Surgery implants tooth material in eye as scaffolding for lens

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/tooth-in-eye-surgery-canada-1.7470626

by qkeast • 1 year ago

152 56 1 year ago

cbc.ca

dang6• 1 year ago

[stub for offtopicness]

matthewsinclair• 1 year ago

I guess it does bring new meaning to the phrase “eye teeth”.

ceoofballin• 1 year ago

Okay, what the actual fuck?

ValdikSS• 1 year ago

You don't need horror movies with such science.

dang6• 1 year ago

Or at any rate with such headlines.

We've adopted the more neutral subtitle now.

card_zero• 1 year ago

I'm looking through Gary Gilmore's teeth

Oh, it's your own teeth they use. That answers one question.

iLoveOncall• 1 year ago

The title should be edited. It's missing the main part which is that the tooth will be implanted in the eye of the patient, not left in their mouth.

qkeast2• 1 year ago

Apparently the title was edited since I posted it—it was originally about the same as the article.

dang6• 1 year ago

Good point! More at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43209012.

Frederation• 1 year ago

An.. eye-tooth, if you will.

elteto• 1 year ago

An eye for an (eye|tooth) and a tooth for a (tooth|eye).

dcminter2• 1 year ago

It's nothing like as as grotesque as the headline makes it sound. Worth reading.

Suggested headline: "Surgery implants tooth material in eye as scaffolding for lens" or something like that?

dang6• 1 year ago

Ok, let's try that. Thanks!

itishappy3• 1 year ago

Heh, I'd argue it's grosser. It's the cheek thing for me.

dcminter2• 1 year ago

I mean it's a bit gross, but the version of the headline I saw made me think it was some kind of in-mouth camera and I was wondering how on earth they routed the optic nerve down there (silly of me perhaps, because I've read about this before, but that's how it took me initially).

Grossness aside, it's pretty interesting that the need for biocompatibility made this something worth considering at all though.

Etheryte• 1 year ago

At first I was curious if they'd included any pictures of what it actually looks like, but when I saw the pictures I definitely came to doubt my decision. So for the feint of heart, beware.

JadoJodo• 1 year ago

Yeah, that is something. Reminds me a bit of the eye worn by Charles Dance's character in Last Action Hero.

reneherse2• 1 year ago

Like something out of a Lynch or Cronenberg film. Definitely not what I was expecting

ada19812• 1 year ago

Surprised they didn't do a tattoo of an eye or something...

vacuity• 1 year ago

Upvoted the post so more people will see the pictures. And because it's uh, interesting and stuff, of course!

tptacek3• 1 year ago

This is the first I'd heard of this, and I did some poking around, and came to the conclusion that this surgery is ~mostly obsolete --- which is an answer (for me) to the question of "don't they have a better substance to use as a lens substrate than tooth?"

johnisgood• 1 year ago

Why is it obsolete?

ada19812• 1 year ago

I'd like an answer that is more than just a sound bite.

tptacek3• 1 year ago

They still do it, obviously, but we have better artificial corneas now.

reneherse2• 1 year ago

What are the moral and legal implications of such a surgery? An eye for a tooth, a tooth for an eye?

__MatrixMan__• 1 year ago

If you damage somebody's eye which happens to have their tooth embedded in it, then justice means takeing one of your eyes and one of your teeth. Pretty sure it's a footnote in Hammurabi somewhere...

smkelly• 1 year ago

Very curious why you'd take this approach over something like the Boston Keratoprosthesis (https://eyewiki.org/Boston_Type_1_Keratoprosthesis). With a history of cornea rejection, mine has been stable for almost 16 years.

haskellandchill• 1 year ago

From your link

Many studies have shown the incidence of repair procedures and worse final vision outcomes were higher in groups with autoimmune conditions (SJS, OCP). The difference in outcomes appears to be related to the degree and cumulative past period of inflammation. Overall most favorable outcomes are achieved in non-cicatrizing conditions, followed by ocular burns and OCP with the worst outcomes in SJS patients.

The patient in the article was a SJS patient

The massage therapist says he could see just fine until he was 13 years old, when he took some ibuprofen after a school basketball game, triggering a rare auto-immune reaction known as Stevens-Johnson syndrome.

johnmales• 1 year ago

There are some circumstances where a keratoprosthesis won’t work, particularly if the eye has no tear production. OOKP is a good technique in some where they are blind in both eyes from severe ocular surface issues but the retina is still intact. It is very resource intensive and involves a number of subspecialty areas, and so is a last ditch effort for the bilaterally blind.

itishappy3• 1 year ago

That's by far the most cyberpunk looking prosthetic I've ever seen. I'm glad it works for you, thanks for sharing!

Google Image Search:

https://www.google.com/search?udm=2&q=Boston+Keratoprosthesi...

ChrisArchitect• 1 year ago

Had to bite and check this out after disbelief from the headline that such a thing was going on. Pretty wacky. But also amazing that some doc/researcher out there ran with a hunch to figure out if this was an option to help some people improve their lives. Sci-fi vibes but appreciate the motive.

westurner2• 1 year ago

/? eye transplant https://hn.algolia.com/?q=eye+transplant

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:ZlcYhwhYqiUJ:sc...

From "Clinical and Scientific Considerations for Whole Eye Transplantation: An Ophthalmologist's Perspective" (2025) https://tvst.arvojournals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2802568 :

Whereas advances in gene therapy, neurotrophic factor administration, and electric field stimulation have shown promise in preclinical optic nerve crush injury models, researchers have yet to demonstrate efficacy in optic nerve transection models—a model that more closely mimics WET. Moreover, directing long-distance axon growth past the optic chiasm is still challenging and has only been shown by a handful of approaches. [5–8]
Another consideration is that even if RGC axons could jump across the severed nerve ending, it would be impossible to guarantee maintenance of the retinal-cortical map. For example, if the left eye were shifted clockwise during nerve coaptation, RGCs in the superior-nasal quadrant of donor retinas would end up synapsing with superior-temporal neurons in the host's geniculate nucleus. This limitation also plagues RGC-specific transplantation approaches; its effect on vision restoration is unknown.

"Combined Whole Eye and Face Transplant: Microsurgical Strategy and 1-Year Clinical Course" (2024) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39250113/ :

Abstract: [...] Serial electroretinography confirmed retinal responses to light in the transplanted eye. Using structural and functional magnetic resonance imaging, the integrity of the transplanted visual pathways and potential occipital cortical response to light stimulation of the transplanted eye was demonstrated. At 1 year post transplant (postoperative day 366), there was no perception of light in the transplanted eye.

"Technical Feasibility of Whole-eye Vascular Composite Allotransplantation: A Systematic Review" (2023) https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2023/04000/Technical... :

With nervous coaptation, 82.9% of retinas had positive electroretinogram signals after surgery, indicating functional retinal cells after transplantation. Results on optic nerve function were inconclusive. Ocular-motor functionality was rarely addressed.

How to target NGF(s) to the optic nerve?

Magnets? RF convergence?

How to resect allotransplant and allograft optic nerve tissue?

How to stimulate neuronal growth in general?

Near-infrared stimulates neuronal growth and also there's red light therapy.

Nanotransfection stimulates tissue growth by in-vivo stroma reprogramming.

How to understand the optic nerve portion of the connectome?

The Visual and Auditory cortices are observed to be hierarchical.

Near-field imaging of [optic] nerves better than standard VEP Visual Evoked Potential tests would enable optimization of [optic nerve] transection.

VEP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoked_potential#Visual_evoked...

Ophthalmologic science is important because - while it's possible to fight oxidation and aging - our eyes go.

Upper-atmospheric radiation is terrible on eyes. This could be a job for space medicine, and pilots.

Accomodating IOLs that resist UV damage better than natural tissue: Ocumetics

From "Portable low-field MRI scanners could revolutionize medical imaging" (2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34990738 :

Is MRI-level neuroimaging possible with just NIRS Near-Infrared Spectroscopy?

From "Language models can explain neurons in language models" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35886145 :

So, to run the same [fMRI, NIRS,] stimulus response activation observation/burn-in again weeks or months later with the same subjects is likely necessary given Representational drift.

"Reversible optical data storage below the diffraction limit (2023)" [at cryogenic temperatures] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38528844 :

[...] have successfully demonstrated that a beam of light can not only be confined to a spot that is 50 times smaller than its own wavelength but also “in a first of its kind” the spot can be moved by minuscule amounts at the point where the light is confined.

Optical tweezers operating below the Abbe diffraction limit are probably of use in resecting neurovascular tissue in the optic nerve (the retina and visual cortex)?

"Real-space nanophotonic field manipulation using non-perturbative light–matter coupling" (2023) https://opg.optica.org/optica/fulltext.cfm?uri=optica-10-1-1... :

"One can write, erase, and rewrite an infinite number of times,"*

westurner2• 1 year ago

"Retinoid restores eye-specific brain responses in mice with retinal degeneration" (2022) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33129531

Fluoxetine increases plasticity in the adult visual cortex; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43079501

Zebrafish can regrow eyes,

From the "What if Eye...?" virtual eyes in a petri dish simulation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43044958 :

[ mTor in Axolotls, ]

"Reactivating Dormant Cells in the Retina Brings New Hope for Vision Regeneration" (2023) https://neurosciencenews.com/vision-restoration-genetic-2318... :

“What’s interesting is that these Müller cells are known to reactivate and regenerate retina in fish,” she said. “But in mammals, including humans, they don’t normally do so, not after injury or disease. And we don’t yet fully understand why.”

/? Regenerative medicine for ophthalmologic applications

nikanj• 1 year ago

I wonder how this surgery was originally 1) invented 2) proposed to colleagues.

"Hey peeps, I've been bouncing around this idea lately. So you know how Mrs Smith in room 230 has no eyesight left? Well one of her teeth came off when she fell last night, and I started thinking.."

inglor_cz• 1 year ago

Same here. How TF people just come up with such ideas.

Electricniko• 1 year ago

Oh great, now I have to brush my eyes before I go to bed too.

trhway• 1 year ago

only when you did some devouring using your eyes

uhoh-itsmaciek• 1 year ago

It involves removing a patient's tooth, usually the canine, installing a plastic optical lens inside it, and then implanting the whole thing into the eye.

How fitting that the material usually comes from eyeteeth!

crossroadsguy2• 1 year ago

So these sciency folks have managed to move tooth from the mouth to the eyes but still want to pluck some teeth off to move around some other teeth parked wrongly; and then expect me to have something installed forever to keep them in place, even after all that planned uprooting. Huh.

dmoy• 1 year ago

fwiw in the US, typically even extremely messed up teeth don't require removal to fix with orthodontics. Some ortho places will advocate it because it's easier. But if you get a few quotes in a big city usually someone can do it without pulling.

Wisdom teeth often do require pulling cus they literally don't fit (idk if this is an evolution thing - were people losing teeth normally enough that a new one coming in wasn't overcrowding?)

jasinjames• 1 year ago

I think this is an evolution thing but not in that way. I believe when our diets changed due to agriculture the foods we ate got softer and our mouths subsequently changed [1]

[1]https://www.pittwire.pitt.edu/pittwire/features-articles/cur...

crossroadsguy2• 1 year ago

What are those procedures that I can discuss with an orthodontist? Because almost everybody here (not in US) tries to sell one package or the other and even with that they add teeth removal and life long retainer and what not.

k_sze• 1 year ago

One thing I don't understand is how the surgeon ensures the lens is positioned correctly. We're talking about a rigid lens that can no longer be controlled via muscles, right? Doesn't any misalignment mean you get a fuzzy image at best? And even if you can get a sharp image for some given, fixed distance, you still can't control whether to focus on near things or far things when you look, right??

babyent• 1 year ago

Imagine if we could put an iphone camera or something like that into the eyeball and somehow wire it up to the brain. That'd be sick.

itishappy3• 1 year ago

If you've ever played around with a magnifying glass, they accept a surprising amount of tilt. It's not a clear image, but a blurry image is better than no image.

This surgery is for people who've had their eyes destroyed by chemicals or similar. They don't always have the structure remaining for any finer control.

AStonesThrow• 1 year ago

"An eye for an eye; a tooth for a tooth: vote for me & I'll set U free!" https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=5HjUxggPd6E&si=LquS4OiJI-I...

[English translation: https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=XX2GD7q7-wA&si=2ZuxnqxYxoT...]

jensenbox• 1 year ago

Brings new meaning to "eye tooth" - amirite?

jbirer• 1 year ago

As someone with Type 2 diabetes, I am eternally grateful for everyone who works on future eye surgery advancements. Especially for people who work in tech, it's nearly a death sentence.

Surgery implants tooth material in eye as scaffolding for lens

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