Dropped Cheetos Could Have Triggered Ecosystem Chaos in Largest US Cave Chamber

https://www.iflscience.com/dropped-cheetos-could-have-triggered-ecosystem-chaos-in-largest-us-cave-chamber-75874

by austinallegro • 2 years ago

58 31 2 years ago

iflscience.com

harperlee• 2 years ago

A whalefall of sorts.

liquidise• 2 years ago

Over 300 million people visit the national parks each year, generating nearly 70 million tons of trash.

What? Does this include waste the parks themselves generate in brochures and such?

I cannot fathom how each visitor to a national park generates an average of 467 pounds of trash.

bbor• 2 years ago

Great point! But yeah I think it does, given the source indeed uses “generates”:

https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/teaming-up-to-keep-park-was...

  bringing in and generating nearly 70 million tons of trash

God knows how they get to that number tho. Probably was a sum of all trash operations for all parks system-wide? That would include all the ranger’s trash from living there, along with any waste generated by maintenance, hospitality, and rescue activities. That makes a bit more sense if we consider that there are many national park service units (including national lakeshores, national battlegrounds, etc.), some of which presumably have a much lower ranger:visitor ratio than, say, Great Smoky Mountains NP. Like Gates of the Arctic NP!

Some activities are pretty wasteful (looking at you, mountaineers) and some people dump their RV trash in the little trash cans at the visitor center, but no way that puts a dent in 400lb/person, IMO.

oefrha• 2 years ago

The U.S. generates ~300 million tons of municipal solid waste every year.[1] 1/4 of that is generated in national parks? Not a believable figure.

[1] https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-...

nxobject• 2 years ago

Perhaps the NPS is exempt from those statistics as a federal agency – I imagine the EPA's oversight is different there (as it is for usual local and state agencies, which those stats seem to cover.)

rightbyte• 2 years ago

They have to include e.g. dirty earth from oil spill cleanups or something in the stats.

Thorrez• 2 years ago

Maybe they meant 70 million pounds of trash.

votepaunchy• 2 years ago

Now we’re down to ~4 oz. of trash per visitor, which also seems unbelievable.

mensetmanusman• 2 years ago

Every 4th visitor forgets to park properly and they excitedly watch their car fly off the side of the grand canyon.

pvaldes4• 2 years ago

Rangers spent 20 minutes removing it. Animals will eat the cheetos, mold will spread to the walls

Where it will be consumed by the mold eating cave inhabitants. Do they really think that cave ecosystems weren't prepared for a deer carcass? They had received external supplies of nutrients for millions of years.

Keeping caves clean is a good thing, but if people can't behave can be fined for it. In any case, regular cleaning teams should be included in the budget of the park as part of the management. Stop being cheap with nature.

Except for the aluminum and plastic bag, easily removable, this is a storm in a teacup. Would be relevant only when prehistoric art is present.

llamaimperative4• 2 years ago

Are you a caretaker of cave systems?

afavour• 2 years ago

Next best thing: a message board contributor.

pvaldes4• 2 years ago

I don't need to be a caretaker of cave systems to notice the manipulation in this article. Lying for a good cause is still lying, and in the end destroys any credibility.

Bullshit like for example saying that cave ecosystems could be destroyed because <huge improbable number> of trash has been discarded in the sum of <every> protected areas.

Sorry but, how much of these areas do have cave ecosystems? A cheetos bag does not have the same impact in a prairie than in a cave.

The article is leading the reader toward the assumption that caves are flooded with millions of tons of trash; but does not show any data to support that claim except that "the problem was solved in 20 minutes".

If we don't have a real value, we should do research and find a real estimate. Extrapolating from things unrelated to achieve our desired emotional response (based in fake data) is dishonest towards the public. And eventually they will discover the trick and will stop caring.

dooglius• 2 years ago

Why would you expect that a deer carcass would not alter the ecosystem?

dartos• 2 years ago

Not irreparably

salesmanbob• 2 years ago

Have you considered reaching out to tell them they're wrong and to not waste their time? I'm sure as cave caretakers and scientists they're busy doing other things that you could also correct them on.

valianteffort• 2 years ago

The scientific community is rife with pretentious know-it-all types. The type that draw conclusions before something is conclusive. Better not to take them seriously.

They recently built a cafe deep inside carlsbad caverns. If food was an issue, that seems a dumb idea.

rambojohnson• 2 years ago

do you also run a comic book store?

jncfhnb• 2 years ago

It wouldn’t actually make a difference right? Like it would be world changing for the life in the cave in the sense that it is short lived and fiercely competitive, but it would quickly return to the original balance, no?

giraffe_lady• 2 years ago

It would achieve a balance but not necessarily the original one. How long it would take I'm not competent to assess unlike apparently everyone else commenting here.

exabrial• 2 years ago

If you can't go out into nature without trashing it, just stay home.

When I got hike, I just started taking a trashbag. Was on a waterfall trail in Colorado three weeks ago; someone left a sock, another their _entire pants_ in a tree (we checked around before cleaning them up, and it was obvious they had been there awhile). How you forget your pants is beyond me.

And don't get me started on people's stupid dogs. Dog feces is pollution, and is non-natural in these environments. People will sometimes scoop, but then leave the bag. What part of that is acceptable?

sitzkrieg• 2 years ago

the transplants are trashing the front range and do not care

uptime• 2 years ago

I have come across the full dog poop bag phenomenon a lot lately on trails and sidewalks. A small group forms, as if there was a memo that someone else wants them or would be picking them up. It is baffling. I would guess that these are people who were not bagging their poop and were chided for that. And then these people took the command too literally, bagging but not carrying away.

morgango• 2 years ago

I think it is just leaving the bag for picking up on the way back. Not really that complicated.

Dropped Cheetos Could Have Triggered Ecosystem Chaos in Largest US Cave Chamber

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