US set to impose 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicle imports

https://www.ft.com/content/9b79b340-50e0-4813-8ed2-42a30e544e58

by jbegley • 2 years ago

39 68 2 years ago

krasin• 2 years ago

It's more important to require no connectivity, or only limit connectivity to the servers controlled by domestic companies and ensure that they have sources for all firmware within the car, than to tax the car imports.

Modern cars are designed like smartphones with mandatory cloud connectivity and updates, but they are cars: a faulty / hacked car is far more dangerous to the public than a faulty / hacked smartphone.

thevagrant• 2 years ago

Those are two separate issues.

A tariff helps balance the playing field for US manufacturing and does not try to solve the hacked car scenario

US needs manufacturing and tariffs unfortunately are in part necessary

Nifty3929• 2 years ago

At the expense of the Americans who are not in the automotive business.

geysersam• 2 years ago

How can a tariff 'balance' the playing field? Isn't that slightly double speak a la 1984? I think the US has every right to impose the tariffs they want, but let's call it what it is: anti-competetive protectionism.

wmf• 2 years ago

Let's have privacy for all cars. The amount of snitching going on is ridiculous.

_lvbh3• 2 years ago

Giving me “nobody is allowed to make the world a better place more than I do” vibes

amid mounting concern that China could flood the US market with cheap EVs

As a consumer, isn’t that a good thing?

nyokodo6• 2 years ago

As a consumer, isn’t that a good thing?

A foreign nation dumping massive volumes of their heavily subsidized production onto your local market and putting your domestic producers out of business is not a good thing for any nation. If China could produce EVs far cheaper than the United States without using vast amounts of coal, and without those heavy subsidies on the whole supply chain let alone on manufacturers directly, then there's a free market argument for going tariff free, but as it stands going tariff free would be just letting dirty, unfair competition to go unchecked. It'd be political suicide let alone national industrial suicide.

anigbrowl• 2 years ago

Your comment makes me wonder if you read the article at all. Several of your concerns were addressed therein.

One a more general note, even accepting your arguments about subsidies and production conditions doesn't overcome the fact that a lot of the vehicles depicted here are just better designed and more interesting-looking than western (and Japanese) offerings.

rightbyte2• 2 years ago

The auto-industry are full of them self longing for the high margin rich person market. BYD etc. seems like a good way to bring them back to earth.

_lvbh3• 2 years ago

Hey if China wants to spend their money giving me a cheaper car, I’ll take it.

vast amounts of coal

Legitimate concern. Let’s make regulation around that instead, not just a blanket tariff.

ok_dad4• 2 years ago

Aren’t electric cars in America subsidized by at least a 7500 dollar tax credit and probably not from the local or state gov? Wouldn’t it be better if we let them compete and then also subsidized cheaper EVs In the USA rather than the high end Tesla’s and stuff?

mindslight• 2 years ago

As a consumer, isn’t that a good thing?

Unfortunately not really, because any gains that would be had from prices going down are automatically erased by the Fed creating enough new money to ensure that average prices continue to go up. And rather than that money being injected broadly into the economy or spent by the government on useful endeavors, it just reaches consumers in the form of loans. So effectively EVs getting cheaper means that housing gets more expensive. See also: how the last 30 years of free trade policy has gutted American manufacturing jobs while not actually increasing individual purchasing power.

wholemodern3• 2 years ago

there are many reasons why US (and Europe) wants a high tariff on Chinese EVs

#1 - Ukraine, EU and US are engaged in a full out war against Russia and China. Why would US and EU want to allow China to destroy its car industry, while China helps Russia bomb, rape and kill Ukraine, and potentially EU/nato down the road?

#2 - Chinese EVs heavily subsidized by the government, to the tune of thousands of dollars of losses per vehicle. That's how China has destroyed solar industries in US and EU.

#3 - Chinese EVs are created in abysmal work condition and tons of destructions to the environment. There's no other way for US and EU to punish China on that except with tariffs.

#4 - they know some immoral consumers in US will ignore dictatorship concerns and just go for some cheap products, so they are taking a decisive step

#5 - other countries are already leveraging high tariffs on Chinese cars, or is in the process of doing so - it's clear to most countries that China is dumping. Europe has aimed to place 50% by November. Brazil has a 10% tariff that increases to 36% in 2026.

As a consumer in the US (and Europe), most of us do not want some cheaper car, just so our country can lose in a battle against dictatorship

wholemodern3• 2 years ago

build quality, performance, serviceability, support for Chinese EV cars are also low/non-existent. there are plenty of videos from China that shows Chinese EV cars not working after a few days, or ones that combust into flames on the streets

trogdor• 2 years ago

Ukraine, EU and US are engaged in a full out war against Russia and China.

That is wild hyperbole.

fargle3• 2 years ago

https://archive.is/P91pA

please if you are going to post a paywalled article, have the decency to post an archive link

x86x872• 2 years ago

Decency? Why the attack here?

fargle3• 2 years ago

it's not an attack. i just find it rude to post a paywalled article. why not take two seconds to post an archive link if you really need to?

because someone else will do it for you? is that really a decent attitude?

viewtransform• 2 years ago

The unspoken etiquette here is to just post the archive link for the benefit of others, as you have done.

Then move on, knowing you have contributed a small act of kindness to the world today.

fargle3• 2 years ago

if you post an interesting link, that nobody else can read, then someone else posts the archive link to fix that, it isn't a "kindness". it's cleanup for someone else.

should we never speak of it?

zhengiszen• 2 years ago

It happened with Samsung/Huawei against Apple and now with EV coming from China... When competition is to much to bear there's still propaganda disguised as law to protect the consumer (from who ?). In the long run it will just accelerate the inevitable demise. How much percentage of import are we talking about here ?

Sabinus4• 2 years ago

China protects their chosen domestic industries, why is it wrong for the US to do it?

james_chu3• 2 years ago

Why are Chinese electric cars seen as a threat to U.S. jobs and national security?

xwowsersx• 2 years ago

Job losses in US automotive industry, supply chain dependence which could pose a risk to nat sec if geopolitical tensions arise or China decides to restrict exports, technological dominance threatening to undermine US competitiveness, data security concerns if they collect sensitive data through their vehicles. Not saying I agree with any of these reasons, but just thinking out loud and trying to steelman.

james_chu3• 2 years ago

I really appreciate your perspective that the United States could address these challenges by investing in domestic electric vehicle manufacturing, diversifying the supply chain, promoting innovation, and establishing a robust data privacy and cybersecurity framework. Unfortunately, it seems that the Biden administration has not considered this approach.

Why might that be? Is it because imposing tariffs is the least costly option compared to making investments?

james_chu3• 2 years ago

Chinese electric cars are viewed as a threat to U.S. jobs and national security primarily due to the risks associated with data security and the potential economic impact on the American auto industry. The fear of sensitive information being collected and transmitted back to China, coupled with the possibility of undercutting domestic manufacturers and causing job losses, underlies the concerns raised by the Biden administration and experts regarding the implications of Chinese electric vehicles on U.S. national interests. ---- Can Tesla collect the same amount of data in China? Does the Chinese government not worry about this?

hi-v-rocknroll5• 2 years ago

China tried xenophobia and protectionism for 1000 years, and Japan also for almost that amount of time. It didn't work out well for either when Europe and American ironclads dropped by for a visit.

Market isolationism and protectionism is a clear signal of weakness.

defrost2• 2 years ago

It didn't work out well for either when Europe and American ironclads dropped by for a visit.

To be clear, you're advocating for the rights of profit driven armed drug dealers to addict citizens of foreign countries?

https://asiapacificcurriculum.ca/learning-module/opium-wars-...

hi-v-rocknroll5• 2 years ago

There aren't many Chinese or any other foreign EVs in the US because they fail to invest in the homologation process that other manufacturers are required to undertake.

All this sort of pointless protectionism really accomplishes is deny US customers from having more choices.

nielsbot• 2 years ago

Why is this pointless?

hi-v-rocknroll5• 2 years ago

There aren't zillions of Chinese EVs on American roads, but this just makes it impossible for Americans to buy a Chinese EV even if it attains homologation and it allows American EV makers to keep prices artificially high. It screws American consumers.

Sabinus4• 2 years ago

More of the opening rounds of The Great Decoupling. It'll be interesting to see the effects of this as we go on. What will the authoritarians do when the markets of rich consumers go away?

1attice• 2 years ago

context [also from HN]: https://insideevs.com/features/719015/china-is-ahead-of-west... "I Went To China And Drove A Dozen Electric Cars. Western Automakers Are Cooked"

seo-speedwagon3• 2 years ago

In the US, average transaction price for new cars is a bit north of $47k, and the average loan duration something like 67 months. It’s no wonder the US is throwing up anti-competitive protectionist policies.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/kbb-atp-february-...

noashavit• 2 years ago

Makes sense to me. Many countries impose tariffs on importing cars. Especially when they expect a mass influx of those vehicles to flood the market. Within china, they are incentivizing ppl to buy electric by imposing high registration fees for non EVs. They have stated clearly that they want to dominate the EVa market, so makes sense we will impose tariffs to try and protect domestic car manufacturers

HDThoreaun• 2 years ago

You protect domestic car manufacturers by forcing them to compete with a decent product. Banning foreign products, which is what this effectively does, just makes the domestic products worse as they face less competition.

US set to impose 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicle imports

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