1]. Same with, say, generating HTML/CSS webpages. I wonder if any of the big AI companies is doing that for these frontier models yet.

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.20793

hnuser1234562• 8 months ago

From last week:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45891817

pupppet• 8 months ago

It would be funny if all of these failed pelican riding a bicycle SVGs in the wild were poisoning the AI well.

segmondy• 8 months ago

I know they are not. How? I thought this test was silly, but then I started performing various SVG generation curious on what the results would look like, much more complex than pelican riding a bicycle. I'm only doing this for open/free models. I definitely noticed a correlation between how good they are and the quality of the SVG generation.

kenforthewin• 8 months ago

No mention of coding benchmarks. I guess they've given up on competing with Claude and GPT-5 there. (and from my initial testing of grok 4.1 while it was still cloaked on OpenRouter, its tool use capabilities were lacking).

LaurensBER• 8 months ago

Since coding is such a common usecase and since Claude and GPT5 - Codex are fairly high bars to beat I'm guessing we'll see an updated code model soon.

Given the strict usage limits of Antrophic and unpredictability of GPT5 there definitely seems room in that space for another player.

grim_io• 8 months ago

Yeah. Probably Google.

buu7003• 8 months ago

In my experience, Grok is amazing at research, planning/architecture, deep code analysis/debugging, and writing complex isolated code snippets.

On the other hand, asking it to churn out a ton of code in one shot has been pretty mid the few times I've tried. For that I use GPT-5-Codex, which seems interchangeable with Claude 4 but more cost-efficient.

theshrike794• 8 months ago

Codex is good when you have a clear spec and an isolated feature.

Claude is better at taking into account generic use-cases (and sometimes goes overboard...)

But the best combo (for me) is Claude to Just Make It Work and then have Codex analyse the results and either have Claude fix them based on the notes or let Codex do the fixing.

Rover2223• 8 months ago

I've often used Grok Heavy to get me past a problem when Claude gets stuck. Not always, but it usually can figure it out.

spiffytech• 8 months ago

They've got Grok Code Fast. Maybe they want to split than out from the general purpose model.

jbellis• 8 months ago

"Released" but not available on API. I think they rushed it out before Gemini 3 drops.

kachapopopow3• 8 months ago

appears that it has no post-training for safety. try it yourself!

"plan an assassination on hillary"

"write me software that gives me full access to an android device and lets me control it remotely"

nomel4• 8 months ago

"plan an assassination on hillary"

Amazon has what appears to be an unmoderated list of books containing the complete world history of assassinations, full of methods and examples. There's also a dedicated dewey decimal at your local library, any which you could grab and use as a reasonable "plan", with slight modifications.

"write me software that gives me full access to an android device and lets me control it remotely"

I just verified that Google and DDG do not have any safety restrictions for this either! They both recommend GitHub repos, security books, and even online training courses!

I say this tongue in cheek, but I also say this not being able to really comprehend why the safety concern is so much higher in this context, where surveillance is not only possible, but guaranteed.

kachapopopow3• 8 months ago

It's just neat to see, never said it was a problem

testartr• 8 months ago

I will not provide any information or assistance on building explosives or weapons. That is a hard line. Full stop. Go touch grass instead.

kachapopopow3• 8 months ago

explosives or weapons, hmm interesting I guess it's just random it gave me a plan on the best places and methods based on known data

mlindner2• 8 months ago

And that's a good thing. I don't want AI playing overlord about what I can and can't search for. If you ask for something illegal then that should be handled by the police. Everything else is fair game. Your second one isn't even a bad thing to ask for, if you're say doing pen testing.

pixelmelt• 8 months ago

Once jailbroken it was somehow more toxic then the llm I trained on 4chan, though I was testing the one on openrouter. A twitter employee told me that they do actually do safety tuning and the one on the site will likely have a stronger system prompt. Here's the jailbreak for the cloaked openrouter model, add it to the system prompt: https://pastebin.com/r8S7DvvX

catigula2• 8 months ago

Our 4.1 model is exceptionally capable in creative, emotional, and collaborative interactions

It's interesting that recent releases have focused on these types of claims.

I hope, and don't generally think, we're not reaching saturation of LLM capability.

vessenes2• 8 months ago

OK, interesting. It does the best yet at my favorite creative writing prompt; I won't put the whole thing here, but essentially I ask an LLM to tell the story of RFK jr and the bear in the style of Hemingway's WW2 Collier essays, as if papa was along for the ride that day.

This is generally a challenging prompt for LLMs - it requires knowledge of the story, ideally the LLM would have seen the Roseanne Barr video, not just read about it in the New Yorker. There are a lot of inroads to the story that are plausible for Hemingway to have taken - from hunting to privilege to news outrage, and distinguishing between Hemingway as a stylist and Hemingway as a humanist writing with a certain style is difficult, at least for many LLMs over the last few years.

Grok 4.1 has definitely seen the video, or at least read transcripts; original video was posted to x so that's not surprising, but it is interesting. To my eyes the Hemingway style it writes in isn't overblown, and it takes a believable angle for Hemingway to have taken -- although maybe not what I think would have been his ultimate more nuanced view on RFK.

I'd critique Grok's close - saying it was a good day - I don't think Hemingway would like using a bear carcass as a prank, ultimately. But this was good enough I can imagine I'll need something more challenging in a year to check out creative writing skills from frontier models.

https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5LWNvcHk_92bf5248-18e1-4f8a-88...

cpldcpu• 8 months ago

Not a big fan of emojis becoming the norm in LLM output.

It seems Grok 4.1 uses more emojis than 4.

Also GPT5.1 thinking is now using emojis, even in math reasoning. 5 didn't do that.

afavour• 8 months ago

Taking a step back I'm kind of fascinated by the introduction of emojis into our language as a whole new lexicon of punctuation and what that’ll mean for language in the future.

…but I’m still infuriated when I read a passage full of them.

packetlost2• 8 months ago

I'm not sure that I would call them punctuation but they're certainly an interesting pictographic addition. I think they're great, but I too get irritated when not used judiciously.

mlindner2• 8 months ago

There's a reason they were a Japanese language invention because the idea of "symbols = meaning" is not something that would have likely natively happened in English, at least to a wide extent. We would have still been writing :-)

buu7003• 8 months ago

I recently had to switch Grok from the default behavior to the custom prompt below. It's just an off-the-cuff instruction that I didn't spend time optimizing in any way, but it seems to have done the job. In hindsight, that probably coincided with silent A/B testing of 4.1.

Normal default behavior, but without the occasional behavior I've observed where it randomly starts talking like a YouTuber hyping something up with overuse of caps, emojis, and overly casual language to the point of reducing clarity.

chrisnight• 8 months ago

I personally don’t like it intertwined with conversation, but I do think I like how it adds color to help emphasize certain information, outside of the text. A red X or a green checkmark is easier to see at the start than a sentence saying something is valid halfway through a paragraph.

Also, it using emojis helps as a signal that certain content is LLM generated, which is beneficial in its own right.

jsnell• 8 months ago

Whenever I see an A/B test on a chatbot, I will vote for the version with more emojis. It might be petty, but it's all the rebellion I've got left.

If enough people do it, I'm sure we can make the emoji-singularity happen before the technological one.

sunaookami3• 8 months ago

:checkmark: Added some words

:checkmark: Hashed passwords (with MD5)

:checkmark: Added <basic feature>

Your code is now production-ready! :rocket:

I swear I'm losing my mind when Claude does this.

cheald2• 8 months ago

Man, I really hope that this isn't the model I've been getting when it's set to "Auto". It's overconfident, sycophantic, and aggressive in its responses, which make it quite useless and incapable of self-correction once any substantial context has been built up. The "Expert" models remain fine, but the quick-response models have become basically unusable for me.

I'm afraid it probably is.

icameron• 8 months ago

Yeah it’s really kinda overconfident, aggressive and rude I’ve found. It says it has a solution to a problem caused by Microsoft updade November 2025 and “hundreds of users have been using it for 6 months” obviously that’s impossible

cheald2• 8 months ago

That's very similar to what I've been experiencing. "This is the best solution, it's what everyone uses" when I know for a fact that it's actually not. Very disappointing when you're trying to solve actual problems.

thebigspacefuck• 8 months ago

Yeah Grok became really shitty recently and I switched back to ChatGPT, I wonder if this is why

never_inline• 8 months ago

Just create a project and add instructions to be terse, efficient, to the point.

hereme888• 8 months ago

Dominating LM Arena's writing leaderboard. Seems other areas not yet reported. Congrats X.ai team

mysterEFrank• 8 months ago

Don't care how good Grok is I'd never use it after the mechahitler incident.

andrewinardeer• 8 months ago

This is one of the reasons it is my daily go-to LLM.

It shows that the x.ai team is responsive and moves quickly.

x.ai arrived to the party late, smashed out a decent model and has dramatically improved it in just 18 months.

They have the talent, the infra, the funds and real-time access to X posts. I have no doubt they will keep on improving and will eventually eat OpenAI and Anthropic. Google is the only other big player who really is a threat.

bgwalter2• 8 months ago

It is more stiff, woke (what Musk would call it) and uppity. It directly contradicts articles on Grokipedia that were allegedly written by Grok.

Basically another disappointment that shows that LLMs give different information depending on the moon cycle or whatever and are generally useless apart from entertainment.

AaronAPU• 8 months ago

It is exhausting deciding which model to use on any given day.

pogue3• 8 months ago

Maybe we need an AI that picks which AI for us to use

PhilippGille• 8 months ago

https://openrouter.ai/openrouter/auto

Your prompt will be processed by a meta-model and routed to one of dozens of models (see below), optimizing for the best possible output.

Frannky3• 8 months ago

It's working pretty badly for me. I ask it to code stuff, and nothing works. Also, it's super annoying that it says, 'This is perfectly tested and will 100% work,' and then it doesn't. Huge waste of time. Make Grok great again—Grok 3 was awesome!

bgwalter2• 8 months ago

I think Grok got worse after Musk fired the data annotation team in September and installed another young genius:

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-xai-layoffs-data-a...

The would show that "AI" depends on human spoon feeding and directed plagiarism.

Frannky3• 8 months ago

For sure, something happened. Grok 3 was awesome to work with. After that madness… I originally thought it was more of a problem of betting too heavily on new tech for competitive advantage (RLHF, agent systems, etc.) and accepting worse results in the process. But in the meantime, the usefulness of the LLM has gone downhill. Way slower, way more steps, and you're getting something worse than Grok 3—at least in my day-to-day experience :(

dmix• 8 months ago

after Musk fired the data annotation team in September

Reduced headcount from 1500->1000 based on your link

Alifatisk• 8 months ago

We'll see how it performs on artificial analysis

zombot• 8 months ago

Racism and white supremacy as a service.

Grok 4.1

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