Was fired Facebook yoga instructor right to silence cell phone user in class?

http://venturebeat.com/2012/07/15/was-fired-facebook-yoga-instructor-right-to-silence-cell-phone-user-in-class/

by shin_lao • 14 years ago

15 37 14 years ago

oliwarner2• 14 years ago

Yes. It's yoga.

gte910h2• 14 years ago

That feels like sarcasm, but honestly, yoga has some dangerous poses in it, I think it's not unreasonable to demand few distractions when doing something possibly dangerous.

Volpe• 14 years ago

Like crossing a road?

Or driving?

That argument is fairly weak.

oliwarner2• 14 years ago

Absolutely no sarcasm intended.

Yoga is all about reaching an inner peace through physical and mental discipline. Sitting there with your phone beeping and buzzing is an offensively poor effort to do an activity well.

alxp• 14 years ago

I wonder how many food service workers get canned for not smiling enough at the important people.

protomyth2• 14 years ago

"Van Ness didn’t say anything, but she gave the student a look of disapproval. The student later complained, and it cost Van Ness her job"

Perhaps the employee needs to stop taking yoga classes as their disposition isn't compatible.

citricsquid• 14 years ago

If someone is supposed to be the target of your attention (be it in class, at dinner or during your every day life) societal expectations should be that you give them your attention. 20 years ago you wouldn't turn on the television in the middle of a conversation, you wouldn't turn on the radio either.

I can sort of understand if it's a child in high school, after all they're in class because they're required to be, however in a class that has been chosen (by an adult) it's not acceptable. The student should have excused herself from the class if it was so important her attention was elsewhere.

Legion• 14 years ago

To me, it's not even about that.

It's about one person feeling they have the right to carry on as a noisy nuisance in that environment, to the detriment of everyone else's experience.

If the person's activity was silent, making the only social breach ignoring the instructor, I'd be much less likely to consider that a problem in need of addressing.

caudicus• 14 years ago

Caution: recently minted millionaire egos at play.

zalew2• 14 years ago

don't laugh, yoga gossip is serious business. comming up next: the hot dog in googleplex wasn't warm enough. stay tuned for more irrelevant crap in the next episode of 'unknown people working at famous places'.

kgrin• 14 years ago

Not to be overly contrarian, but I wonder to what extent the setting matters. I don't know all the details, but it sounds like it was a workplace yoga studio. What if the call was a work-related emergency?

One of the virtues of having an on-site yoga studio has to be that you can take a break during the workday... but if there's a reasonable expectation of being reachable, asking everyone to leave work at the door 100% isn't totally realistic (and might mean that some people can't participate).

So while the normal rules of courtesy still apply, and the person receiving the call should probably step out if the call looks like it's going to drag on, the setting does matter.

humbledrone2• 14 years ago

There's a very simple solution to this problem: the cell phone user should politely walk out of the classroom and take the call outside the door. It sounds like the student in question took the call right in the classroom, which is rude regardless of the setting. Imagine taking a call in the middle of a meeting, in a conference room!

joezydeco• 14 years ago

I really would like the ability to answer my phone with some kind of recorded message that would then go to hold. Lots of times I'd like to talk to the caller, but don't want to start talking until I'm out of the room and/or earshot. Does this exist?

protomyth2• 14 years ago

No, the setting really doesn't matter. You walk out of the class in a discrete manner. Courtesy and respect for others is universal. You certainly don't follow up your poor behavior by complaining that you got a look from an instructor.

lazerwalker• 14 years ago

This is silly. If you're in a class, and you disagree witih how the teacher runs things, you stop taking the class. I'd be shocked if Facebook didn't have multiple instructors.

That being said, I'd hardly be shocked if there was to the story than Good Morning America is letting on.

true_religion2• 14 years ago

What if you employ the teacher and tell them to allow cellphones, then they decide to run things differently?

zalew2• 14 years ago

> she gave the student a look of disapproval. The student later complained

a real tough guy.

prodigal_erik• 14 years ago

Facebook is big into mobile engagement, so I suppose it's not in their interest to have social norms that involve disconnecting during daily life. But this sounds like merely a conflict between "yoga is exercise" and "yoga is new age religion" people.

true_religion2• 14 years ago

So.... she was told that she couldn't prohibit cellphone usage in class yet she tried to embarrass a mid-level or higher executive into not using his or her cellphone?

Well... if you try to shame your bosses, you get fired. This is a non-story.

erre• 14 years ago

Seriously? She gave him a look, and he complained? Prima donnas, are we?

RaviSParikh• 14 years ago

If this happened as reported, then it's a ridiculous story. As several have said one can easily walk outside and take a call if it's really that urgent. However I find that in these stories there tends to be another side to it that isn't being reported. Either way I'm not really sure why it's on Hacker News, not particularly insightful or interesting.

tptacek5• 14 years ago

A detail you would want to have before you came to a conclusion about this:

"At Facebook and a number of other institutions we work with, instructors cannot preclude fitness center users from answering their phones," David Milani, a spokesman for Plus One Health Management, which runs Facebook's gym, told me. He didn't want to tell me a lot more, other than that "there is no doubt that this instructor knew that."

I don't see the issue here. This person's job was not to teach yoga. It was to make employees happier, and to increase Facebook's attractiveness in the job market. Facebook came to believe that the way she conducted her class, while perhaps effective at conveying yoga, made her less effective as an employee perk. End of story. Facebook's role here, to the extent that it invests in yoga classes, is to ensure that whoever is teaching yoga is doing so in the way that maximizes the happiness of its employees.

If you want to command the respect of serious yoga students, don't teach yoga as an employee perk for hire.

Think of it in these terms: people call tech support lines all the time and unleash torrents of the worst rudeness you can imagine. How long do you think a well-run call center would retain a phone support person who chided callers for impoliteness?

joe_the_user2• 14 years ago

If Facebook hired an office assistant and decided that it improved employee morale to also throw marshmallows at said office assistant as they walked down the hall, well that's what that office assistant was hired for. If they complain, get another one. "End of story".

If you want to be a real office assistant, go someplace else.

[yes, I am being sarcastic, I believe it is illustrative in this case]

Edit: Also Thomas, are you saying that employees have a right to be rude to personel of their company's helpdesk?

tptacek5• 14 years ago

I think this is a ridiculous apples-oranges comparison.

The sole purpose of a yoga instructor at Facebook is to improve employee morale. Facebook is entirely justified in looking to optimize yoga instructors for employee happiness. This particular yoga intructor was apparently not a good fit.

rosstafarian• 14 years ago

Wow that's an amazing view. First of all she didnt say anything it was a god damn look, she couldve had a stomach cramp and made a face for all the person on the phone knows. The article also states that this was during a difficult pose the instructor was demonstrating, what about the "happyness" of the other employees in the class? Don't you think distracting them by talking on the phone ruins their experience and makes all those other people less happy, just to make 1 more happy? This type of rule seems in place for business purposes(business related calls comming in that can't wait) not for what might or might not make a person happy. If this employee has such ego problems that shes rude enough to answer the phone, not step out of the class and distract everyone else then complain about the a god damn look she got from the teacher, the only word i can think of using for her is "bitch" and i wouldn't want some one like that at my company.

tptacek5• 14 years ago

For whatever it's worth, here's her side of the story:

They have a little gym there where I taught a yoga class, in addition to Pilates and cycling classes.

Right before class began, a student was typing on her phone. Noticing this, I asked the whole class to turn off their cell phones.

She obliged, put it down next to her mat, and we began.

Halfway into class, right as I was starting a demo of ardha chandrasna (half moon pose), she decided to check her phone.

I stopped talking and looked at her.

I said nothing, but I’m sure my face said it all. “Really? Your email is more important than understanding your body? It’s more important than taking time for you? It’s more important than everyone else here?”

Oh, and by the way, she was in the middle of the front row.

She stepped out and rejoined class a few minutes later. Apparently, she had gone to complain to management.

Previously, I had been asked by management to just let the students do whatever they wanted.

Come in late, leave early, answer emails, come in during class to get weights, take photos for the newsletter—whatever came up, I was told to just say yes.

So, on this day, I didn’t actually say anything to this student. I just looked at her with utter disbelief.

Two weeks later, I was fired from the Facebook gym.

I contested the decision at the time since I didn’t actually ask her to leave.

They had already made their decision.

"Come in late, leave early, answer emails, come in during class to get weights, take photos for the newsletter—whatever came up, I was told to just say yes." What did she think was going to happen?

kamaal2• 14 years ago

Not sure if they even wanted to run a yoga class.

Even movie theaters these days ask people to turn off their phones and when you don't people frown on you.

The reason is you are actually disturbing other serious people who have actually come to learn, do and enjoy it in its reality.

grailholder• 14 years ago

I felt bad for her until I read this which actually is her side of the story. It appears that a similar issue must have been brought to the management's attention previously since she was told to let her students do whatever they want. The incident is in clear violation of their pleads because she stopped a class to single out the person using her phone. The fact that she did not actually say anything is irrelevant here.

nhebb• 14 years ago

Two things I find wrong with this article:

1. The headline says "silence". That conjures up imagery of the loud cell phone talker, but from the context of the article it's more likely that the yoga student was texting or emailing.

2. The article also states that "Plus One Health Management told the San Jose Mercury News that Van Ness had been told that she could not prohibit cell phone use in class." I assume that Van Ness had been advised on this before she started teaching the class not after being fired, but the article isn't explicit. It might be that if these yoga classes are offered in the middle of the day, that Facebook employees might be expected to answer important emails during class.

This article is short on the facts needed to properly judge the situation.

loceng• 14 years ago

LOL. It's not yoga if it was allowed - you'd call that a fitness class then.

Was fired Facebook yoga instructor right to silence cell phone user in class?

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