The Legend of Holy Sword: An Immersive Experience for Concentration Enhancement

https://arxiv.org/abs/2408.16782

by PaulHoule • 2 years ago

139 66 2 years ago

arxiv.org

bigcat12345678• 2 years ago

bene gesserit vibe hit hard

Now there is a path forward to be able to focus on a single cell in my body. LoL

kherud• 2 years ago

That was my association as well! Dune even uses similar vocabulary. For example someone mentioned "pranayama" in this thread, which sounds a lot like Dune's "Prana-bindu". Really makes me wonder about Frank Herbert's experiences about all of this.

leblancfg• 2 years ago

OK that’s neat but boils down to “here’s a cool game”. I was expecting a double blind study that measures some concentration metric vs a placebo intervention.

moron4hire• 2 years ago

I'm sure they intend to do something like that, but unfortunately time/funding is probably getting in the way. Making an app like that is not exactly cheap. You need either the right combination of skills or a lot of trial an error, which is either high rate times short time, or low rate times long time. So they probably released this intermediate work to try to gin up some interest to get more funding.

Good luck to them. Never really worked out that way for me in my efforts.

cloudking• 2 years ago

https://automaton-media.com/en/news/20231117-23105/ summary with video

swayvil5• 2 years ago

I've gone a bit down the road of concentration enhancement (meditation). There are trippy depths and real magic. And it really isn't that hard. It just takes time and dedication.

gibbetsandcrows3• 2 years ago

What was your experience like, and what sort of meditation you were doing?

swayvil5• 2 years ago

Plain old concentration meditation with the feeling of breath in the tip of my nose as my object. (this guy calls it "shrinking" : https://fleen.org/fluffy_cloud/shrink/ )

As for the experience. Well, first it gets you high. Then it gets really easy. Then you encounter weird stuff and more weird stuff, vast and deep. And that's as far as I'll go with that line of conversation.

wslh3• 2 years ago

I wanted to share an unexpected experience I had during a yoga class, specifically a class that included pranayama practice, under the guidance of a particular teacher. This wasn’t something I sought out, and it hasn't repeated since, but it left a strong impression.

During the session, I distinctly felt what could be described as the "opening of the third eye." However, the sensation was much more mechanical than subtle, almost as if my forehead was literally opening up. It felt real, but strangely, it wasn’t part of the practice or anything the teacher mentioned. After the session, everything went back to normal; it was just this momentary experience during the practice.

I’ve never come across descriptions of it happening this way in any readings on yoga or meditation. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

helloplanets• 2 years ago

Meditation is potent and should be treated as such. The good and the bad, much like any intense experience in life. Something to be especially aware of if you're interested in more than just dipping your toes in there. So, not talking about the basic ten minute guided mindfulness meditation.

The meditation community (in the west) has a very weird relationship with the negative side-effects. We also have a poor structure to support any of the weirder effects, without just making the recipient of those just feel way more weird and/or crazy. Which is the result of it being uprooted from an entirely separate framework and brought over, sometimes without much care.

In more concrete terms, people have had bad psychotic breaks during/after meditation retreats, or just as a result of going in too deep, etc. You can read more if you are interested:

https://harpers.org/archive/2021/04/lost-in-thought-psycholo...

https://vivo.brown.edu/display/wbritton

This comes as a shock to some people, even if it's obvious that other age old traditions - such as consuming Ayahuasca - should be treated with the utmost respect when it comes to the good and the bad.

canjobear• 2 years ago

Seiken Densetsu!

underdeserver• 2 years ago

For those who don't know, "legend of the holy sword" in Japanese is Seiken Densetsu, which is a series of popular video games by Square.

Seiken Densetsu 1 was released in the US as Final Fantasy Adventure.

Seiken Densetsu 2 is Secret of Mana.

Seiken Densetsu 3 was fan-translated in the early 2000s and later released officially as Trials of Mana, with a 3D remake for the Switch.

sandspar• 2 years ago

In Harry Potter, it seems like the key difference between successful or unsuccessful spell casting is in one's ability to concentrate.

kfrzcode• 2 years ago

In esoteric muggle magick it is the same.

kragen• 2 years ago

also in programming and math. it's an important ingredient in everything difficult except maybe lateral thinking

rramadass13• 2 years ago

The triad of Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana is what you need for "Concentration". See Patanjala Ashtanga Yoga at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtanga_(eight_limbs_of_yoga)

One simple but effective technique is to practice the above three stages by focusing at a point where the eyebrows meet the bridge of the nose. Do this completely relaxed with eyes closed and adjusting the focal point slightly forwards/backwards until you feel a sudden relaxation/jolt (slight but distinct) within the body. Its like a physiological trick but once experienced you will know it and can then use it to calm down and concentrate whenever and wherever as needed.

musha68k• 2 years ago

Interesting, so you literally >focus< on the executive parts of your brain in order to focus.

rramadass13• 2 years ago

In a sense, Yes; it involves Proprioception (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception) and Body Maps/Peripheral Space (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41538392) and related biological/physiological mechanisms.

q7xvh97o2pDhNrh• 2 years ago

Forward/backward in which dimension? There's at least three or four to sort out.

rramadass13• 2 years ago

Nothing magical; just front and back of the midpoint between the eyebrows until you settle on a point where you get the sensation. That is why i called it a "physiological trick".

advael4• 2 years ago

Saggital plane I think

rablackburn• 2 years ago

Oh neat, I do exactly this and thought it was just another instance of neurodivergent self-soothing behaviour. Turns out I’m just practicing my yoga ;)

rramadass13• 2 years ago

Yoga is not something magical but merely a empirical discipline with an accompanying metaphysics developed over a long period of time within a cultural context. Tease out the essentials from the cultural context and you have a practical discipline relevant for everybody today.

For example, Patanjala Ashtanga Yoga gives an all-encompassing framework to learn to focus/concentrate and if needed, experience a distinct supra-normal mental state (i.e. Samadhi). But the last is not necessary and you could use the framework to do and feel better in the everyday activities of life.

Here is how to do it;

1) Yama - We are embedded in an environment which influences us. Thus we have to practice restraints w.r.t. the environment to settle on a equilibrium state where we can have some control over how we react to external factors.

2) Niyama - We are active living beings with certain essential everyday needs. These need to be automated away using personal discipline so that we don't have to think and waste precious mental energy on them.

3) Asana - Because "we" are housed in a material Body we need to take care of and maintain the body so that it is healthy, strong and free of diseases leaving us free to work on our mental aspects.

4) Pranayama - The Body and the Mind are linked through the Breath. Hence to control the Mind one needs to learn to control the Breath first.

The above are the four "external" aspects, the four "internal" aspects follow;

5) Pratyahara - In order to focus and concentrate on one thing we first need to "withdraw" our Mind from other things and this is the practice of such withdrawal.

6) Dharana - Now we focus on one thing; it will be momentary at first but with repeated practice becomes easier.

7) Dhyana - Now we hold our attention for long periods of time on one thing. This is commonly known as Concentration/Contemplation. For all normal everyday activities we can stop at this stage.

8) Samadhi - This is the state where the distinction between subject and object does not exist and the individual has "dissolved himself" (called "Laya" in Sanskrit). A good common example is when people laugh and cry (literally) with the protagonist when watching a emotional movie. The key here is to be completely permeated by the experience itself with no other thought/emotion/feeling (Classic example - Orgasm). In modern psychology this can be approximated by the "Flow State" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

As you can see, the framework given by Ashtanga Yoga is eminently practical.

noduerme• 2 years ago

I realize that this is ancient cultural knowledge, and what I'm going to say is very crude and sounds utterly stupid. But I stumbled upon a similar technique wherein I close my eyes and remember my best bowling game ever. That is, a moment which lasted 15 minutes that took place 20 years ago when my body and mind did exactly what I wanted in sync with each other, and performed almost as perfectly together as they ever have. Closing my eyes and re-living it for a few seconds gives me an endorphin rush and releases seratonin that I can feel elevating my mood almost immediately. I only honed in on this one experience in a bowling alley as my escape after years of trying to replicate various high feelings with drugs. Somehow, finding it has become a natural way to re-frame my mind in almost any situation. Although I'm afraid of over-using it, because the chemical effect is pretty powerful.

To anyone searching for something like this, I'd recommend thinking of a peak moment in your life - it could be something totally unexpected, like bowling (and listen: I'm not much of a bowler!) Just a moment when everything worked perfectly and you couldn't make a mistake. And try to re-live that moment behind your eyes.

Sounds totally cheesy and ridiculous, I know.

rramadass13• 2 years ago

You might find the book The Body Has a Mind of Its Own : How Body Maps in Your Brain Help You Do (Almost) Everything Better by Sandra Blakeslee and Matthew Blakeslee very relevant here.

wslh3• 2 years ago

If you go really mystic, there are infinite yogas, so not surprising that you found a different way.

danuker• 2 years ago

Bit of a tangent, but I recently learned of "quiet eye" and how it is studied to improve aiming in sports.

bitwize• 2 years ago

One time when I was playing Rez¹ my consciousness seemed to split. There was the me playing the game, and then there was the me observing the me playing, spectating my own gameplay. By the time I had reached that point, gameplay seemed almost automatic. The enemies seemed to practically fly into my reticle, to be shot down immediately upon appearing. I realized I was somehow blocking my conscious focus from commenting on how I'm playing and offering corrections, leaving my unconscious free to actually do the work of targeting and shooting, as well as my conscious mind free to sit back and enjoy the ride. It was an unprecedented experience of total concentration on a task.

A further mindblow occurred when I realized that this is a thematic element in the game. In the upper left corner of the screen is a "system log" that describes what you're doing and names the things you're shooting down, that can be said to represent the mind's "narrator". But you almost never look at it because you're more concerned with what's happening on the screen. Steering your attention to the log means you'll lose focus on the actual gameplay.

Rez is like that. It's almost a metacommentary on the experience of playing it, and experience in general, sometimes. Everyone should play it.

¹ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rez_(video_game)

bovermyer• 2 years ago

I tried this and it just made me anxious. I'm probably doing it wrong.

rramadass13• 2 years ago

It is very simple, don't overthink it. Go to a quiet place with no distractions, let go of everything mentally and physically, be totally relaxed, don't think of anything (i.e. Pratyahara) but just try to focus on a point within the blackness (i.e. Dharana) and hold your attention there (i.e. Dhyana) when you feel a distinct bodily sensation.

Try and do this before falling asleep in your bed at night and your quality of sleep will improve greatly. You can also do this just after you wake up in the morning in your bed (but before looking at your phone, talking to your spouse etc.) and you will feel more refreshed than normal.

Once you get the trick you can actually use a home blood pressure monitor and see the changes in physiological parameters yourself.

Handprint44693• 2 years ago

Any books you'd recommend for someone curious about this?

rramadass13• 2 years ago

Are you asking about only the techniques or the whole subject of Ashtanga Yoga and its applications to practical Psychology?

asynchronous• 2 years ago

Maybe I’m not seeing it but would be nice to have some metrics in this study to point to- maybe a control game which changes a fundamental part of the concentration mechanic.

kornork• 2 years ago

It's not mentioned in the abstract but there's a brain activity measuring device involved as well.

So this is neurofeedback. But is it any better than existing neurofeedback which already makes use of computer games?

woolion• 2 years ago

One interesting point to note is that Arthurian legend, in its popular retelling, tends to show Arthur as "the chosen one", which is why he was able to pull out the sword. The original stories tend to show that Arthur was worthy to become king because he understood he needed to apply the right amount of force, rather than trying to "overpower" it.

I don't think I would have understood the reference without having being told this recently; it is a trial that requires to be fully concentrated on sensing how the stone reacts to the moves.

stavros• 2 years ago

That's interesting, and makes for a reasonable analogy for what it's like to govern. Do you have any sources I could read?

shakna• 2 years ago

I'm not sure which part of Arthurian legend your mentioning as original here, because Arthurian legends are... A rather deep well with no real canon as such. In the oldest versions, there is no sword in the stone, for example [0].

Along that line, Lancelot, who everyone knows, was a self-insert fanfic at one point. [1]

[0] L'Estoire des Engles

[1] Lancelot, le Chevalier de la charrette

moffkalast• 2 years ago

Actuater

Someone wrote this article in a last night frenzy before some submission deadline didn't they? :P

thisisauserid• 2 years ago

King VRthur.

aulin• 2 years ago

A bit tangent but for me the biggest improvement in concentration I ever experienced came with nutritional ketosis. I can easily enter a flow state and work on the same problem for hours without any effort since I've been fat adapted. It's amazing.

The Legend of Holy Sword: An Immersive Experience for Concentration Enhancement

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