Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week

https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/12/waymo-to-begin-testing-driverless-robotaxis-on-san-francisco-freeways/

by openopenopen • 2 years ago

81 114 2 years ago

techcrunch.com

8f2ab37a-ed6c• 2 years ago

About time, hope it goes well.

xnx3• 2 years ago

The gap between Waymo and all other competitors in the self-driving space continues to widen.

saddlerustle2• 2 years ago

AutoX and Pony.ai in China have been been offering rides to the public with no safety driver for much longer than Waymo

neom• 2 years ago

South Korea has some stuff going on too, but not longer than Waymo. http://www.smobi.ai/ - https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68823705

dyauspitr2• 2 years ago

With zero public releases/data on crash information.

AlotOfReading5• 2 years ago

Waymo has been doing public rides (2015) since before either company was founded (2016). Pony.ai also got their permit suspended twice in California for different safety-related reasons, so the comparison says more about the different regulatory environment in China than it does about their relative maturity.

aantix4• 2 years ago

Have you seen FSD 12.5.1.3?

EcommerceFlow• 2 years ago

He obviously hasn't. The tech community is in for quite a shock with Tesla robotaxi's come out in a year or so and blow out the competition. One factor not discussed often is how much smoother FSD is compared to all other self driving. Especially noticeable when going from FSD to the free AutoSteer or GM Supercruise.

cameldrv• 2 years ago

Yeah. Have you seen Waymo? Even with 12.5, you have to keep your eyes on the road, and at least once or twice a week, it’s going to do something that would likely cause an accident. If it does, Tesla will blame you for not paying attention.

In a Waymo, you sit in the back seat and scroll your phone and it gets you safely to your destination every time. These are not even remotely comparable products.

andrewmcwatters3• 2 years ago

Comma has given up on self-driving cars and they're downplaying it now.

nojvek• 2 years ago

Comma is phenomenal at highway driving. Better than Tesla.

They should keep on doing what they're doing. Make ~$1000 gadget that makes driving less of a chore. Doubtful they'll get to driverless in next 10 years.

There can be many players in the market at different offerings and price points. Comma is a sweet spot where they are handsomely profitable, don't need to raise another round and get incrementally better.

Waymo has unlimited money from Google. Cruise, Zoox, e.t.c will have to face reckoning at some point.

It was smart of Uber to get out of self-driving car billion dollar money burning pit. They can always enter the race again. They have market size advantage.

TulliusCicero• 2 years ago

For context, they announced that they were starting freeway testing with employee passengers in Phoenix back in January.

someonehere• 2 years ago

I continue to use them instead of Lyft or Uber. Same price practically for me when I commute around SF. I love it.

yieldcrv5• 2 years ago

Why, if its not cheaper, what is the value add (if you’re not female as another commenter pointed out)

I routinely have as little interaction with the driver as I want

smus• 2 years ago

You get to be alone during the ride

panarky• 2 years ago

1.) Waymos are safer than human-driven rideshare vehicles

2.) The vehicles are standardized, comfortable and clean

3.) You can play your own music or none at all, roll down the windows or leave them up, while an Uber driver's preferences might not match your own

tomblomfield3• 2 years ago

My Ubers often smell very strongly of the food the driver has been eating.

The driver is often on a call for the entire journey, which is annoying.

It’s often much colder or warmer than I’d ideally like.

An extreme case, but I once had a driver stop a ride, jump out of the car and pull the driver out of the car in front. They proceeded to have a fist fight. The other guy had honked at him for blocking the road or something.

I’d much prefer a computer to drive me around.

SoftTalker2• 2 years ago

Why do they use Jaguars? Seems an unnecessary expense.

soramimo2• 2 years ago

They're spending a lot on the sensors anyway, so they might as well invest in a super nice experience all around to make it worthwhile.

erikaww• 2 years ago

Overcoming stigma perhaps? Making it seem bougier

dyauspitr2• 2 years ago

Minimal markup compared to the equipment already on there.

striking• 2 years ago

They got a good deal on EV Jags that weren't selling.

jeffbee• 2 years ago

It's because the car is contract-manufactured by Magna and they came to a convenient agreement to get thousands of white cars with extra holes.

seanmcdirmid• 2 years ago

Haven’t jaguars always been a mixed bag? Kind of low quality luxury, so I can imagine them getting some kind of deal. The irony is that jaguar used to be know for its really bad electrical wiring back in the 70s.

leesec3• 2 years ago

They won't soon, the I-Pace is stopping production

tomblomfield3• 2 years ago

I’m a big Waymo fan. Some of my thoughts;

Waymos are one of the first things that my visitors to SF want to try. It feels like living in a science-fiction future.

The ride and navigation feels very smooth - after the novelty of having no driver in the front seat wears off, you become accustomed to the experience surprisingly quickly. In comparison, I found the Cruise driving experience pretty uncomfortable and stress-inducing.

The app and software inside the vehicle is really well-designed. Which is unusual for a google consumer product!

And my female friends, in particular, far prefer Waymo to Uber or Lyft because they don’t have to engage with a creepy driver trying to hit on them.

I, for one, welcome our new self-driving overlords.

firloop• 2 years ago

As I've mentioned on another thread, I just wish Waymo drove faster. They often don't keep up with the pace of traffic.

tomblomfield3• 2 years ago

Yeah I think you have to change the traffic laws for that to happen.

AFAIK, they strictly follow the speed limit, which feels too slow when everyone else is speeding.

callalex• 2 years ago

Maybe it is the traffic that is wrong? Vehicle-induced injury and death is still a huge issue, and marginal speed increases make no difference to overall trip times.

andrewmcwatters3• 2 years ago

No thanks. I want self-driving cars to obey traffic laws. It's bad enough people are incompetent.

jacobjjacob3• 2 years ago

One of the best things about Waymo vs Uber and Lyft is that they drive smooth and comfortable, they aren’t zooming around between every stoplight and making me carsick.

etaioinshrdlu• 2 years ago

Expecting this to go well generally because freeways are pretty much always easier to self-drive than city streets!

SECProto• 2 years ago

Freeways are much, much less forgiving of abrupt speed changes and braking, which is something waymo (used to) have quite an issue with. Moving to freeways shows they are confident that won't be an ongoing issue.

SoftTalker2• 2 years ago

Yes I was driving on a freeway last week and traffic went from 80mph to dead stop about as fast as I could stand on the brakes. I didn't hit the car in front of me with only a few feet to spare, and fortunately the driver behind me was also paying attention. The jam eventually cleared, and there was absolutely no indication of what caused it.

greenthrow• 2 years ago

Like many people, you are focusing too much on the easy case and neglecting the many, many edge cases.

xnx3• 2 years ago

I thought this as well, but I think it emerged in an Waymo interview that any weird thing that can happen on city street can also happen on a freeway and the reaction time is lower and the consequences higher on a freeway.

AlotOfReading5• 2 years ago

Freeways have some of the same challenges as streets, but not all of them. Treating the environment as if anything can happen at any time is just an "abundance of caution" thing. To use a real example, you don't get people walking up and throwing an egg at the side of your vehicle on controlled access freeways.

sjducb• 2 years ago

Emergency braking is much harder at freeway speeds.

At 35mph you can have something (radar/cameras) look a few meters ahead, then if there is a stationary obstacle you slam on the brakes.

At 60 that doesn’t work because braking distances are much longer. There might be an obstacle directly ahead of you on the pavement, but you won’t hit it because the car will turn with the road. This means that your emergency braking system needs to be aware of the steering, the road layout, and the expected route.

gniv• 2 years ago

Whenever I drive on highways in heavy rain I wonder how a self-driving car would behave. Virtually all human drivers drive unsafely in these conditions by following too closely. Would a Waymo keep the distance? Seems difficult to do in heavy traffic. The alternative I guess is to drive very slowly.

Sad90sNerd4• 2 years ago

I don't understand why people are so eager to give up autonomy. I doubt the software is certified in any meaningful way (see DO-178B), the algorithms are unknown, and the NHTSA sits on its hands whenever these vehicles have accidents.

Here is a litmus test: would you allow Waymo to drive schoolbuses with your children? I know I certainly will never allow my family or myself to get into a metal box going 80 mph without a driver.

gosub100• 2 years ago

think of the children!

Sad90sNerd4• 2 years ago

think of yourself! the point of the analogy is to replace yourself (which you might not regard if you are a risk taker) with someone you care about.

timmg• 2 years ago

Aren’t many/most airline flights auto-landed? (Certainly autopiloted.)

Does that bother you?

id00• 2 years ago

They also have two highly trained proffessionals ready to take control and tight SoPs for everything.

bumby• 2 years ago

Avionics software has a much more stringent and regulated software process (and pilots still there just in case). Are you advocating the same for cars?

Sad90sNerd4• 2 years ago

It does actually, my father was a pilot for Delta and he saw the automation come thru and there are horror stories there too.

On top of this, the software quality is certified, built over decades, and continuously tested on each plane regularly - and of course the pilots are still there ; )

bigyikes• 2 years ago

Show me the statistics. If there is data which shows that autonomous vehicles are significantly safer than than the 90th percentile driver, then I absolutely will put my children in it. In fact, it might be irresponsible for me not to.

School buses are an interesting case because they drive fixed routes, so you can imagine some intense mapping and route planning process which makes them even safer than a normal autonomous vehicle. They could also afford to have a larger number of higher quality sensors.

antli35• 2 years ago

Assuming the children are still supervised by an adult, I don't see the issue. As a rider, Waymo generally feels safer than a human driver.

tanseydavid2• 2 years ago

> As a rider, Waymo generally feels safer than a human driver.

This was my experience too.

Way more smooth and smart about its SF driving than for instance, my elderly parents. It manages to be assertive without being aggressive.

rufus_foreman• 2 years ago

One of the last times I took a taxi, the taxi driver explained at length how he worked extra shifts so he could afford to buy meth which he would take in order to work more shifts which allowed him to buy even more meth which he would take in order to work more shifts etc.

I won't be the first in line to take Waymo on a freeway but at some point the results will speak for themselves.

Sad90sNerd4• 2 years ago

This is a good point. Life is full of risks and challenges, but I guess in my case I choose to trust in humanity in cases like these... god knows Ive seen enough production software in my life to be skeptical for two.

I won't be the first in line to take Waymo on a freeway but at some point the results will speak for themselves.

Indeed - lets hope we do get to actually see the numbers in due time.

tracerbulletx• 2 years ago

Does your family ride roller coasters, is that not giving up your autonomy? Waymo has done enough rides to have statistically significant risk data, and they are very safe and SF strikes me as hard a city to drive in as almost anywhere with all the rain fog pedestrians traffic, and weird routes and elevation changes.

xnx3• 2 years ago

Here is a litmus test: would you allow Waymo to drive schoolbuses with your children?

Waymo's obey all traffic laws and never drive tired, drunk, or distracted.

extragood• 2 years ago

I had a Lyft driver who nodded off several times during a ride to the point we had him leave us at the nearest corner as soon as it was safe. It was genuinely scary.

I messaged Lyft and they really didn't seem to take it seriously or care. They of course worded it in a way to avoid any potential legal problems, and I doubt anything came of it. That driver should not be on the road.

There have been several other less notable incidents where I was worried for my safety.

I'm here for the robotaxis

AlotOfReading5• 2 years ago

Automotive has a similar standard called ISO 26262. ISO-26262-6 is closest to DO-178B, though ISO-21448 is also highly relevant. Both are widely used throughout the industry, including Waymo. The norm in the US is self-certification. European homologation generally requires third party certification, and Waymo is almost certainly in that process right now, as part of their discussions with European regulators.

standardUser• 2 years ago

would you allow Waymo to drive schoolbuses with your children? I

Yes, obviously. Humans are provably more dangerous.

dventimi2• 2 years ago

I wish they would test going back to point-to-point pick-ups and drop-offs. I can easily see reasons to move to a designated pick-up and drop-off location model, but I feel it weakens the value proposition for people with mobility issues if they have to walk a few blocks.

crazygringo2• 2 years ago

I don't think that's up to Waymo, it's a legal thing mostly. The city has to allow that.

The funny thing about self-driving cars is that they're designed to obey laws to the letter, which real drivers never do. I think we're going to see a lot of laws necessarily getting updated to allow real-life driving behavior, such as double-parking during pickup and dropoff.

dventimi2• 2 years ago

I don't think that's up to Waymo, it's a legal thing mostly. The city has to allow that.

Did the SFPUC make a change to disallow that then, because point-to-point is how Waymo worked in SF as recently as a month or so ago? Perhaps they did, as a condition of allowing expansion.

matthewfelgate• 2 years ago

This is great news. I expect this will open up many more routes. And hopefully more profit.

jacobjjacob3• 2 years ago

I don’t understand how Tesla is continuing to ride so high on a borderline-vaporware robotaxi when Waymo is so far ahead.

KoolKat232• 2 years ago

It's not a zero sum game.

jacobjjacob3• 2 years ago

No, but I don’t think its clear that Tesla deserves its valuation at its current rate. They aren’t demonstrating any competitive advantage or particular skill in the space vs Waymo

blackeyeblitzar2• 2 years ago

They’re solving different problems. Waymo works in only some areas and requires all sorts of hardware. Tesla FSD is trying to do something more generalized.

imtringued• 2 years ago

I don't know what you are talking about. Tesla FSD is trying to do exactly the same thing, but they are struggling to do get it to work at all.

mensetmanusman2• 2 years ago

Hmm, buddy with a new Model Y in the Midwest has driven less than 5 miles while putting in over 1500 miles.

Waymo doesn’t exist here.

thelastparadise• 2 years ago

Are you saying the robot drive him 1495mi?

leesec3• 2 years ago

I'm happy for Waymo and hope they continue to expand. I do expect Tesla to still win out on "robotaxis" in the nearish term, e.g. I expect them to have given way way more rides than Waymo by say 2030

typon3• 2 years ago

Tesla has yet to demonstrate autonomous driving capability. A human ready to intervene in long tail scenarios (which is the hard part of the problem) does not constitute autonomous capability, no matter what the marketing material says.

JumpCrisscross2• 2 years ago

Tesla has yet to demonstrate autonomous driving capability

I'm betting on Waymo, too, but Tesla has chutzpah in a way Google and GM do not. That might permit them to take more risks (and incur more costs on the public) earlier.

In the end, avoiding a monopoly is always good.

leesec3• 2 years ago

they have demonstrated autonomous driving capability. the main difference between them and Waymo is miles per intervention, of which Tesla is about 10x behind where Waymo was when they started giving rides. but soon they will be equal and Tesla will have millions more cars and built out service centers ready to activate

Moon_Y• 2 years ago

Waymo's continuous advancement and expansion in the field of autonomous driving technology. The plan to test fully autonomous vehicles without human safety drivers on freeways in the San Francisco Bay Area is a significant milestone. By having employees as the first testers, Waymo demonstrates confidence in its system.

Waymo to begin testing on San Francisco freeways this week

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