New Linux Laptops from ZaReason

by imperialWicket • 14 years ago

66 86 14 years ago

Successors to the Verix 2.5 and the almost-a-desktop Chimera laptop: the Mir 730 and Verix 530.

Both available with up to i7-3920XM and 32GB RAM, and a price tag well under the new MBPs.

As successors to the Verix 2.5 and the damn-near-a-desktop Chimera, the Verix 530 and Mir 730 updates are both available with up to i7-3920XM (2.9Ghz) and can be configured with up to 32GB of RAM. They come in a lot cheaper than those new MBPs, too (but retina displays are nice).

I haven't used either, but I see good things about ZaReason, and I have been a little disappointed in my System76 Desktop (though I did heavily customize).

aiscott2• 14 years ago

  They come in a lot cheaper than those new MBPs, too

That is simply not true.

Configured approximately the same as the cheaper Retina MBP, the verix cost $200 more than the retina macbook pros.

I say approximately because the mbp has 1600MHz ram vs 1333 in the verix, but I had to choose a 300GB SSD in the verix vs 256 in the mbp. As well, the verix option was for a 2.2GHz vs 2.3GHz of the MBP.

That was the cheaper MBP. Configuring the verix to match the costlier Retina MBP puts the Verix at $500 more.

imperialWicket5• 14 years ago

Good point, thanks for the correction.

I neglected to consider the flash storage costs in my initial glances. If you avoid a large flash drive (I usually run something like a 40GB ssd and a 256GB 7200RPM paired), the pricing leans towards the Verix, but not by much - and you aren't getting the same flash storage.

Umox• 14 years ago

For me, Samsung's Chromebook still makes the best linux laptop. Great form factor, battery life, and screen.

joshu• 14 years ago

is it easy to get, say, ubuntu on them?

imperialWicket5• 14 years ago

There are still a lot of hoops to jump through for handling development on a Chromebook. That said, for a browser and general non-development machine - I agree that the newer Chromebooks have a lot to offer.

veemjeem2• 14 years ago

So you like slow machines? I gave up using mine and sold it... it's nice that it was cheap, but I feel like I can't do anything on it other than vim. I prefer only carrying around one laptop, so I'd rather get the laptop that can do everything.

mtgx• 14 years ago

I don't know about US, but in other countries there are so many laptops that come "Windows-free" (and save you ~$150). Unfortunately most of them come with the completely useless FreeDos instead of a usable Linux distro. I really don't get that at all. What's stopping them from using Linux instead of FreeDos?

tikhonj• 14 years ago

I've never seen that in the US. All the laptops I've ever seen for sale in person (rather than online) either came with some version of Windows or Mac OS. So we not only lack Linux here, we lack anything outside of Apple and Microsoft.

FreeDos seems rather specialized and would not suit a casual consumer at all. Perhaps those laptops just have a different target market? I really can't imagine anybody but a hobbyist actually wanting to buy that. Also, perhaps people just buy those laptops to install Windows in some questionably legal way?

dagw• 14 years ago

The FreeDos thing has something to do with some obscure rules about having to sell computers with an OS. No is expected to actually use FreeDos, and in fact the reason they use FreeDos rather than, say, Ubuntu, is to make sure no one does run it, and thus not having to offer support.

r00fus• 14 years ago

Likely Microsoft strong-arming. Some unspoken (because formal threats are anti-trust-bait) threats about "sell linux and your per-unit licensing costs will skyrocket".

Zak• 14 years ago

Most people who actively want Linux are content to install it themselves. They don't pre-install Linux because nobody really cares, and they don't want to deal with supporting it. They ship with FreeDOS in many cases because they have an OEM agreement with MS that forbids shipping computers with no OS.

duskwuff• 14 years ago

Cynical view: Preinstalling Linux would create expectations that all their hardware have readily available, working, non-buggy Linux drivers. Preinstalling FreeDOS sets up no such expectations (especially since basically everyone will blow it away immediately).

DaNmarner• 14 years ago

Their tag line is Linux Laptop that "just works". What does that imply about Linux? What's even sadder is that the implication is not even true. Linux these days not only "just works", but has more functionality out of the box than a stock Windows machine.

mbell• 14 years ago

> Linux these days not only "just works"

1) Try to make it sleep. (and wake up correctly)

2) Try to make it hibernate. (and wake up correctly)

3) Try to rotate a second screen into portrait mode while maintaining vsync and compositing. (choose any GPU for this, they all fail)

When you can do those 3 things reliably without fumbling around, breaking between upgrades, or even just do them (3 especially), I'll happily switch back to linux as a primary OS and say that it just works.

vasco• 14 years ago

Also, make proper use of graphics switching. I live with intel integrated graphics and won't even bother to try and switch to my ati because after about two weeks of searching forums when I got the laptop, I just gave up. This means, among other things, that I don't get to have webGL.

Still, Linux all the way since everything else is awesome!

antihero• 14 years ago

Sure, all you have to do is type `sudo vim /etc/acpid/handle.sh` and learn basic shell scripting...

ashleyblackmore2• 14 years ago

In my experience, Linux hibernation problems are down to not allocating enough swap space. I don't know if Ubuntu Precise makes a large enough swap file on the default installation - I always go the manual route (fumbling around), since I always have had hibernation problems otherwise.

pyre3• 14 years ago

I've had 1 & 2 work reliably for a while on laptops under Linux, but this tends to vary from model to model, unfortunately. I've been able to get 3 to work on my work setups under Mac Mini running Ubuntu and a POS Dell desktop running Ubuntu (though the Dell had obscure USB issues related to the motherboard chipset that were apparently worked around w/ the Windows driver, but not in Linux... Basically the hardware was crap so they fixed it in post^Wsoftware). Both were NVidia chipsets, IIRC.

doktrin2• 14 years ago

I respectfully disagree. It may "just work" on thoroughly tested hardware configurations, however as a blanket statement that is simply not true.

Anecdotal illustration : I'm writing this from a machine running Xubuntu because of a relatively obscure Unity bug wherein the X server fails sporadically while, say, loading a text file. This most likely is a compatibility issue relating to my graphics card.

TLDR; I'm a fan, but it doesn't "just work".

pnathan2• 14 years ago

To me, it's a very attractive idea: that someone has gone through the work to ensure a working combination of hardware for Linux. That's not trivial when you start getting into peripherals.

In my ideal world, they'd maintain a custom set of drivers that could be updated on Arch, Gentoo, or a Debian variant.

I'd buy it, keep it updated, and never have to tweak. Like my desktops.

rikf• 14 years ago

Think is exactly why macbooks are so popular. I think if a laptop manufacturer spent some (a-lot?) of effort on hardware design to compete with Apple then there would be huge demand from developers. As a developer now I have a laptop choice of

a) Horrible design with linux installed.

b) Beautiful design with a BSD like os installed.

It really is a no brainer. Even Linus uses a MBA I wonder when hardware manufacturers will start to realise that people actually care about owning beautiful things.

imperialWicket5• 14 years ago

It's definitely an aesthetic niche - but you can easily get a Thinkpad with Linux pre-installed, and quite a few people like the design/functionality of Thinkpads.

I think your choices are more 'Utilitarian/Functional design' vs. 'Beautiful design'. Admittedly, Utility/Function designs are often ugly.

Another side to the coin is that I enjoy the look and feel of Apple keyboards - but I can't stand working without home/end/delete keys.

KirinDave9• 14 years ago

Lenovo is not a good vendor for linux laptops. Unless you get a behemoth plug-to-plug W520, you have to accept at least one of the following major flaws:

1. Unsupported dual-mode graphics card.

2. Inability to use multiple monitors.

3. Some ports being unusuable.

4. Audio glitches.

5. Hand patching required to keep your laptop stable.

6. Poor support for X11 even with simple Intel integrated graphics.

And in all cases you will simply get atrocious battery life compared to the battery life available from the same system via windows.

People will tell you, "Oh I don't have a problem with my T61 or my T520," but their definition of "no trouble" is typically so riddled with the phrase, "Oh that doesn't work so I don't do it" that most laptops are reduced to underpowered desktops or doorstops.

Currently, there are no competitively priced linux laptops. This stems from a mix of vendor apathy and poor laptop support on Linux. If you would like to build a linux experience comparable to a mac osx or windows laptop with free software, it is currently either so expensive (Lenovo W520) or so difficult (T520) that it's almost certainly not worth your time.

You're better off using a competent VM solution to run Linux under Mac OS X and be able to enjoy a fully spectrum of modern hardware and battery life while still getting to use Linux (presumably for your development).

Note: And I sort of promised myself I wouldn't post here anymore, but on this one issue I hope this is the warning to someone that I personally never got. Don't try and make a linux laptop. It is a waste of your time and money.

doktrin2• 14 years ago

I agree. I'm in the market for a new notebook, however I strongly dislike the design of these machines.

This isn't to say that all non-Apple products have horrible aesthetics. Samsung stands out to me as a PC manufacturer that makes cool PC laptops. That said, I haven't worked with one so I have no way to evaluate the keyboard and general functionality.

However, the aesthetic look of the notebooks offered here is enough to put me off a purchase entirely - which is unfortunate.

LinXitoW• 14 years ago

Lenovo Thinkpads have very dedicated fans that have created drivers for almost everything. Installing Ubuntu 12.04 on my TP T61, there was zero configuration or hacking around needed. Every last wierd, unique or proprietary feature worked out of the box.

That being said, your point still stands. Official support is a lot better than unofficial support.

ginko4• 14 years ago

The new Thinkpads are a huge step backwards however. Lenovo screwed one of the defining qualities of the Thinkpad line by replacing the high-quality keyboards with chiclet island keys that also have a row of keys less than previously.

They also switched from 4:3 to 16:10 and now to 16:9 displays. The only resolution you can get the X-series thinkpads in is 1366x768. At least you can get 1600x900 displays for the T-series. (Which Lenovo ironically calls HD+)

It's almost like Lenovo WANTS me to switch to Apple.

tdavis• 14 years ago

I wonder what I'm doing wrong, then. Almost nothing on my T420 worked OOB. I've written custom acpi event scripts for handling docking, monitor switching, etc. Forget about the Function keys... (okay, that last part may be xmonad-related)

ineedtosleep• 14 years ago

> ...will start to realise that people actually care about owning beautiful things.

Thanks for speaking for _everyone_, but no. It's just most people are really superficial. The end.

Hardware manufacturers need to be as superficial in order to compete with Apple, however, part of me thinks that it will just turn consumer computing into a boring homogeneous set of devices across all manufacturers.

2muchcoffeeman• 14 years ago

'superficial' is not the right word for what Apple does.

An Apple machine is really very utilitarian and simple. It's a box with rounded corners and tapered edges. Pop off the screws and the case itself provides the structure for the machine. No extra structural support. The bulk of the material is also recyclable.

If you look at other computers, especially before the brushed aluminium trend, it was everyone else that had fancy sculpting on their enclosures, the keyboards, fancy personalisations. Just look at the machines linked. And they all needed extra stuff on the inside to provide a skeleton.

Apple machines certainly look good (why do we think grey boxes with round corners and tapered edges look good?), but they have also thought about manufacturing, engineering, materials, disposal etc ...

ImprovedSilence• 14 years ago

'part of me thinks that it will just turn consumer computing into a boring homogeneous set of devices across all manufacturers.'

Isn't that where the PC world is now?

pnathan2• 14 years ago

When you say design, do you mean surface appearance?

Or do you mean quality of engineering and thought put into making the machine? Those are two different things.

pyre3• 14 years ago

Industrial design covers both the appearance and the utilitarian aspects, IIRC. What Apple does is usually qualified as industrial design. That's not to say that they are perfect, but there is greater attention to detail (and not just visible detail) than other manufacturers.

esolyt• 14 years ago

Actually, Linus doesn't use a MBA because it is beautiful. He uses it because it is thin, light and portable.

goatslacker• 14 years ago

When it comes to a developer laptop I can really care less about design, slimness, even weight.

The most important things for me are

    A matte screen
    Excellent keyboard
    Large resolution for large amount of screen real estate
    SSD
    Good CPU & RAM
    And built solid/well

That being said it's really difficult to find that sort of combination in anything other than a Mac

BryanB55• 14 years ago

agreed. I thought this article was a joke or something in response to the new apple products. Looking at their website design, never mind product design just hurts my eyes now.

fratis• 14 years ago

These may be functional and fully Linux-compatible and whatever, but the key for me is this: does its trackpad compare to that of the MacBook Pro?

Oh, it doesn't? You mean I'll have to carry around an external mouse to compensate for the lackluster trackpad? You mean one of the two ways I interact with my computer is clunky at best and non-functional at worst compared to the best one on the market?

Sorry. No dice.

electrograv• 14 years ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one perplexed by the utterly astoundingly bad trackpad drivers on literally every platform but OSX. I just don't get it. How can so many people working on trackpad software produce such sub-par junk, while Apple's is literally competitive to (if not better than in some cases) a desktop mouse.

glesica3• 14 years ago

I don't know about Windows folks, but as a Linux user I rarely touch the mouse except while using a web browser, and point-and-click is all I need there. In fact my Thinkpad has a convenient middle mouse button just above the track pad that's super-convenient for opening links in a new tab.

danbmil99• 14 years ago

Just came to say, Earl at ZaReason is great, they always treated me with respect and went the extra mile.

Subu_S• 14 years ago

I don't know if it is just me or their laptops look mondo ugly - may be they just need a better website.

The world is moving towards polished aluminum etc. while we see these clunky models - I really hope they put more thought into making the laptops more aesthetic.

old-gregg• 14 years ago

> The world is moving towards polished aluminum etc.

I sure hope it isn't. The future cannot possibly be so grim and cold to touch.

It's funny how pre-conditioned some commenters are to love shiny&sparkly things. Many complained about "ugly" but nobody noticed the poorly positioned cheap touchpads, cheap glossy LCDs, flimsy lid hinges, excessive weight, you know... stuff that actually matters. Of all things missing you're only asking for "more aesthetic"? :)

comex• 14 years ago

"everyone should have a laptop this advanced"

Now where have I heard that sentence before?

narrator• 14 years ago

I have a Sony Vaio Core II Duo laptop. I bought it 2 or 3 years ago. The thing runs Linux great. I don't know why all the hardware works including suspend/resume. Maybe it's just old enough that the Linux community finally got around to supporting everything on it. It's a Sony too, so it has adequate design. Those Thinkpads are ugly.

isalmon• 14 years ago

I was under impression that laptop without Windows/MacOS on it should cost less. Apparently it's not the case here. I don't really see any competitive advantage vs. Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc.

protomyth2• 14 years ago

Seriously, is there a patent on centering the trackpad? Center the trackpad, center the keyboard, and do not put a numeric keypad on unless you have found a way for me to type while still looking straight at the display.

arnoooooo2• 14 years ago

It looks like they have aligned it with the home keys, which seems rather sensible.

protomyth2• 14 years ago

Which means the home keys are out of position. I want to sit dead center of the screen, not at an angle.

codex• 14 years ago

This is just an ad for some run of the mill laptops.

arnoooooo2• 14 years ago

With open hardware and amazing customer support.

New Linux Laptops from ZaReason

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