Alan Turing died 70 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

by marvinborner • 2 years ago

103 136 2 years ago

en.wikipedia.org

Interesting to note that the Justice Minister Lord McNally didn't consider a pardon appropriate, but the Queen eventually pardoned Turing after an outpouring of public support (and with the advice of the Government) [0]. (Turing was convicted for committing homosexual acts. Based on my cursory reading it seems like it was one of the reasons why he likely committed suicide. It's a tragic story of a great man, whom we all owe our gratitude.)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#Government_apology...

ndsipa_pomu2• 2 years ago

It's a classic example of where legality and morality aren't aligned

croes4• 2 years ago

Back then it was perfectly aligned.

Homosexuality was seen as a perversion in the public eye.

notRobot2• 2 years ago

It's more a case of mainstream morality not aligning with ethics.

croes4• 2 years ago

Not simply convicted

His probation would be conditional on his agreement to undergo hormonal physical changes designed to reduce libido, known as "chemical castration".

advael6• 2 years ago

Yea apparently it was so important to the government of Britain to dictate which consenting adults can fuck each other that they would force hormones and essentially permanent probation on a literal world-changing scientist and undeniable war hero over it

I will never recognize a government's right to tell adults what they can do with their own bodies and other consenting adults, and it's insane that there are zero governments in the entire world that can uphold the basic principle of full bodily autonomy. Death to tyrants

qsort• 2 years ago

The reasoning is interesting though. I don't necessarily agree with it but it's not "lmao gay".

A posthumous pardon was not considered appropriate as Alan Turing was properly convicted of what at the time was a criminal offence. He would have known that his offence was against the law and that he would be prosecuted. It is tragic that Alan Turing was convicted of an offence that now seems both cruel and absurd—particularly poignant given his outstanding contribution to the war effort. However, the law at the time required a prosecution and, as such, long-standing policy has been to accept that such convictions took place and, rather than trying to alter the historical context and to put right what cannot be put right, ensure instead that we never again return to those times.[0]

--- [0] https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201212/ldhansrd/text...

defrost3• 2 years ago

He would have known that his offence was against the law and that he would be prosecuted.

That specific bit of reasoning is very likely wrong.

The circumstances of Turings investigation and arrest started with Turing going to the police to report that had been robbed by a person considered to be a rent boy.

If he had the slightest notion of how homosexual behaviour was dealt with by the regular police and that he would be the main subject of interest rather than the robber he would not have reported the theft.

Turing very much came from a class isolated from common consequences, he spent his youth at an elite school and then university, later at Bletchley Park, all places where lads with an odd bent were not at all uncommon, largely tolerated although often teased, and very rarely, if ever, arrested.

graemep4• 2 years ago

"A posthumous pardon was not considered appropriate as Alan Turing was properly convicted of what at the time was a criminal offence"

That is what pardons are for. If he was not properly convicted then the conviction could have been overturned instead.

allsummer6• 2 years ago

His death was consistent with both suicide and accident. He left no note, so the reasons for why he likely committed suicide are not clear. His nephew suggests it was "boyfriend trouble" and his friend said he had underwent the "treatment" in good spirits. Turing, on the advice of his lawyer, plead guilty and opted for chemical castration himself.

Of all the men in history charged with "gross indecency", Turing was the only one to receive a pardon. He was not castrated for being gay, but for a relationship with an Eastern European 19-year old homeless man, and getting his house broken into, while having a security clearance and access to secret information.

foldr8• 2 years ago

He was not castrated for being gay, but for a relationship with an Eastern European 19-year old homeless man, and getting his house broken into, while having a security clearance and access to secret information.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make here. His chemical castration was a condition of his probation following his indecency conviction, and had nothing directly to do with his security clearance.

dxdm2• 2 years ago

He was not castrated for being gay, but for a relationship with an Eastern European 19-year old homeless man, and getting his house broken into, while having a security clearance and access to secret information.

Assuming this is true (I don't know), would a heterosexual man have received the same punishment? In any case, it seems pretty cruel and unusual to me.

graemep4• 2 years ago

It is far from certain that he committed suicide:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-18561092

IIRC part of the coroner's reasoning is that "In a man of his type, one never knows what his mental processes are going to do next."

So essentially they concluded it was suicide because something about Turing (gay? academic? gay academic?) was regarded as indicating instability. I very much doubt a coroner today would follow that reasoning!

telesilla2• 2 years ago

Bear in mind he was given hormones. As I'm from that half of the population who experiences hormone fluctuations but it's part of what women expect so we know about this and plan for it and support each other, I'd not be surprised if he was unaware of how his emotional state might be affected.

Having said that, I'd like to see research on emotional states in male to female transitions, we should have plenty of data?

tim3334• 2 years ago

From that article he died of cyanide poisoning and while he as doing an experiment with that it is likely "the experiment was a ruse to disguise suicide, a scenario Turing had apparently mentioned to a friend in the past."

temporarely• 2 years ago

It's possible he was considered a security risk. Turing must have been very upset to keep quiet about precedence in terms of discoveries. I wonder if Shannon got under his skin ..

delichon• 2 years ago

What would justice have looked like for Alan Turing for his war contributions? I'm tempted to say that we should have showered him with our highest honors, that Britain should have made him a duke and a billionaire out of gratitude, and he should have had drawers full of keys to the great cities of the world. But none of that could have meaured up against just leaving the poor guy alone to pursue his own thoughts and loves. And who knows what gifts to the whole world he could have returned from that.

askvictor• 2 years ago

The novel "Machines Like Me" by Ian McEwan explores a Britain where Turing survived.

jgrahamc• 2 years ago

I greatly enjoyed that book (although I enjoy Ian McEwan's writing in general and YMMV).

gregw2• 2 years ago

Agree with your main final point, but not the billionaire bit...

Why not give the billion to British immigrant Marian Rejewski and his Polish intelligence service peers and leaders who actually cracked Enigma, fled Poland, and gave their findings to the British (and French) as their home country was being taken over?

https://daily.jstor.org/polish-codebreakers/ https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/polish-mathematici...

Detrytus2• 2 years ago

Exactly. There are few good reasons to call Alan Turing a genius, but breaking Enigma definitely isn't one of them.

defrost3• 2 years ago

What reward then for Bill Tutte who actually cold cracked a harder cipher than the one Turing supposedly cracked (He built upon earlier work by the Polish group who also made the first Bombes).

What reward for Tommy Flowers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._T._Tutte

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers

I like Turing, I like his work, but he was by no means the only genius at Bletchley.

graemep4• 2 years ago

Tommy Flowers was very badly treated: he was forced to destroy his work while others built on it.

scoopertrooper2• 2 years ago

Not as widely remembered, but it sounds like those two did a bit better than Turing. They both died of old age after successful careers in their respective fields.

willvarfar3• 2 years ago

Celebrating the less well known code breakers, an incomplete list includes

Arne Beurling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arne_Beurling, a Swede who cracked the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_and_Halske_T52

Hugh Foss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Foss who first cracked the early commercial variants of Enigma back in 1927

Gordon Welchman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Welchman ... argh where to start? :D

matthewdgreen4• 2 years ago

The reward they received is to live long lives without criminal prosecution and barbaric treatment at the hands of the law, I suppose. They also lived long enough to have their wartime work declassified and publicly recognized, which Turing never did.

BoingBoomTschak• 2 years ago

If you want to activate even more dormant neurons: what about Konrad Zuse? Every CS course's history segment mentions Turing and (sometimes) Church while this man's only crime is having been on the wrong side of history and his reward being relegated to the margins of said history.

blue_light_man• 2 years ago

You assume Alan Turing actually cares about what a bunch of British politicians think of him and the award they choose to give him.

You believe he cares about external validation and things like awards.

You believe he cares about being a billionaire.

You are more or less projecting your beliefs and ideas on what a successful life is on him.

Alan pursued truth throughout his life. Not external validations. He was a scientist not a politician or celebrity or a wannabe make world better startup founder.

Only truth could have set him free. And I hope he found his truth.

matthewdgreen4• 2 years ago

it’s okay to idealize people, but don’t take away their humanity. Turing might not have been exactly like you, but he was human and not a robot. He wanted the same sort of things that you do.

belter• 2 years ago

It seems there is no archive audio or old video from Alan Turing?

edent• 2 years ago

There was a series of lectures recorded by the BBC for radio broadcast.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/what-turing-himself-said-about-the...

Sadly, both were wiped - as was common for the time.

willvarfar3• 2 years ago

I had never heard that he died on the 10th anniversary of the D-Day landings.

The code breakers at Bletchley Park, Alan prominently among them, are often credited with saving millions of lives. The reasoning is that their work make the D-Day invasion possible in 1944, and had they not cracked the codes it would have been delayed at least a year and would have cost millions move lives.

And presumably Alan would have been reminded and thought about the D-Day landings on the days before his suicide.

ausaus• 2 years ago

Still time to donate: https://equalitytime.github.io/FlowersForTuring/

zulban• 2 years ago

I'm in London this week, seeing Bletchley park and the computer museum tomorrow! Super excited.

ThrowawayTestr• 2 years ago

Was murdered by his government 70 years ago*

Alan Turing died 70 years ago

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