A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/05/26/a-secret-trove-of-rare-guitars-heads-to-the-met

by bookofjoe • 1 year ago

95 60 1 year ago

bookofjoe• 1 year ago

neom• 1 year ago

The owner is the grandson of the Ziff Davis fortune. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziff_Davis (Popular Electronics, PC Mag, ZDNET, etc.)

dirtyhippiefree• 1 year ago

The article also says that William Ziff Jr. sold the computer magazines when his son, Dirk, didn’t want to run them.

He’s worth $7 billion, now.

WorkerBee28474• 1 year ago

In the spring of 2027, the museum will open a permanent gallery devoted to the evolution and cultural impact of the American guitar.

This is fun, it looks like they have many important prototype and early production guitars.

te_chris• 1 year ago

They’ve already got an incredible collection in their instruments section. Amazing early Martin’s etc

dfxm123• 1 year ago

For people interested in guitars, seeing how things get made, or museums related to guitars, I can't recommend the Martin factory tour enough in Nazareth, PA. You really get up close to all aspects of the guitar making process and can talk to some people while they're working. You can also see guitars from people like Johnny Cash to Ed Sheeran.

atoav7• 1 year ago

As a guitar player (20+ years) and a audio engineer/electrical engineer/dsp programmer one thing that really keeps baffling me about the field of guitar playing is how much myths about what affects the sound in which way exists. With people trying to get the sounds of their stars by buying products that were made in the 60s and somehow assuming the wild quality fluctuations and effects of the recording chain during that time don't matter all that much. Meanwhile you can get extremely good (studio quality) sounds with a 200 Euro guitar and a 250 Euro amplifier and the rest you can do with 2 or three effects pedals and (crucially!) the correct strings, instrument setup and above all playing.

In each hobby you will find people that are in it for the gear more than anything. I play the same guitar since the past 15 years and I know exactly how to play to make it sound a certain way. I wonder how the people who buy a new guitar each month even manage to get to know theirs..

There is a German youtube channel by a former university professor of acoustics that picks many of the myths surounding electrical guitars (especially those repeated in the press) apart scientifically (website: https://www.gitarrenphysik.de/). I am not aware of any english resource on that topic that goes into the topic even at a fraction of the depth. He made laser measurements of various parts of the electrical guitar to measure power dissipation and model it, influence of the whole electronic chain, etc. If there is an aspect to the guitar, he probably measured it.

Like did you know that strings don't just vibrate up/down, but also left/right and how this directional change plays out when you pluck a string differs depending on the guitar? Yeah me neither. Did you know wood has next to no influence on the sound of an electrical guitar, despite being called "tonewood" by the press?

mrob3• 1 year ago

Jim Lill has several excellent videos on Youtube testing guitar tone myths:

https://www.youtube.com/@JimLill/videos

The "air guitar" demonstration in his first video memorably shows that the wood doesn't matter.

One non-obvious thing that does affect the sound is the type of pick (a.k.a. plectrum). Both the shape and the stiffness of the pick affect the sound, and playing with fingers sounds different too. I don't see a lot of discussion of this, even though it's cheap and easy to experiment with (you can buy sample packs of many different picks). I recommend trying it if you haven't already.

tarentel• 1 year ago

I play electric bass and this comes up a lot in that community. Besides using different picks where you pick/pluck the strings also greatly affects the tone, whether it's right over the picks up, towards the bridge, near the neck, etc.

Also when using a pick, the angle at which you strike the strings with the pick affects the tone. Such as keeping the pick flat versus angled to the strings. I don't really know how to explain it well in words hopefully that makes sense.

lrmunoz• 1 year ago

What is a "a 200 Euro guitar and a 250 Euro amplifier" setup that you recommend? Honest question.

gtr• 1 year ago

Not sure about the amp, but the Yamaha Pacifica I have is decent. It's been used in a stage show successfully (not played by me), and the artist was very happy with it.

0xPIT• 1 year ago

I own some Fenders and Gibsons, but over the last couple of years, Harley Benton produces very good guitars that are very affordable.

I have one of their telecasters, and it’s on par with a squier or a cheap fender, provided that you get it set up properly.

When I got to that cheap telly, I initially had planned to replace the pick ups, but guess what, the stock pick ups are good actually.

For amps, that strongly depends on your personal taste, but usually you go used. For example, if you’re into metal, you can get Peavey ValveKings for low $, they just require a good speaker. There are also several cheap clones available. YouTube has you covered with demos.

Also, digital amps have become good enough, even those software only, for example GarageBand. You just need some audio interface.

mahmoudhossam2• 1 year ago

A Harley Benton or similar guitar paired with a 100 Euro audio interface plugged into a computer that runs Neural Amp Modeler has been the perfect setup for me https://www.neuralampmodeler.com/

jdietrich• 1 year ago

You can't go wrong with a Yamaha Pacifica, although you'll pay closer to €250 - the build quality is consistently excellent and the 112J is extremely versatile. Harley Benton (Thomann's house brand) offer a very wide range of guitars at under €200 with shockingly good specifications, but the quality control is a bit more patchy, so I'd suggest getting a guitar-playing friend to look it over or paying a local guitar store for a setup.

If you're just practising at home, the Positive Grid Spark 40 is an astounding bargain at under €250. It sounds great out of the box with a simple interface, but connect the app and you've got near-endless tonal options and tons of really useful practice features. It also does double-duty as a good Bluetooth speaker. Spend a little over €250 on something like the Fender Mustang LT50 or the Boss Katana 50 and you've got a versatile modelling amp that'll just about keep up with a drummer in a rehearsal room.

atoav7• 1 year ago

That guitar: <https://www.thomann.de/de/harley_benton_hbt1952.htm>

And that amplifier: <https://www.thomann.de/de/harley_benton_tube15_celestion.htm>

The amp is based on the Monoprice Stage Right 15W which is a clone of the Laney Cub 12R which is losely inspired by the Vox AC15. So you get a decent 15W tube amp with a real spring reverb for 260 Euros. There is not a lot with that amount of bang for the buck out there.

If you're playing in a loud band it might be a little underpowered, but it is perfect for playing at home, and if you want it to be any wilder than it is, just use pedals in front of it.

jimnotgym3• 1 year ago

A second hand Squier Classic Vibe strat and a second hand valve amp.

zabil• 1 year ago

You’ll find people in every hobby who are more into the gear than the actual activity

Honestly, that’s part of the fun for some of us, even early on. I’ve been playing guitar for a while now, and while I enjoy it, the repetitive nature can sometimes get dull. Exploring new gear and chasing different tones has been my way of breaking through those ruts.

Yes, it’s expensive and it eats into practice time — no doubt. But some of us are just wired to enjoy the experimentation. I eventually found a setup I really like, but I don’t regret going through the gear phase. It kept things exciting and helped me stay connected to the hobby.

etrautmann• 1 year ago

That’s been exactly my experience with photography as well.

atoav7• 1 year ago

Don't get me wrong here, I am deeply interested in gear and sound, after all I design and build my own modular synthesizer modules, guitar pedals, speaker cabinets and so on.

So the reality of what forms a sound matters to me because I like to be in control of the result. And that means that I can't rely on the countless wrong poetic fantasies of people in the market to sell more gear, consisting of cosmetic stuff that doesn't impact the sound.

That does not mean I spend no time researching gear, quite the opposite. I just complained that what people think impacts their sound isn't what actually impacts their sound, because they have been given factually wrong mental models. And I know they are factually wrong because I experimented with applying them in practise.

E.g. one laughable mental model is sound per material analogy. You use silver in a cable (a good conductor at least), so that must therefore make for a "silvery" tone (typically they hear that in the high frequency range somewhere). Oh no the manufacturer used metal in the speaker enclosure? So now it sounds metallic and sterile. They used wood? Warm and rich. They used spongy mushrooms? Probably very psychadelic, you get the idea. Reasoning on the level of a kindergardener.

And that is it. No measurement, no blind A/B test, just mumbo-jumbo and fools who swear they could hear the gras grow if someone just tells them there was gras growing while the lawn is made of plastic.

For silver cables you can do a null test. Run the same signal through 5m of copper and 5m of silver and subtract one from another, while carefully making sure the levels match. The difference will be some noise down there at the edge of your audio interfaces recording capabilities. And that difference is absolutely inaudible. But what about the different higher conductivity of silver? Just use more copper. If there is any topic we know a ton about it is how electrons transmit charge in conducters and so far no impactful special frequency and dynamic-changing properties have been found in a piece of wire.

Meanwhile everybody skips room acoustics, cause that is boring and labour intensive and involves having to understand how complex sound behaves in confined spaces and how to measure that. And lets not ponder why Hifi people use unbalanced connections..

It is easier to sell someone highly pure silver cables than it is to sell them bass absorber their room would actually need to listen to the music some sound engineers mixed in decades ago on NS-10s.

TL;DR: I just find it sad that people can't just enjoy music listening or music making without buying into esotheric nonsense that does not describe reality as it is. Music is already magical. The hear it is made on and the stuff it is played back on is purely physical however. And that does not take away from the magic, IMO it adds to it.

fipar• 1 year ago

We should be grateful for the people that get a new guitar every month since I bet they keep that industry alive. I don’t think it would survive on professional musicians alone, though I could be wrong. We would certainly have professional luthiers, but I’m not sure about production lines…

In any case, your comment on a 200 Euro guitar reminded me of this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/$100_Guitar_Project

And to confirm your “and above all playing” part, a couple of years ago I updated my 90s epiphone s-type (“Gibson’s Strat”, ha!) with ‘68 Strat pickups (reissue, obviously, I’m neither rich nor that crazy) and I told a friend “I now sound just like the guy that tunes Mark Knopfler’s guitar” :)

atoav7• 1 year ago

You're probably right, their obsession makes it cheaper for the rest of us. So maybe I should have just kept silent haha.

Applejinx• 1 year ago

Spoke like somebody who doesn't own a Rickenbacker.

tomcam3• 1 year ago

Not following?

Supernaut• 1 year ago

you can get extremely good (studio quality) sounds with a 200 Euro guitar and a 250 Euro amplifier

Yes, exactly. Does a guitar that costs €1200 sound and (equally importantly) feel even better? Yes, in my opinion - but with modern instruments, diminishing returns do set in quite quickly.

I noted this comment from the guy in the article: "All the guitars they made after [1964] were junk.” Utter nonsense. I can't stand that kind of boomer gatekeeping.

criddell2• 1 year ago

Justin Sandercoe (Justin Guitar on YouTube) did a series[1] where he bought the cheapest electric guitar on Amazon (£60 I think) and then had a guitar tech friend of his do a complete setup. Many times through the series both Justin and the tech remarked at how good the £60 guitar is.

The problem with buying an inexpensive guitar is mostly psychological. Do you really want to pay for a $200 setup on a $100 guitar? People don't and so they end up learning on a guitar that could be so much better for a small investment.

Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine fame is well known for doing amazing things with budget tools[2].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0SHE_xooyU

[2] https://www.instagram.com/p/CN3h__xjFTJ/

jhpacker• 1 year ago

I agree with your take. I've definitely owned and played some excellent sub-$1000 guitars, but at the lower price points things it can be frustrating to deal with things like low-quality tuners, improperly shielded components, etc. I'd say 90% is about pickups, strings, and frets. Most of the 60s guitars I've played were not great tbh.

atoav7• 1 year ago

That was my point. I play a US Strat, that now costs more than 1200 Euros. The guitar I got for my family member plays just as good. And that isn't because my Strat plays bad, I play that instrument since 15 years and it is setup correctly etc.

That is because the new cheap guitars can be (depending on the manufacturer) really good nowadays. I have to admit I felt a bit of envy with my family member, because during my youth this was a fucking struggle, with weird Squires that had all kind of problems and twisty necks and whatnot.

Of course the cheap guitar doesn't add the placebo effect of having a guitar with the real Fender logo to it. And if you're struggling to get out good sounds you might feel that the only thing that will make you sound better is that Fender logo. Probably everybody goes through that stage at some point during their instrument-playing. But as of now I am good enough of a guitar/bass player that I stopped caring about brands for the most part. There is big brands with shit products and small brands with good stuff. Brands do not matter nearly as much as the press or guitar snobs say.

dboreham• 1 year ago

Similar history and similar peeve here. It's much the same as many other fields though -- the people who think loudspeaker cable is directional, and so on.

There is some hope -- if you look for interviews with Billy Gibbons' "tech" guy he talks about how they ran his favorite guitar (Pearly Gates) through a SA while playing an open G cord. Then for every other guitar he plays live they program an EQ spectrum to bring it to the same spectrum as that baseline guitar. So they all sound the same (because it's only EQ that differs between pickups not 1960s magic smoke).

dfxm123• 1 year ago

In each hobby you will find people that are in it for the gear more than anything.

Playing guitar and collecting gear are two different hobbies. This is not the only hobby like this. The people who play magic: the gathering are not necessarily the people who collect MTG cards for the sake of collecting. There's some overlap, yeah, but these are still distinct hobbies.

alexjplant• 1 year ago

Did you know wood has next to no influence on the sound of an electrical guitar, despite being called "tonewood" by the press?

Yes it does. I have two EC-1000s made in the same factory with the same electronics that sound different because one has a maple top and neck whereas the other is straight mahogany. I have two guitars from another brand with similar (but not identical) construction that sound different because one's made out of ABS plastic instead of plywood like the other. Hell, I've swapped necks on a guitar or two and that had a fairly pronounced effect on sound too. I think this "counter-myth" has blossomed because people are tired of the cork-sniffery about collector grade PRSes and such. As a guy that plays sub-$1000 guitars that are modded to hell and back for live use I don't blame them one bit for being put off by some of the more ridiculous internet discourse around collector's grade instruments.

That being said pretty much everything affects the tonality of an electric guitar even before you get into the signal chain. To me the more pertinent questions are whether 1) more expensive or exotic woods consistently sound "better" and 2) wood is the biggest contributor to the tonality of a solid-body guitar. I would answer "no" to both of those but then again I haven't played a tube amp live in the past decade so I clearly have no taste :o).

tomcam3• 1 year ago

Yep. I have a genuine 1959 Strat that feels and sounds amazing. I also have a 2024 Squier Debut that goes for $130 new and sounds every bit as good, though it doesn’t feel as nice. Action is perfect and it stays in tune.

metalman• 1 year ago

I lived upstairs from the "Radio Clinic" in Ottawa, and would buy mic's and things and marvel at there singular colection of electronic equipment, they called me out back one day to check out a guitar, which I played ,tryed, upside down as I play left, gibson les psul junior, serial #0003, and passed on as I couldnt use it, just came accross an original paf from my time there. But the original leo fender prototype! thats too much, dweazle has jimi's monteray strat, that was given to frank......imagine having that handed to you now....or just having it hanging up.....right there....looming to bad there wasn't something like with the strads, where they must be played......

ckemere• 1 year ago

The Met is a serious place. Apparently they developed a laser-based accelerated aging system so that they could measure (and subsequently monitor) how the finishes on these guitars change due to exposure. Also crazy environmental control in the context of millions of people visiting, with the goal of having the instruments preserved for posterity.

The curators are an unusual mix of artist, scientist and engineer. They all have PhDs, and apparently there’s a concept of tenure.

danielvaughn• 1 year ago

When I lived in NYC I applied to work there several times. Never got an interview but would’ve been an incredible experience, since I was an artist prior to becoming an engineer.

Also the Met is just incredible. It’s my favorite thing to do in the city. I’m not sure if this exhibit is the same one that I saw, but I remember seeing an exhibit of old instruments, like guitars from the 19th century and even older than that iirc.

There’s also an amazing weapons exhibit that I believe is permanent. Some eccentric rich dude collected them over a century ago, and when he died it was donated to the museum. Everything from royal armor to samurai swords. Very cool.

TomMasz• 1 year ago

As a guitar player, it's nice to see at least some of these guitars get played. I'm old enough to remember when old Les Pauls, Strats, and archtops were cheap. Had I known then what they would eventually have been worth, I would have begged my parents for the money to buy a couple of them. Oh, well.

lenerdenator2• 1 year ago

I'm going long on offsets.

tomcam3• 1 year ago

Deep cut

lenerdenator2• 1 year ago

The original Fender prototype. Arguably the most important artifact in the development of amplified music.

ssttoo• 1 year ago

It will sit nice in the company of Les Paul serial number 1

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/843062

uncivilized• 1 year ago

From the article, the guitars will be displayed in an American Guitar exhibition in Spring 2027.

michaelficek15g• 1 year ago

As an accomplished Lead/Rhythm Guitarist for over 40 years, I could not have said it any Better. I play A 50th Anniversary American Fender Stratocaster through a Line 6 Spider 50. I couldn't ask for anything better. I have a 1001+ different tones at the touch of my fingers. In My World it doesn't get Any Better Than That. There's absolutely nothing Better Sounding than "Eruption" at EVH's Speed,Tone,Sound and Playing Level. Kids Today May Have Abilities and some skills, but they don't have the same skills and touch as Us OG'S. Many Happy Trails Ahead My Friends

michaelficek0gm• 1 year ago

R.I.P. Edward Van Halen. Thank God for You and Your 1st Headlining Tour, Cobo Hall 1981. Detroit Rock City. Until We Meet Again.

A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

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