Things I've quit doing at my desk

by mijustin • 14 years ago

277 96 14 years ago

I would add "Eating" to the list.

I eat at my desk all the time, and I really need to stop. When I eat at my desk, I'm generally eating things that aren't that healthy to begin with, snacking unnecessarily, and/or eating too quickly, and doing it in some misguided notion that I'm able to work and eat at the same time. I'm not actually productive at times like that, it just lets me deal with some illogical guilt I feel when I get up to go eat at a table with other people, or out by myself in the park near the office.

When I get up and go to lunch instead of eating at my desk, I'm taking a real break, I'm socializing, or taking time to think.

I gotta stop eating at my desk.

SonicSoul• 14 years ago

agreed. i've forced myself to eat lunche outside every day even if there is no one to go with. I get lunch and eat it somewhere on a bench while catching up on hacker news (things i used to do at my workstation) etc. i find that just having a HN tab open in my browser is distracting enough so i totally eliminated it.

dmragone• 14 years ago

You could always keep healthy snacks are your desk. Right now I'm munching on some plain, unsalted almonds that I keep right next to me, along with some fruit and other healthy things. Let's me keep going without thinking about being hungry.

benatkin• 14 years ago

It doesn't fix your punctuation, though. http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/lets.html

kachnuv_ocasek• 14 years ago

I was expecting to find this item in the list before I opened it, more so was I disappointed when it wasn't there. I only keep a very small amount of (mostly) "healthy" food, such as grapes, a pepper, a tomato, an apple or a lemon, for refreshment.

mijustin13• 14 years ago

Funny enough: I've found that eating at my desk is HEALTHIER because it forces me to pack healthy food, and then eat whatever I've brought (as opposed to eating out).

I describe this further here: http://justinjackson.ca/8-habits/

codemac• 14 years ago

To me this is an important step to help get rid of mindless eating.

That kind of eating, where a hand goes reaching into a bag of fried shit to grab one more piece of something you never wanted to eat in the first place.

I'm not great at it yet, but I try to stop myself before every bite and ask "Am I hungry?" in my head. I stop way earlier in meals, I eat more frequently with much smaller amounts, and I honestly have happier meals because I have more time to sit and enjoy my company.

I'm trying to do a water-only desk thing. I can have coffee, but only on a coffee break, etc. Not sure if it will make as big of a difference, but we'll see.

vacri• 14 years ago

I have this problem and will mindlessly eat anything in arm's reach while working. I used to buy mints for anyone passing by to have, but would eat them myself... and they would go fast. I put on about 10kg before I realised that it was because I was essentially eating a bag of sugar every day...

Jare• 14 years ago

Interesting. A couple years ago I started ALWAYS having homecooked lunch at my desk, resisting the temptation to stay and socialize in the kitchen after heating it. Since then, I've not felt the need for snacks of any kind at the desk except the piece of fruit I eat late afternoon.

politician2• 14 years ago

Often when I think I'm hungry, I'm actually thirsty. A glass of warmed water (surprisingly) quashes the need to snack. Cold water is no good. Does anyone know why that is?

andrewheins• 14 years ago

Actually, I have opposite preferences, so I can't really help, but I don't enjoy drinking water that isn't cold. I wind up having four or five water bottles that I cycle through refrigerating/drinking/refilling. It's kind of annoying.

ianox• 14 years ago

I remember reading somewhere once that warm drinks are more easily absorbed by the body than cold drinks. Maybe it's something to do with that?

dimitar2• 14 years ago

Not sure why is that, but I think it temporarily fills your stomach and makes it 'relax'. In my experience the same meal if hot makes me feel much more full.

I've heard that fast food joints intentionally try to serve the coldest possible drinks to make patrons feel they are hungry for another burger.

thomasd• 14 years ago

Yeah, this is high on my list too. Often I fool myself by thinking that I need to eat to concentrate. Of course it ended up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy (if I don't eat I can't concentrate).

I think a lot of times, what we do at our desk are some sort of "rituals" that we think help us to get into the zone. Most of the time they just get in our way of doing things.

Evbn4• 14 years ago

Chewing is scientifically known to help thinking. Swallowing is a side effect.

michaelcampbell• 14 years ago

I have always disliked this practice; in myself and others. Too often people think they're being more efficient, but in reality they're NOT working while eating, but using this time to do non-work that should be done elsewhere to begin with. (And I'm waiting for the downvotes by the same people who think, "Yeah, I know it says not everyone can multitask, but I'M not in that group...".)

Also, it smells. I know people don't think it does, or that it's not objectionable, but it's just another sensory input for everyone around them. People wouldn't give a second thought to asking me to turn my radio down; why should I not ask them to keep their smelly heated-over Lean Cuisine in the eating areas?

dimitar2• 14 years ago

I also would like to add that hygiene may become a problem, to see cockroaches on your desk isn't a pleasant sight.

_delirium• 14 years ago

#1 (thinking elsewhere, especially while taking a walk) is definitely true for me, but it does require being in a setting where you're allowed to leave the office for a few hours in the middle of the day to go for a walk in a nearby park. In academia or at your own startup, probably not a problem, but many companies aren't very accommodating of people leaving the office for hours at a time.

mhw• 14 years ago

I find that too - much of my best thinking in the past has come to me during the walk to the office or back home again. I once took to carrying a dictation machine so I could capture these thoughts because I used to find that the process of arriving at the office, making a coffee, booting up and logging on used to distract me and I'd forget what I'd thought of while walking.

My theory about thinking and walking is that it gets the blood flowing round the brain more than just sitting at a desk does. I think that was the thinking behind having table tennis tables in offices as well, to get the blood moving around. There's also something about the action of walking that seems to let the mind wander off as well though...

TillE2• 14 years ago

I suspect it's a mental context switch more than anything physiological.

For example, I'm pretty bad at creative tasks when at a keyboard (this was also true in pre-internet times, so it's not a matter of distractions), but sit me down with a pencil and paper and the juices start to flow. It just creates a different state of mind.

politician2• 14 years ago

There actually is something to the idea of getting blood flowing to the different parts of your brain -- there's also a study showing a correlation between the nostril you're currently breathing out of right now and which nervous system is dominant (you have two). There's a breathing meditation exercise where you try to alternate nostrils -- it's a bit trippy once all of that O2 starts hitting both sides of your head at once.

tesseractive• 14 years ago

Back in the pre-smartphone days, I used to take some code printouts and a legal pad -- whatever I needed to reference while I was thinking, and space to write down my thoughts -- and go out to lunch solo at a sit-down restaurant. Going to a separate space where I didn't have either my IDE or any distractions like a web browser seemed to give me better space to think through a problem.

Lunch dragged on for a couple of hours sometimes, but I generally had a flexible enough schedule that it worked ok.

momotomo• 14 years ago

I've got the same habit with code, taking it offline with a pen in hand and stepping through it. Found it much more effective for working through logical issues in code because it strips all of the syntax checking, typing, temptation to execute out of the way and forces you to slowly evaluate the program flow.

With IDE's, Photoshop, Word, I think it's important to remember that they have activities and workload in themselves that isn't relevant to what you're trying to achieve. Separating this load out from the core task has some value.

archenemy• 14 years ago

This has made me wonder: a tablet app that took a codebase and let you sketch notes and reference anchors to other files in a transparent canvas layered over the code (a stylus would be required, though).

Something like mindmapping over a code printout that could be exported back to your IDE or text editor via a plugin, maybe.

Dn_Ab• 14 years ago

hmm I am most creatively intelligent in a state between sleeping and waking. Everything just flows. But sadly, it only lasts not more than a minute. Then I am awake and wistful about the sudden drop in what feels like 10-15 IQ points.

mijustin13• 14 years ago

It's really unfortunate that, for many bosses, if you're sitting, staring at your screen you "must be working." To really increase productivity we need to give employees the flexibility to reach "true productivity". True productivity isn't sitting in a desk all day: it's achieving a good measure of quality work.

keidian• 14 years ago

And some bosses, like mine unfortunately, are so uptight about it that if I stop and stare at a wall / ceiling / close my eyes for even 30 seconds trying to solve an issue, I get the ok get to work speech and 15 things added to my already too long list.

ChuckMcM• 14 years ago

I disagree about the socializing part, in part because so much of our socializing is driven through the same mechanism we might otherwise do work at. Perhaps Justin might have two desks, one that is the communication/socializing desk and one that is the execution/work desk.

Of course a number of people would love to do that where the TV ends up the display for your socializing function.

ville• 14 years ago

I think it is good to clearly separate working and socializing activities. Working in an open work space where anyone can socialize with you at any time can be very distracting for work that requires you to focus. In my opinion having a private office and separate watercooler/coffee/socializing space would be ideal.

That said, having that separate desk to indicate that you're working on something that is not so susceptible to distraction might be enough.

poblano• 14 years ago

Has anyone else switched to a standing desk setup? Do you like it?

cstejerean• 14 years ago

Yep. I first switched to a standing desk at work, and later got one for home as well (built from IKEA parts). I've found that I'm a lot more productive with a standing desk, mostly because I procrastinate less.

Adjusting to working while standing is difficult. Adjustable desks that can go up and down, especially at the push of a button, only make it harder to actually get used to it. You'll get tired quickly from standing, switch to sitting, and then forget to stand back up (because sitting is a habit, whereas standing is not yet).

I've built a standing desk that does not adjust. When I get tired of standing I'll grab my laptop and go to the couch for a bit, and then get back to standing. This might not work for every setup, but it's great for me.

warp2• 14 years ago

My solution for when I get tired of standing is to sit on a bar stool. I have an Ikea Sebastian bar stool which is the perfect height to sit at my standing desk. It is uncomfortable enough that I switch back to standing after a while.

001sky• 14 years ago

You'll get tired quickly from standing

Agree. Not to be overlooked. Standing ~8 hrs non-stop requires athletic fitness and good posture. One would be surprised. Your shoes, etc. need to be supportive. Any lack of support or posture will make itself known. =D

For those who type have you had issues with your posture standing? I've never used a standing desk but would be concerned that putting weight forward and looking down would be tiresome or fatiguing?

For long periods, it's usually chest out shoulders back and head level (like the army). As off balance element in the spinal column requires a lot of energy to keep upright, otherwise.

Roelven• 14 years ago

Standing desks are amazing. It def made me more productive, felt better during the day because of not sitting and the fact that you can walk off whenever you like is a great thing.

darklajid• 14 years ago

I built one (from Ikea parts, inspired by a posting on ikeahackers) very recently.

I use it far too short a time (2 weeks now) to say whether it really helps, but it's definitely a change that makes me happy _so far_.

I feel more awake (no 'slumping'). I move a lot, walk in circles and just move away from the machine, when I feel I need to think about something.

Will I keep using it from now on? Only time will tell.. It _is_ definitely less comfortable than reclining in a good chair.. :)

anusinha• 14 years ago

Is typing comfortable with a standing desk? Every time I've used a computer at standing height, it's been a little uncomfortable, but they certainly weren't tailored to my height.

icebraining2• 14 years ago

I use one at home (so, 2-3 hours a day) and I quite like it. Get comfortable shoes, though; in my limited experience, they are crucial in how enjoyable the experience is.

ecaradec• 14 years ago

I tried at home for a few month and couldn't adapt to it. It hurts my legs too much after a few hours. I'm really not athletic so that's part of the issue.

What annoyed me also was that I couldn't do creatives things while standing, only simple repetive tasks were ok. So I stopped.

jodrellblank• 14 years ago

Did you consider a standing-mat?

"Standing on a hard floor for prolonged periods without anti-fatigue matting can cause pain and discomfort in the lower legs, feet and back." - some website selling them.

mdonahoe• 14 years ago

I made the switch by having two computers: a sit down desk where I disabled most websites, and a stand up desk where I could freely browse the web. After a week or two, I was fine standing up and made the full transition.

You will definitely want to relax from time to time though.

praptak2• 14 years ago

Ad procrastinating: I remember someone (Paul Graham?) reporting that he configured a separate machine for procrastination-inducing activities so as to avoid the "just quickly check my feed while this is compiling" syndrome.

philwelch2• 14 years ago

It was Paul Graham. He later noted that it didn't really work.

TillE2• 14 years ago

Interesting. While it's not a panacea, I do think it's an important part of creating separate work and non-work environments.

Making a separate user account just for work really helps me stay focused. Same computer, but still a different environment.

praptak2• 14 years ago

Thanks. I have found the article: http://www.paulgraham.com/distraction.html

tocomment• 14 years ago

Where did he say it didnt work? It seems like a great idea.

emillon• 14 years ago

Matt Might suggested something similar for distractions and gaming :

http://matt.might.net/articles/cripple-your-technology/

Evbn4• 14 years ago

Yes, I hate distracting chat popups when I am gaming, especially ones from coworkers.

mijustin13• 14 years ago

For me it's looking for the reason behind the procrastination that works. If I'm procrastinating because I'm tired; my best bet is to get some rest. If I'm procrastinating because I'm trying to solve a problem; I need to think get away from the computer and go for a walk.

jseliger• 14 years ago

Sitting: for the past 18 months I’ve been using a standing desk. I’ve realized that the best part isn’t that I’m standing all day; it’s that I’m not sitting.

I actually got a GeekDesk a while ago, and I think it's a better solution: I wouldn't want to sit or stand all the time.

mijustin13• 14 years ago

Yup, I'm the same way. I use a barstool for sitting and leaning. I probably stand 50%-75% of my day. I also try to get away from my desk more often.

electic• 14 years ago

I would also add "drinking" to this list. It's never good to drink anything at your desk.

thebigshane• 14 years ago

Water?

karamazov• 14 years ago

I disagree - I keep a 24 pack of bottle water by my desk, which helps me stay hydrated. I also have a few cups of tea per day, which I find pleasant and not distracting.

(Unless you mean alcohol, in which case I don't disagree, but it doesn't sound like you do.)

briancurtin• 14 years ago

What are the issues with drinking things at your desk?

brador• 14 years ago

Best thing I ever did was move away from the desk unless working. Get a tablet for web browsing and keep your desk for work. I'd guess it's added 10 years minimum to my expected lifespan.

skibrah• 14 years ago

I couldn't agree more regarding using a standing desk. The ability to stretch and move around makes working for long periods of time much more productive.

thechut2• 14 years ago

You don't use a mouse?

mijustin13• 14 years ago

Are you referring to the photo on my post? The photo is a little bit of a lie: I'd just moved into this office, and my desk is not normally that minimalist. ;)

I do use a mouse. And normally my laptop is elevated on a box, with a keyboard in front. I also have a external monitor that's normally beside it.

thechut2• 14 years ago

Yes, I was referring to the photo. Glad to hear I'm not crazy for still using a regular old keyboard and mouse.

plorkyeran• 14 years ago

I still prefer a mouse, but these days MacBook touchpads are good enough that I no longer bother bringing a mouse with me for serious work away from my desk.

Tooluka• 14 years ago

And switch laptop for desktop computer. Reason is - you shouldn't do work at social station, at rest station and at sleep station. You should only work at work station.

philwelch2• 14 years ago

I think it's handy to have both, actually. Use the laptop for email and the like, and reserve the desktop for real work.

bkanber• 14 years ago

I wrote an article very similar to this a few months ago. I make a similar argument: we need defined workspaces, and when we're there we shouldn't do anything but work.

http://burakkanber.com/blog/staying-productive-while-working...

mijustin13• 14 years ago

Loved your post! I especially identify with "not actually working from your home while you’re working from home." I too found that working from a coffee shop on my remote working days was way better than being in the basement at my house. The coffee shop was nice, because it still allowed me to work outside of the office (without the distractions of the office).

bajsejohannes• 14 years ago

> Nobody does their best thinking sitting at their desk. When you reflect on your biggest “Ah-Ha!” moments, how many of them occurred while you were staring at a screen?

My biggest ah-ha moments are seldom staring at a screen*, but quite often it's at my desk with a paper and pen.

(The big exception is when doing profiling; the highest ah-ha-per-second ratio of all activities)

mijustin13• 14 years ago

I've found that my screen is just too darned distracting. ;) For me, pen and paper at a coffee shop is perfect.

weej• 14 years ago

Agreed - that or a white board.

A lot of times it helps to get out of the office if you hit a rut/wall.

Just getting in a new environment and re-approaching the problem with a fresh perspective makes all the difference.

I like to take long walks with my dogs and try to let my mind wander. Usually, I'll end up thinking about work or a personal issue that requires a solution to be addressed.

iNate2000• 14 years ago

+1 to white-boards

jakejake• 14 years ago

I knew before I clicked that there was going to be something about a standing desk. I feel a subtle smugness coming from the standing desk crew that irks me a little.

But, as far as procrastinating I have definitely been slipping lately and need to lay off facebook, reddit, and (gulp) HN as well. Wait... what am I still doing here..!

mijustin13• 14 years ago

Ha ha. I only mention it because it's really worked for me. There are other strategies that could work well: one is to sit for only 30 minutes at a time, and then get up and go for a quick walk. The challenge for developers is that they often need 2 hours of uninterrupted time to focus.

Evbn4• 14 years ago

I tried a standing desk, and got horrible blood flow pains on my arms when typing.

xiaoma• 14 years ago

That desk seriously needs a nice 27" monitor before it can be a proper "workstation".

mijustin13• 14 years ago

I had a large external monitor, but I haven't set it up in my new office yet. I'm actually enjoying the limitation of the smaller screen: ensures I'm only working on 1 thing at a time.

hkmurakami• 14 years ago

The "writing hut" part reminded me how Wallace Stegner's house / writing hut will be torn down in order to build a multi-million dollar monstrosity of a mansion [1]. :(

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Stegner

edit: apparently the writing hut will be preserved, though inaccessible to the public

[2]http://www.sfgate.com/books/article/Stegner-s-studio-won-t-b...

AYBABTME• 14 years ago

We should declare our desks sacred, and define a set of rituals to perform at those desks, to calm the Gods of Creativity and ask their forgiveness for all those sins we committed in their temple - the Desks.

nodata• 14 years ago

I call BS. Nobody has a desk that looks like that.

mijustin13• 14 years ago

You're right; the photo in the post is a bit of a lie. I had just moved in, and I snapped a photo while everything was nice and clean.

Here's what it looks like now: http://bit.ly/S8o7Ju

eckyptang2• 14 years ago

I quit working at my desk.

It's uncomfortable (despite considerable investment), takes a lot of space, has terrible lighting, is too hot or too cold and is eerily quiet. It's quite depressing really.

I tend to sit in the garden when it's not raining - good lighting, relaxing ambient noise and great air (which is really important). Plus you can get up and walk around regularly and focus on stuff that isn't right in front of you.

The only downside is bird crap and my neighbours think I'm insane.

mijustin13• 14 years ago

This is great! I think we need to keep exploring new models for how people get their best work done. This guy built a desk in a tree: http://variationsonnormal.com/2011/09/15/tree-branch-work-de...

eckyptang2• 14 years ago

That's fantastic - thanks for posting this.

I used to camp in my local woodland as teenager, sometimes 80+ days a year. Perhaps I should go and work there as well (seeing as there's a massive great big 3G mast in the middle of my local woods now).

RyanMcGreal• 14 years ago

> Even better, I’ve felt more freedom to just walk away when I’m faced with a problem and need to do some thinking

I don't have a standing desk, but this is possibly my biggest incentive to consider getting one: if you're already standing, there's a lot less inertia to keep you from just walking away from your desk.

ybrs• 14 years ago

imho; if he's talking about the desk in the picture, its positioned wrong, he needs to stare a wall all the time he is behind the desk.

darkxanthos• 14 years ago

I've been experimenting with getting away from my desk at home more often and taking breaks to play games and such. I use RescueTime to track what I end up doing and how much I end up working and if anything my productivity has only increased.

It's not a perfect measurement but it helps me to realize its not at all expensive to unchain myself from my desk.

mijustin13• 14 years ago

Exactly. I think we need to experiment and see where we're actually productive.

Too many times we "lie" to ourselves, and think that if we're at our desk, we're working (and being productive).

rbellio• 14 years ago

I like the ideas put forth in the article, thanks for the write-up. For me, it's really sometimes just finding what works best for the situation I'm in. I've found that sometimes the solitude of a library study desk can be the best place to get work done. At other times, sitting in a busy area (a cafe, a park, even public transit) can be invigorating and creates enough background as to allow me to focus more. The recliner in my living room has seen more than its fair share of use while sitting at my laptop typing away.

There are times when my mind races and I can't focus. I turn the lights off, close the shades and the only light and thereby focus becomes the monitor.

I look at this article and others that offer advice on finding that working place for yourself, or that motivation to ignore distractions and I see them more as tools than as rules. A man with a well supplied toolbox is more likely to find the one he needs when the time comes.

Things I've quit doing at my desk

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