Interesting ad seeking Lisp developers (not 'mere coders')

http://www.getafreelancer.com/projects/Perl-CGI-C-C/Lisp-Developers-Lisp-Really-Yes.366601.html

by anuraggoel • 18 years ago

22 28 18 years ago

gruseom3• 18 years ago

It certainly is an interesting ad. Horrifically interesting, but interesting nonetheless. It seems to me that this statement could also be about the ad itself:

Lispers seem to be a breed of uber-nerds (super nerds) who are extremely clever in some ways but utterly foolish in others.

gibsonf1• 18 years ago

It does seem like you'd have to be foolish to code in Lisp for $11/hour. Maybe that's why they have to keep reposting the ad? Maybe they're looking for 3rd-world coutry lispers?

critic• 18 years ago

I think Mr. Maas of c.l.l offered to write Lisp for minimum wage. I think he's in Bay area.

gruseom3• 18 years ago

The way the ad is written, I half-expected it to demand that you pay them for the privilege.

KirinDave• 18 years ago

Coding for $11/hour is foolish, period. Seriously, that's way undervaluing the skill!

cabalamat• 18 years ago

> It certainly is an interesting ad. Horrifically interesting

It reminds me of this apartment rental ad from Craigslist -- http://consumerist.com/5130759/worst-apartment-rental-ad-eve...

ptuzla• 18 years ago

Your metaphor really tells it all...

anc20202• 18 years ago

Summary: In taking this job, you will be my bitch.

ratsbane• 18 years ago

This ad is strangely compelling. anc2020 is right, they are a bit blunt and demanding, but there's an honesty and intelligence in their approach that's admirable. A lot of employers expect you to be their bitch but they'll cover it up with fuzzy words.

I'm probably not going to respond to this ad; the pay is just too low, but I'd like to have lunch some day with whoever is behind this.

Niten• 18 years ago

> I'd like to have lunch some day with whoever is behind this.

Don't; you'd probably be stuck with the check.

vaksel• 18 years ago

or they are just trying to get a lot of work done for free. Pick a dozen developers, have each work the 10 hours, hard work too, since the people would be working their ass off trying to make a good impression....then tell them "Sorry you didn't live up to our standards".

Not likely though, since then they'd offer to pay more than the minimum wage

fp• 18 years ago

I also thought, that these small "test" assignments might be a trick to get (some part of) the work for free.

In ten hours for free plus ten hours at five per cent, times the number of eager programmers, you can get a lot of footwork done.

> Not likely though, since then they'd offer to pay more than the minimum wage

The minimum wage could be helpful to get applications only from a certain type of programmers: Those who don't mind a low salary and care more about the Lisp experience and learning new things. I myself would probably like to have that kind of people on my team.

If anyone here takes the job, please let us know how it goes. ;-)

jaytee_clone• 18 years ago

I can get a building security job and code for more than $11 per hr.

He would get way better results by looking for co-founders as suppose to employees.

Better developers and a lot more work done for $0.

owkaye2• 18 years ago

"I can get a building security job and code for more than $11 per hr."

You missed the whole point of the ad.

The project is listed on getafreelancer which caters to the thousands of offshore programmers who could never earn $20 a DAY doing programming work for employers in their own countries.

It seems obvious to me that this ad is NOT for a programmer in a developed country. In the Philippines the BEST programmers never earn more than $20 a day working for local companies, and most of them are lucky to earn $7-10 a day. This is not a joke either, I've employed and managed hundreds of them since I moved here 8 years ago and I know exactly what I'm talking about.

These freelancer-type sites attract programmers from third-world countries specifically because the opportunities allow them to earn an order of magnitude more money on outsourcing jobs to folks in developed countries than if they took a job working as a programmer for a local company.

Unfortunately most of these programmers also think they have to bullshit the folks they are trying to get jobs from, since that's the only way they have to try to distinguish themselves from the other thousand programmers who will apply for the same jobs. So ...

To put a strongly worded and very demanding job opportunity like this one online seems to me to be the ideal way to go about finding 'the best of the best' while hoping that everyone else will be scared off.

Naturally the advertiser knows that he's fighting an uphill battle to try to find someone who actually knows how to design software rather than just write code, especially when he's looking in low wage foreign countries. But if all he needs is that one ideal candidate, maybe his ad will discourage most of the riff-raff from wasting his time.

His approach of requiring 5 separate unpaid projects is also a great way to weed out the losers. In third-world countries you can EASILY find lots of guys who will agree to do little 2-hour projects for no pay if it might mean a very high paying long term job with a foreign company -- and that's exactly what this guy is offering.

My guess is that he is giving the exact same tests to every applicant. That's what I would do in his position, and I've been in his position dozens of times this past decade.

In other words, it's an exceptionally well written ad that may produce the precise results the advertiser is hoping for ... and that's a difficult thing to accomplish in a third-world country.

ggruschow2• 18 years ago

I really like this ad. I'm not sure if I think it's good, but at least it's different.

Will they actually get what they want? If so, I need to consider changing my business models. The world's a lot different than I thought if you can actually get someone good for those rates.

I'm tempted to do their 2 hour test, 10 hours of development, and get started on their work just to see what they're doing, what they're like, and get some of my other questions answered.

gaius2• 18 years ago

That's a good point. Is it possible to hire a LISP programmer for those conditions? Where? Not even in India I'd wager, esp. when Tata will hire anyone, for more money/fewer hours, and give them a benefits package too.

ggruschow2• 18 years ago

This is definitely interesting:

http://www.getafreelancer.com/users/feedback_218576.html

Looking through some of those, it seems the target audience is Eastern Europeans, not Indians.

Dilpil• 18 years ago

"We will pay each developer $1500- $2200 for working 200 hours per month. That is 7.50 US dollars to 11 US dollars per hour."

...will you now.

marbletiles• 18 years ago

"Hi, we are setting ourselves up to fail, and are looking for people inexperienced in something difficult. Can you help? There's a good chance we won't pay you at all, btw"

derefr• 18 years ago

Indeed. I imagine they get all their work done during the "probationary period," then refuse the person at the last moment and repost the ad. (I think I could build basically any software you wish using well-divided piecework prepared as "tests." Anyone want to take the bet?)

Actually, thinking about it, I could probably hide bomb trajectory calculations in public school math curricula as well. It sort of reminds me of steganography, or of the Manhattan project...

anuraggoel• 18 years ago

Here's some insight into the poster in his/her own words:

"Frankly, if you knew me you might not like me because I'm as demanding as the job I have advertised is fascinating. In other words, I'm extremely demanding. I'm looking for an extremely clever developer who is ravenous for designing and developing great software.

Finally, I'm looking for talent; experience means virtually nothing to me whatsoever."

http://www.getafreelancer.com/pmb/mb366601.html#view

gaius2• 18 years ago

Someone smart enough to do "cutting edge" code, but not smart enough to know they getting screwed? Dude's watched Rain Man one too many times.

Incidentally he mentions that he's using mod_lisp so this is probably a website... Anyone got a URL?

anc20202• 18 years ago

> Incidentally he mentions that he's using mod_lisp

A cleverly laid decoy.

time_management• 18 years ago

Lispers seem to be a breed of uber-nerds (super nerds) who are extremely clever in some ways but utterly foolish in others. Lisp is an excellent language for developing software but generally we find Lispers to be arrogant, annoying, and not worth dealing with.

Therefore, if you are a Lisper, unless you are an unusual Lisper, please don't apply for this job. Instead, please go back to commiserate with your fellow Lispers about how hardly any Lisp jobs exist. Ok?

"Applicant must not have a chip on his shoulder, because this would draw attention to the plank that is on mine. "

ojbyrne• 18 years ago

This was posted 2 weeks ago (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=427250) and deleted.

owkaye2• 18 years ago

He has clearly dealt with 'foreigners' in the programming world before. He knows exactly how to explain his needs and requirements in blunt detail, and this is an absolute requirement if you want to avoid wasting time considering losers who will flood you with job applications even when they know they are not qualified.

I think he's hoping that his ad will discourage most of the programmers who would otherwise apply -- thus leaving only a very few applications to review. I've run ads very similar to this in my efforts to hire local Filipino programmers for my outsourcing business. I

It just 'makes sense' to me, and to anyone else who has actually been in a similar situation too I presume.

muriithi• 18 years ago

They have posted this twice on GAF and on both occassions have cancelled the ad after a few days. This ad was cancelled on the 18th.

This must be the work of one of those bipolar lisp coders uhhhm sorry programmers(http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=78739).

Interesting ad seeking Lisp developers (not 'mere coders')

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