Tesla delays Cybertruck's range extender, reduces its range

https://electrek.co/2024/10/21/tesla-delays-cybertrucks-range-extender-reduces-its-range/

by doener • 2 years ago

58 97 2 years ago

electrek.co

column• 2 years ago

Range extender's range extender when ?

isoprophlex• 2 years ago

The Full Self Extending Range Extender: preorder now! Only $7999!

galkk2• 2 years ago

The range downgrade from initial presentation was the sole reason why I cancelled preorder and ended up with hybrid f150 instead.

beAbU3• 2 years ago

I find your comment quite strange to be honest, and it's not comment. There are so many "the-final-straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back-I-cancelled-my-order" comments out there, of folks claiming loudly that they're getting an F150 instead.

The F150 and the Cybertruck is so far apart in terms of the type of vehicle they are that I can't really understand how they are used in the same conversation. It makes 0 sense to me to say "I'm going with the F150 instead", because it's not the same class of vehicles.

I'm keen to understand what you were hoping to get out the Cybertruck, that you are now instead going to get from a hybrid F150, and why you did not consider the F150 in the first place.

vasco2• 2 years ago

They fit perfectly together in the category "cool truck if you don't need a truck" so it's very easy to see why.

grecy7• 2 years ago

Also the Cybertruck is vastly outselling the electric f150, and there is almost no wait now, unlike the f150 which ford don’t seem to be able to scale production

the_mitsuhiko3• 2 years ago

The F150 and the Cybertruck is so far apart in terms of the type of vehicle they are that I can't really understand how they are used in the same conversation. It makes 0 sense to me to say "I'm going with the F150 instead", because it's not the same class of vehicles.

Are they not both trucks? What am I missing in that they are not the same class of vehicle?

galkk2• 2 years ago

The F150 and the Cybertruck is so far apart in terms of the type of vehicle they are that I can't really understand how they are used in the same conversation. It makes 0 sense to me

I am sorry, but you start with flawed premise and the rest doesn't make sense to me, actually. They both are vehicles with crew cab and bed, that are capable of hauling and towing stuff. They shape or the fuel type are not really relevant to me, like I don't care of the fuel type (diesel/gas) of a semi that I see on the road.

Let's compare 2023 F150 powerboost supercrew 6.5 bed with characteristics that I wanted and cybertruck tri motor (announced, https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3d2aca_ce63bacb1ff240228e...)

1. payload - f150: 2,120lbs, cybertruck: 3500 lbs 2. range - f150: 450+ cybertruck: 500+ 3. towing - f150: 12,700 cybertruck: 14000 4. bed - I wanted something longer than 6'1", so I can lay down in bed. That ruled out F150 short bed and rivian, but cybertruck was very close

Judging by numbers, that indicate real truck usage, cybertruck was close or exceeding F150, that is taken as baseline. If you want to draw some arbitrary classes and say that they are different, it's your right, but actually to me you make 0 sense saying "far apart in terms of the type of vehicle they are that I can't really understand how they are used in the same conversation. " or "not the same class of vehicles".

Explain to me where they are different classes, actually. Fuel type to me is an implementation detail.

I am getting larger range and longer bed. If Ford had F150 lightning with 450+ range and 6.5 bed, I'd strongly consider it too.

cameldrv• 2 years ago

The range downgrade was a significant disappointment. If you figure towing a trailer cuts the range by about half, the Cybertruck at 500/250 miles would be not great but reasonable for pulling a camper on a trip, but at 300/150 miles, it’s just not practical. The off-road performance also is sub-par, so it’s not good at two of the main things people buy a truck for. As a fashion statement I guess it’s still pretty good if you like the styling.

blackeyeblitzar• 2 years ago

Tesla has missed on pricing with new vehicle programs before, and inflation has been exceptionally high in the few years between the original unveiling and pricing of the Cybertruck in 2019 and its start of production last year.
But when it comes to specs, Tesla has generally delivered on its promises. Not with the Cybertruck.

Agree. The miss on range with the Cybertruck is too big to ignore. I can understand the price increases due to inflation or whatever. But the enticing thing was getting 500+ miles on the tri motor version, which would have made it unlike anything else - a magical mix of power, utility, and range to put it to use (or just help with range anxiety). The drop from “500+” to 320 is HUGE.

I don’t know if this range extender really makes sense either. Will people really pay 16K more to get 120 miles more while losing 1/3rd of their bed space? To me that seems like a bad deal. Why not just get a Model X at that point?

As an alternative I would prefer a PHEV truck that provides 50 miles of range so most trips are fully electric, but with a gas engine available for longer trips. The 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger will provide that, with an engine that works as a generator (to power electric motors).

kortilla2• 2 years ago

The drop from 500 to 320 also meant that towing a decent load dropped from like 180 to 80. It became useless for anything but around town towing.

The 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger will provide that, with an engine that works as a generator (to power electric motors).

I’ve heard so little about this since the announcement I’m really worried it’s going to be killed or pushed out 4 years with the rest of the industry walking back their EV promises.

Maken• 2 years ago

Is anyone actually using Cybertrucks for towing heavy loads? I'm under the impression it's mostly a recreational vehicle.

gabesullice2• 2 years ago

It'd be funny to hack the range extender's protocol so you could install a diesel electric generator instead of a battery pack.

ZiiS3• 2 years ago

A generator capable of more then 20mph charging would be beyond the towing capacity.

pbmonster2• 2 years ago

Interesting project.

I wonder if you could get a useful system without using up the entire bed. In order to get "infinite" range while towing, you'd probably want at least a 100kW ICE in the back. A 100kW diesel generator is a beefy boy, those usually come on a two axle trailer. But maybe you could build something more compact with a performance motorcycle engine...

Also, can the cybertruck charge its main battery from the range extender? Or can it drive while the charging port is supplied with current? The entire idea kind of dies if the ICE can't charge the main battery, you really want that to buffer demand.

trhway• 2 years ago

range extender wartime style:

https://x.com/KyivPost/status/1608407902242635781?lang=en

jillesvangurp3• 2 years ago

The range extender is a bit of an odd product considering both the range added (limited) and the form factor (taking up a lot of space in the back).

While the range drop is disappointing, it's still plenty of range. More than enough for normal drivers that aren't anxiety ridden about range. Most people only drive about 12000 miles per year. And rarely over 300 in a single day. And when you do go on a long trip: relax, have a break (you'll need it) and charge up the car and yourself. It's not healthy to be on the road non stop regularly. You can charge the car up plenty over a nice lunch break. If you need a second stop after nine hours of driving or so, you need a break as well. And no, you aren't super human.

The product itself seems popular. Tesla now is starting to dominate the truck market. And they only barely started ramping up production. It's going to be interesting to see how they'll do when they reach their production volume targets. It's of course a divisive product with its styling and features. But it's arguably performing well in sales. Despite the currently high price.

jrflowers2• 2 years ago

Tesla now is starting to dominate the truck market.

Do you mean “dominate” in some sort of philosophical way unrelated to numbers?

grecy7• 2 years ago

Photos of the battery show it is half only full of cells, and a lead engineer at Tesla commented as much.

I think it likely there will be a much higher range version later, but they’re cell constrained for now so they’re only putting one layer of cells into the pack

Eggpants• 2 years ago

I suspect they are more constrained by cell thermals/cooling otherwise why take the obvious PR hit of providing much less range than promised.

kleiba3• 2 years ago

Overpromise and underdeliver. But this strategy still has its merit because it often is important in a competetive market just to be "first" somehow and capture a certain notion in people's mind. Just like Tesla in general now personifies electric cars because it was first (which it wasn't, but it certainly kicked off the mainstream EV market in the West). With the Cybertruck reveal, the point was to present something radical. The design, the numbers! Whether Tesla can actually deliver that by the time the truck comes to the market is almost secondary. Sure, some people are going to be pissed off, but in other people's minds, forever there will be this memory engrained of this amazingly radical thing this amazingly different company, Tesla, did back in 2019.

Btw, can you believe it's been 5 years since the Cybertruck was first unvealed?

verzali• 2 years ago

Getting first doesn't mean much if you don't keep up with innovation. Just look at Xerox, Kodak, Nokia, Blackberry... Plenty of companies have had good products but were then outpaced by people who took what they did and made it better, cheaper, whatever.

kleiba3• 2 years ago

Most of the example you cite were not outpaced by the competition in the same market - they missed the boat when their tech space got disrupted by a completely new and different alternative to their product.

ZeroGravitas• 2 years ago

Cybertruck was supposed to be first by taking a radically different approach to building a truck that would let them deliver a lighter (structural exoskeleton) and cheaper (no paint) truck to offset the expensive batteries.

In the time it took them to do that, cheaper batteries in a standard truck became feasible.

kleiba3• 2 years ago

True.

Btw, does anyone have hands-on experience with such a truck like, say, an F150 lightning?

rickdeckard4• 2 years ago

Tesla has missed on pricing with new vehicle programs before,
But when it comes to specs, Tesla has generally delivered on its promises.

That's an easy cop-out. If in good-faith, it just means that Tesla knows how to build the spec but has no idea what it means to scale it. In bad-faith, it's a calculated unfettered media-hype.

I would expect a company which reached the stage of presenting a product to have at least a prototype as well as some grasp on its BOM and how this product could be mass-produced. If the company also announces a price, I expect it to have done its homework before involving the public.

Letting this expectation continuously slide to allow yet-another media-spectacle of "Tesla announcing a sub-30.000 <whatever>" is quite a weakness in critical journalism (and thinking).

ilt• 2 years ago

This is mentioned right after, which changes the meaning of the words quoted by you.

Not with the Cybertruck.

rickdeckard4• 2 years ago

It doesn't change the meaning.

The fact that Tesla generally delivered on spec but not on price is exactly what I was commenting on. It's not a quality, it's still bad management.

Especially if you consider that they may have silently reduced spec in other areas to somehow meet their announced price, i.e. reducing material-quality, mounting components with adhesive, etc.

The fact that they didn't deliver on price and spec on the Cybertruck is actually proving the assumption that their product-announcements are not sufficiently grounded in reality.

nathannecro5• 2 years ago

I'll say this, I preordered both a Rivian and a Cybertruck when they announced and I purchased the Rivian because it was available roughly 2 years before the Cybertruck even started deliveries.

I've had some small teething problems with the truck but it has been the best vehicle I've ever driven. It works perfectly as a regular daily driver but I can load my SCUBA gear and tanks into the back, and go off-road, get a bunch of dives in, and be back to my truck that I've outfitted with fresh water for a shower, a fridge in the frunk for snacks and drinks, and a gear tunnel with dry and warm clothes.

Now that I can charge on the Supercharger network, the truck has just gotten even better since I no longer have to plan out my charging as carefully. The Rivian is built like a tank, it's handled everything I've thrown at it in stride, and the Rivian software folks have been making progress month after month.

I'm so glad that I bought a Rivian but really, I'm even more glad that I didn't buy a Cybertruck given the absolutely disastrous launch that its had. Just off the top of my head, I've heard of wheels falling off, trim falling off, tonneau cover nonfunctional and non removable, 20% less range than marketed, accelerator pedal falling off and sticking, PRNDL falling off, seats that creak and wiggle, poor offroading capabilities, red screen of death, FSD driving the truck into the wrong lanes, and I'm sure there are many other issues that I've not even heard about.

As a long time Tesla owner (I was an early adopter of the first gen Model S), I expected the overpromise and underdelivery of their products, but I'm pretty sure I'm never going back to Tesla if Rivian and other auto companies deliver better value and quality EVs.

masklinn2• 2 years ago

I'm sure there are many other issues that I've not even heard about.

The windshield wiper committing suicide is a common one.

nathannecro5• 2 years ago

Ah yes, I forgot about that. The windshield spontaneously cracking was also something I forgot to mention.

rickdeckard4• 2 years ago

I'm pretty sure I'm never going back to Tesla if Rivian and other auto companies deliver better value and quality EVs

Which is a very sober and reasonable statement. If other companies deliver better value and quality, the only reason to buy a Tesla would be brand-loyalty (which is not a good reason to compromise on value/quality)

nathannecro5• 2 years ago

As mentioned, I had a few teething issues with the Rivian (mostly car noise and a leaky AC) so I was able to try out some other EVs while the truck was in the shop. I'll say that companies like Hyundai, Ford, and Mercedes have really come a long way in building EVs and all three of those are at least as good as Tesla if not better.

In my area, I can lease an entry-level Mercedes EV (I forget what they're called) something like 20-30% cheaper than I can get a Model 3. The entry-level Mercedes is decidedly worse than the Model 3, but you can't beat the pricing for what is still a very solid car (with more space and better sound quality to boot).

grecy7• 2 years ago

poor offroading capabilities

That was true before the software update that enabled the lockers. YouTube channels like TFL did a before/after video and it’s actually pretty good now.

It has lockers and huge ground clearance after all. Of course it is hindered by its huge length compared to a wrangler, but of course it’s not in the same class. It does better than an f150 for example.

Also the stock tires are crap for real off-roading, and hardly anyone knows you need to air down.

(Disclaimer: never owned a Tesla, but I off road 4x4s around the world for a living)

nathannecro5• 2 years ago

I guess I made that statement partially looking directly at the Cybertruck's actual performance and partially looking at the Cybertruck relative to other offroading vehicles.

The reality of the situation for the Cybertruck is that it's a pretty heavy vehicle (with as you mention) not great stock tires -- but everyone knows that. The absolute biggest issue with it though is that the tie rods for all 4 wheels don't seem to be adequate -- especially if you're coming down pretty hard on a single corner. There are countless videos out there where you see Cybertrucks with floppy wheels -- especially out offroading.

Secondly, the Cybertruck has sub-par departure angles where the hitch just gets dragged along the ground. Combined with the realization that the hitch is only rated for 160lbs of vertical load (and it's structurally attached to the frame with aluminum -- which cracks, not bends). I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable doing much beyond just bumpy roads with the truck.

Finally, the breakover angle is just not good at all either. Ground clearance doesn't mean much when the wheelbase is so long. The Rivian sits at about 15 inches of clearance with stock wheels and the Cybertruck comes in about 5% shorter at 14.4 inches. Not only that, but the Cybertruck also has a 5% longer wheelbase than the Rivian and its suspension does not articulate as much -- especially at full lift.

Real world, this means that the Rivian's departure angle in the truck is 30 degrees (plus a little more). The Cybertruck sits at 24.7 degrees in its drivable mode (it goes up to ~27 degrees if you have it in the crawl "extract" mode). There's also a 3.5ish difference in breakover angle as well.

Relative to other "standard" offroading 4x4s like the Rubicon/Wrangler or Land Cruisers, the Rivian is at best average and the Cybertruck is decidedly worse. Couple that with the R1T being able to independently power each wheel, the Cybertruck is IMO more recreational than proper off-road.

I'm not here to gatekeep so I will point out the obvious and say that the Cybertruck is for sure, a better offroading vehicle compared to most recreational/luxury vehicles out there. I'm just not sure that I'd qualify it as anything better than "okay?".

ryandvm2• 2 years ago

Oof - doesn't bode well for Tesla. And that isn't even considering the "Tony Stark to Andrew Tate" brand transformation of the spokesman...

spicybbq• 2 years ago

Seems like Rivian has a great product, but it's unclear whether the company is going to make it. If someone believed that the company will ultimately succeed and achieve scale, they should buy stock. It's very cheap.

nathannecro5• 2 years ago

It's really unfortunate that Rivian hasn't scaled. To me, their struggles really show how difficult of an industry it is and how small mistakes can really ruin an otherwise solid showing.

Gotta give kudos to Elon for dragging Tesla through the same hurdles and coming out on top with a profitable vehicle.

toomuchtodo• 2 years ago

As a long time Tesla owner (I was an early adopter of the first gen Model S), I expected the overpromise and underdelivery of their products, but I'm pretty sure I'm never going back to Tesla if Rivian and other auto companies deliver better value and quality EVs.

Indeed, I own several Teslas and cancelled my Cybertruck reservation after seeing how bad the product was up close (and absolutely not worth what they were asking for it). I ordered an F150 Lightning instead.

mejutoco2• 2 years ago

The title here matches the original title of the article, but I have to say: what is with the comma between subject and predicate in a sentence?

Ex. Mary, eats a pie.

piva00• 2 years ago

The comma seems completely fine?

Your example is not the same construction, "Mary turns off the oven, eats a pie" is a more similar type of phrasal construction.

mejutoco2• 2 years ago

I somehow misread. No more commenting for me before coffee.

croisillon• 2 years ago

"Tesla delays [and] reduces": the comma is used as an "and" (common in American titles, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_splice)

worstspotgain2• 2 years ago

I used to think no production vehicle could ever be uglier than a PT Cruiser.

j4yav3• 2 years ago

The PT cruiser looks like a potato, and the Cybertruck looks like a potato slicer. It's a match made in heaven.

shiroiushi• 2 years ago

You're forgetting the Pontiac Aztek.

But yeah, this thing ranks right up there with the worst.

worstspotgain2• 2 years ago

I wonder if it's the same people who buy all three. The people who dress up for Halloween 364 days a year.

odiroot• 2 years ago

Fiat Multipla says hi.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Multipla

aitchnyu• 2 years ago

Cars which didnt upgrade from shinbone fracture profiles to hip fracture profiles have gone extinct and thats bad.

Kye• 2 years ago

It looks like a little car riding inside a bigger car.

rsynnott• 2 years ago

Sadly, the second version of this was far more boring, just looking like a fat hatchback.

I kind of liked the first-gen.

red-iron-pine2• 2 years ago

looks like the terrible car that Homer designed in The Simpsons

skavi• 2 years ago

Is anyone else experiencing repeated crashes when viewing this article via iOS Safari?

mlvljr• 2 years ago

Would happen with any browser, just stop driving for a minute if you have to read

postmeta• 2 years ago

Cybertruck steer-by-wire was really fun and interesting to try, some have FSD for test drives too, would really recommend giving it a try before hating so much: https://www.tesla.com/drive

floppiplopp• 2 years ago

tesla customer have again been musked.

Tesla delays Cybertruck's range extender, reduces its range

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