Why would a YC company use 99Designs for web design?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4240671

by MRonney • 14 years ago

24 47 14 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I'm a web designer and was talking to a YC company about designing their site. Instead of going with me or any designer for that matter, they put a contest up on 99designs with a whopping grand prize of $200. They kindly let me know that they would love for me to enter. Shouldn't a YC company know better? You would think the most sough-after mentos would tell their startups to invest in good design. Am i missing something here? Has any startup had a good experience designing their site with 99designs or similar sites?

il2• 14 years ago

YC companies are told to launch an MVP with a design that's good enough as fast as possible and iterate from there.

Spending months obsessing over a pixel-perfect design before you know you've made something people want is the wrong way to launch a startup.

larrys5• 14 years ago

"Spending months obsessing over a pixel-perfect design before you know you've made something people want "

Kickstarter projects as only one example run contrary to that thinking. It is easier to get people to buy into an idea if it looks professional and is well executed. This is not saying to throw money out and to "Spend... months obsessing over a pixel-perfect design"

Hiring a designer instead of 99designs is not the same as "spending months obsessing..".

This is not to imply that hiring a designer is always appropriate and using 99designs is not. It depends on the particular situation and circumstances obviously.

As an example google (which PG cited and forgetting it's one data point) is a service that is free and the results are immediately apparent after using it. If google were trying to crack corporate america with a paid product that design wouldn't have gotten them anywhere.

eli4• 14 years ago

Uh, Google was trying to crack corporate america with a paid product at the time that website was around. Before they launched ads in 2000, all the revenue came from selling the Google Search Appliance.

kmonsen• 14 years ago

kickstarter => selling to the masses

yc => selling to experts who understand the domain

Design will be more important at kickstarter.

il2• 14 years ago

Most enterprise software in 2012 looks a lot worse than Google in 1998.

ebrenes• 14 years ago

But you don't even need a product to do a Kickstarter. In fact in most cases the product doesn't even exist, the only thing that exists is the design and even that gets changed once the projects is funded sometimes to the chagrin of the backers when they receive a product that did not meet the original design expectations. (for example: http://a.wholelottanothing.org/2012/01/lessons-for-kickstart...)

So yes, if all you're selling is an idea, instead of a product, then of course design matters as that's all you've got.

pg3• 14 years ago

http://blogoscoped.com/files/google-com-history/1998.jpg

larrys5• 14 years ago

I think the OP has his answer.

In any case I do not agree. Design does matter even if there are outliers that break that mold. If you have no funding then you have to do what you can given your resources. If you have money you can allocate it wisely which is not the same as throwing it away.

thaumaturgy5• 14 years ago

Why are you citing something from 1998 as an example of successful design in 2012?

GotToStartup• 14 years ago

While I agree that pg's example is a bit extreme, the point still stands. At the beginning stages, great design won't determine the success of the product. Having customers will. So time and money is better spent in other areas. This isn't to say they won't come to you eventually when a better design is needed. Great design is still important, just not at the stage this company is at.

brlewis3• 14 years ago

That's not an example of successful design. That's an example of a successful company for whom design was secondary. I think YC founding teams in a field where design is of primary importance generally have design talent in the team.

larrys5• 14 years ago

"citing something from 1998"

Of course if one is going to use an example of where design didn't matter in 1998 you could always counter with an example of the imac, circa 1998, of which the design was key to the success of the product. (I won't even get into the other apple products).

http://designmuseum.org/exhibitions/online/jonathan-ive-on-a...

kevinpet• 14 years ago

Nobody but designers care about a "successful design". They are supposed to be caring about a successful business, which means a good enough design.

pg3• 14 years ago

The point is not that startups should make sites that look exactly like that, but that initially they can get away with similarly low production values.

garethsprice• 14 years ago

I have a similar image from Facebook posted up above my desk: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CSGOgp31KQE/TXzi88yH1XI/AAAAAAAAO7...

eriksean• 14 years ago

Money is a factor. A company is YC is not flush with cash -- the YC investment is $11,000 + $3000 per founder.

If you were building a start-up, and had to cut corners somewhere, think about where you might do so.

technotony• 14 years ago

They get Yuri Milner's $150k too so they are not that broke...

nedwin• 14 years ago

They get this when the finish the program, not at the start.

benologist• 14 years ago

The difference between good design and good enough design doesn't matter to almost the entire world.

larrys5• 14 years ago

"I'm a web designer and was talking to a YC company about designing their site

....a whopping grand prize of $200. They kindly let me know that they would love for me to enter."

Apparently they think everyone places zero value on their time as well.

I think this also shows a certain maturity level and knowledge of business on their part regardless of the direction they have chosen. It would have been more appropriate to show an understanding of how things work and give you a softer landing. As in "we decided we didn't want to spend money on a designer and have decided to go another route. Thanks for your time and effort."

By the way I think I figured out who you are and you do nice work. (100 billion beverage cans?).

vchoi• 14 years ago

It's regional thing too. Depending on the location, the startup's values places emphasis on different things. An NYC startup probably has more emphasis on 'smoke and mirrors', and has more of a market to capitalize your design skills for.

roycyang• 14 years ago

I don't agree with the assessment that NYC startups are more "smoke and mirrors". I will concede that there seems to be more of an engineering culture in SV and more of a design culture in NYC but if you look at NYC it's to be expected.

eli4• 14 years ago

A great product can easily overcome mediocre web design, but a fantastic website will never overcome a crappy product.

wells-riley• 14 years ago

Exactly. No one uses Pinterest for this exact reason.

eli4• 14 years ago

Snark if you want to, but I believe what I said.

I wish a successful product launch just meant you had to have a great looking website! That would make my life easier.

HeyLaughingBoy• 14 years ago

Because sometimes things have to be done to a price point?

If $200 is all they can afford, then so be it. They'll seek to get the best product for the price. Maybe you would have done a better job, maybe not, but in either case it doesn't matter. They budgeted an amount and moved on. So should you. not everyone is in your target market.

brylong• 14 years ago

A lot of times founders don't have the knowledge to know the difference between a good designer and a bad designer. So I can try to pick one of the 10 I talked to and get one set of designs that I have to pay for or I can go to 99design and get 100 to look at and choose one to pay for. Once I get that design I can go back to a designer to tweak things if I need to, but more likely I will reach out to the person on 99 that designed it to help.

thaumaturgy5• 14 years ago

YC says they are looking for the next Steve Jobs (http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html). The most oft-cited reason for Steve Jobs' success was his ruthless attention to detail in all aspects of design, even when others didn't think it mattered (e.g., http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story...).

I doubt that "the next Steve Jobs" would spend $200 at 99Designs for his company's first impressions.

eli4• 14 years ago

What percentage of Apple's budget do you imagine was spent on marketing in the pre-Apple II years? I bet it was pretty small compared to what was spent on product development.

The Apple I didn't come with a keyboard or a case. It was not much to look at from a visual design standpoint.

garry• 14 years ago

This is a dangerous example of cargo culting. What is right for Apple is not always right for every startup on the planet.

thaumaturgy5• 14 years ago

You're saying this in a thread that was started by pg citing Google as an example of what is right.

Furthermore, YC is specifically looking for "the next Steve Jobs". I did not choose Apple as an example of what is right; they did. I merely pointed out that the advice re: design conflicted with what they claim to be looking for.

Matt_Mickiewicz• 14 years ago

Co-founder of 99designs here.

For clarification, there's no such thing as a $200 web design contest on 99designs.

Prices start at $599 but you really have to offer $1000-$2000 or more to get a good result. You browse thousands of finished web design projects here to see the outcomes that customers get:

http://99designs.com/web-design/contests?show=finished

I think the quality speaks for itself... the typical 7-10 day turnaround is also very helpful for a fast-moving start-up that needs results FAST and doesn't want to spend time getting multiple quotes/proposals and reviewing contracts.

ebiester• 14 years ago

We're working with someone who is a friend of my co-founder's, but if we had no inexpensive contacts with the design community I would consider a very cheap option. (I don't believe in spec work, but I wouldn't hesitate to hire a student or offshore, or to use Themeforest for that matter.)

It isn't that I don't respect the results that a great designer can provide, but I don't have the budget for it. Thus, I'm handling the User Experience, and depending on the designer to provide the graphics because I am inefficient in Illustrator and Photoshop, and I don't want to spend the money for legal copies. (I use Gimp and Inkscape but I'm very inefficient none the less.)

99Designs isn't paying for design as much as paying for a set of graphics that can be used. Great design is for people who have money. Now, it so happens that I'm focused on front end work and I've worked with good UX people in the past, so I am ahead of the game on UX, but this is the trade off that most startups will make.

kinglouis• 14 years ago

As a first design, I even use a theme because it has all the tools I need : different layouts, buttons, boxes, typos...

Here is an example of a theme with the related website : - http://themeforest.net/item/fadelicious-responsive-html-blog... - http://jolishare.com

I think working with a designer comes later.

Why would a YC company use 99Designs for web design?

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