Cosy Computing

https://www.datagubbe.se/cosy/

by zdw • 2 years ago

74 24 2 years ago

anonzzzies3• 2 years ago

It is in the last part, but for me it is that I don't need to lookup or have to deal with what we decided is software dev in 2024. There are no libs: I write everything myself in asm (my preferred is z80 but I can do 68000 amiga stylez). Everything is in my head ; on my msx I write opcodes; not even an assembler needed! Wat is deployment? It already runs!

I guess that is indeed cosy and, for people who grew up with the horror that is npm and left-pad, not really understandable, but when they try, it is incredibly liberating.

I own most 70-80s systems (I mean brands, even vague east block, russian, hong kong ones; I miss a few but those are just too rare), they all work (I cheat; I can fix them, I do replace quite a lot of capacitors during the decades, but at least with these I can), and they are lovely.

Edit; I know I Can do the same thing on my linux machine; just use C and no libs, but for the reasons named in the last paragraph of the article, it doesn't relax me; I don't need more money, yet I cannot detach modern computers from productivity; it helps that with these 40 year old machines you cannot make money. So I do dream of a laptop running on an mcu with an eink screen that has 1 month of battery but no commercial power. And running common lisp at boot as that's all I need anyway. I am close to just forking over 10k to have one custom made, but still hope someone else will do it.

deafpolygon• 2 years ago

It is in the last part, but for me it is that I don't need to lookup or have to deal with what we decided is software dev in 2024

You still can. If you wanted to write DOS software and games, you can still write them. Nothing is stopping you.

I don't own much of the old hardware because:

- I don't have space

- I don't want to maintain them

But I like emulators and will use them when I can.

So I do dream of a laptop running on an mcu with an eink screen that has 1 month of battery but no commercial power.

Look into emulators that run on e-ink devices. Most run Android of some sort and can emulate systems of the yesteryear. You don't need to spend 10k.

anonzzzies3• 2 years ago

Yes, but no battery life. I run openmsx on a boox but it drains pretty fast. But yes, I see the point; I can pack one in a 3d printed case with keyboard and a stack of batteries I guess. I have a few toughbooks I don't use anymore; that has a nice enough case really for this. Just a disaster of a keyboard :)

AndrewOMartin• 2 years ago

This is a nice comment and speaks to the notion that every medium has its own characteristic feel even is not "better" by some metric (e.g. vinyl vs CDs, vs cassettes, vs live radio, vs mp3, etc.).

A similar feeling of immediacy without any intervening concerns is hacking away at a Processing [https://processing.org/] sketch. In some sense it's the complete opposite of retro computing, but it engenders similar experiences. Such as a programming novice typing in a few numbers and being amazed that they've immediately made something interactive and colorful, and temptingly close to being called a game.

thih9• 2 years ago

for people who grew up with the horror that is npm and left-pad

For those missing context: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Npm_left-pad_incident

jll29• 2 years ago

So I do dream of a laptop running on an mcu with an eink screen that has 1 month of battery but no commercial power. And running common lisp at boot as that's all I need anyway. I am close to just forking over 10k to have one custom made, but still hope someone else will do it.

I share that dream (and have written a few times about it in comments on HN). In case you find one, or go ahead with having one built, let me know. I might put in 10k as well.

Specs:

- low-energy CPU, no GPU

- e-Ink display b/w or gray

- very good keyboard (ThinkPad-type quality for intensive writing)

- battery life: 2-4 weeks

- size: A5 or between A5-A4

- 64 bit OS: Linux or BSD

- good text editor (Emacs, Sublime) with mail client (VM), GCC/Clang++

- weight: 700-900 g

- EDIT: icing on the cake: "no boot mode" that fires up a shell prompt in <2s, e.g. based on starting an OS instance that had a snapshot taken _after_ booting up, to give you the same feel of the Cosy Computing home computers of the 1980s. - because it's possible (hey, my washing machine and dishwasher don't need to boot either!).

rochav• 2 years ago

As someone who loves reading and uses e-readers a lot (physical books feel cooler though), the experience of typing with an e-ink display doesn't seem enjoyable, I imagine it would have quite the delas. Have you guys coded in e-ink and it is actually okay? (I want my intuition to be wrong about this so much, because that does sound appealing)

universa1• 2 years ago

Hmm... You might be able to build one out of a remarkable [1], as that runs linux, has support for external keyboard and might only be lacking in the battery life department, when actively used.

[1] remarkable.com

yjftsjthsd-h• 2 years ago

icing on the cake: "no boot mode" that fires up a shell prompt in <2s, e.g. based on starting an OS instance that had a snapshot taken _after_ booting up,

That might not be needed - if you're just booting from off to a shell (no GUI, no daemons), on known/static hardware, you can probably just... actually boot in <2s. Consider ex. https://jvns.ca/blog/2021/01/23/firecracker--start-a-vm-in-l... - I can't see where a VM is inherently doing anything real hardware can't.

eterps• 2 years ago

So I do dream of a laptop running on an mcu with an eink screen that has 1 month of battery but no commercial power. And running common lisp at boot as that's all I need anyway. I am close to just forking over 10k to have one custom made, but still hope someone else will do it.

Same, but with Project Oberon on bare metal.

CP/M would be a nice option too.

dansalvato• 2 years ago

I've spent most of my life as a hardcore tech enthusiast, always excited for the latest and greatest. But in this era of homogeneous Electron apps, and now LLMs, I can't find much to be enthusiastic about anymore.

Most of the novelty has evaporated since every device nowadays can do everything imaginable (and if not locally, then via cloud). On old computers, it's just cool to see different kinds of software and games running on it. It makes you want to explore the possibilities. People used to be enthusiastic about the cool stuff their computer could do.

For a while now, I've wanted to set up a retro computer as a "daily driver" of sorts. It feels like a lot of our everyday uses for technology have not changed much over the decades—communication, news, entertainment, writing, organization, etc. If I lean back and ask myself what I actually use a computer for (other than specific stuff for work), I find it kind of hard to answer the question, which likely means I'm wasting a lot of time doing things that aren't deliberate or meaningful.

I love retro computers (especially Amiga), and doing stuff on them will always fill me with enthusiasm.

nehal3m2• 2 years ago

I feel the same way. I'm pretty entrenched in the Apple ecosystem and even switching to new devices doesn't tickle my fancy anymore. When you buy a new iPhone, log in with your Apple account and let it restore an iCloud backup your device will look and feel the exact same. Talk about homogeneity. Sure, it's amazing tech and in a reliability and productivity sense it's the only way to go, but still, it feels... Boring.

Every once in a while I'll switch everything over to FOSS (laptop, phone) and dead simple devices (Casio watch, paper calendar). It's much more fun, maybe because of the jank Linux is still plagued by sometimes rather than in spite of it.

teddyh• 2 years ago

For a while now, I've wanted to set up a retro computer as a "daily driver" of sorts.

You can’t do that anymore. Most everything everybody does on a “computer” nowadays is all through a Google browser using effectively proprietary protocols. Yes, you could edit your own documents and organize your own information, but the second you want to involve someone else, you’re stuck. You can’t accept an invite from somebody else to a Google document, nor can you share your spreadsheet with somebody else. You can’t even participate in online Teams or Zoom meetings. People you talk to and want to collaborate with don’t know what files are.

tigerlily• 2 years ago

GP can always shun whatever technology it is other people want them to use. I think it's always an option to shun, and people could do this more often but don't realize they can.

boerseth• 2 years ago

Like you say, computers nowadays can do basically anything. It is then a funny feeling to take an old computer, one that was once abandoned over all the minor frustrations that surrounded it, and revisit it today, only to be filled with wonder and parent-like pride in what the cute little thing is still able to do. Even trivial things, like playing mp3s! Despite being older in time, this antique relic of the past has its place in a younger part of my mind, and so feels more childish and immature. And yet, look at it go!

nxobject• 2 years ago

There's another feature of cozy computing that I think the author misses: the computing devices are AC-only, and very much chained in place, so you associate settling down to use your computer with a good time!

That way you have to dedicate a nice place to use your computer... hell, even give it a comfortable seat with armchairs, a little decoration, place for coffee or snacks. My self-built PC tower in high school had that property – and I really do remember the cozy Friday night ritual of making a mug of ginger tea, and sitting down to fool around in Minecraft for the night.

Devices with built-in batteries, especially slimline ones with batteries that are (effectively) unreplaceable, don't have that quality. Those that turn on instantly, too, although it's a technical quality that older micros had and we lost for a bit.

JR1427• 2 years ago

Yes, I agree whole-heartedly!

When the nights start to get longer, I have an instinct to put on a comfy knitted jumper and settle down to a raspberry Pi project (or similar).

mrob• 2 years ago

While I agree with most of this, I wouldn't call ball mice "cosy". Ball mice were unreliable and cleaning the rollers was an annoying chore. Optical was a big upgrade, especially as it went mainstream with some exceptionally good mice (the Microsoft Intellimouse series). I certainly don't miss ball mice.

NikkiA• 2 years ago

I would agree, except that a bunch of very notable youtube streamers have made retrocomputing unaffordable by hoarding dozens of old systems, thus making retrocomputing no longer 'cosy' for most of us.

Mr_Minderbinder• 2 years ago

I don’t know how far up your own ass your head needs to be in order to write this some of this slop. If you showed this to someone in the 80s they would die laughing.

I pity those who've never experienced the excitement of flipping through a collection of floppy disks… I wish for everyone to, at some point, feel the sublime give and then resistance of a CRT's power button

Save it, they likely pity you in equal measure for they know excitement in activities that you (and I) are ignorant of or incapable of enjoying. Pray, do your parents or grandparents have a share in your pity on account of their not knowing that same “excitement”? I never knew that the mundane experience of turning on my old TV and PC monitor everyday would one day be considered worthy of passing down to future generations. This has to be one of the most ridiculous paragraphs I have read in a while.

Those were, after all, times when political correctness had yet to be invented

“Political correctness” has existed since politics has existed. Even the sort you are thinking of had already been invented by then.

It is easy to be “cosy” if you are disconnected from reality and responsibility. This applies to many other things besides computing. As for the other stuff I think it is mostly in your head. Do you honestly think a kid off the street these days would see it the way you do? If you had self awareness you might have considered that your comfort might be someone else’s nightmare. I know my grandmother always hated CRT televisions, which gave her headaches and nausea. Also I kept thinking that a lot of that stuff hasn’t changed much but you making it out like it has. I hear my hard-drive spin and click everyday and it gives me anxiety not comfort.

I can think of about a dozen better reasons why someone might want to investigate historical computing. I could write a blog post about it but instead I will write a monograph on the serene and incomparable pleasures of organising a deck of punch cards. What a childish, trivial and superficial view of computing.

Cosy Computing

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