PFAS in blood are ubiquitous and associated with risk of cardiovascular diseases

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-03-pfas-blood-ubiquitous-cardiovascular-diseases.html

by PaulHoule • 2 years ago

46 74 2 years ago

Another daily chemical that has estrogenic effects.

Guys (and maybe girls), get a full blood panel done that shows you the exact numbers of lipid, testosterone , and estrogen in your body.

I got panels done and was blown away by how low my T levels were (talking less than 250 ng/dl, full blown hypogonadism). My lipid panels show I had high ldl cholesterol and my blood pressure was high.

Worse yet, I work out 5 times a week, run, and eat a very healthy diet. I have a very healthy weight.

I've started taking 100ml shots split out twice a week. Over the past 6 weeks my pre and post blood works are startling.

LDL dropped considerably. My blood pressure dropped and is nowich safer.

It's death by a thousand cuts with all of these chemicals out there that turn friggin frogs gay poisoning us.

(Alex Jones ref btw)

vthallam• 2 years ago

I've started taking 100ml shots split out twice a week

mind sharing what kind of shots?

automatic6131• 2 years ago

Gonna be testosterone, and 100mg

stemlord2• 2 years ago

I haven't ever seen a reputable study that proves a significant connection between T levels and sexual orientation in humans

cameronh90• 2 years ago

There are no conclusive studies, but there are credible hypotheses and studies in animal models that suggest sexual orientation and gender identity (as well as other neurological factors) may be impacted by prenatal exposure to hormones and endocrine disruptors.

The science is a long way from having conclusive evidence either way, but there is a reasonable basis to think that it might have an impact, which should urge caution. If we found a new material that looked a lot like asbestos under a microscope, you'd presumably limit your exposure to it until proven safe?

uaserussia2• 2 years ago

Its the opposite of what you may think. High T makes you more sexual and less inhibited. Many, many, many, many people turn to the dark side after using anabolic steroids. Even if they don't become full Sith masters, they often still like to dabble in dark side of Thailand.

voisin• 2 years ago

Will you have to stay on the shots forever or are you doing things in conjunction to stay at good levels (if so, what? Sounds like your lifestyle was already healthy)

freitzkriesler26• 2 years ago

To reap the benefits of TRT yes, but switching off means I just return to baseline.

Solvency• 2 years ago

Meh. I had he same blood work results as a 35 year old 4 years ago. I was "healthy" and exercising every day and eating "healthy".

Turns out running 8 miles every day and not eating over 100g of protein and not having enough fat KILLS your hormones because you're always in a catabolic state.

Now I only lift heavy, fixed my macros, get better sleep, focus on muscle mass, and DON'T need TRT. My natural T levels tripled in only 2 years.

Some biased ideas of "healthy" are not optimal.

eurekin• 2 years ago

Can you expand a bit? Seems very interesting...

How do you manage to keep 100g of protein daily?

What is fixing macros?

How do you know you were in catabolic state, were you constantly loosing weight?

fork-while-fork• 2 years ago

Can you define what you consider a "very healthy diet"?

freitzkriesler26• 2 years ago

Breakfast is a protein shake of casein and collagen protein. With added berries in water. Oatmeal and a glass of coffee.

Lunch is a can of cooked chicken breast, 2 cups of fat free Greek yogurt , and a small salad with olive oil and vinegar.

Dinner is typically whatever my wife decides to make. She's Greek so a lot of Greek and Mediterranean food. Salads at every meal.

malfist2• 2 years ago

It's death by a thousand cuts with all of these chemicals out there that turn friggin frogs gay poisoning us.

I hope that statement is a joke and just reference to that insane Alex Jones clip. But if it's not, no amount of estrogenic compounds will turn you gay. Otherwise MTF folks would be universally straight after taking hormone therapy.

freitzkriesler26• 2 years ago

Reference to Alex Jones.

User233• 2 years ago

I don't think the term "gay" is particularly well defined for amphibians. Frogs do change sex though[1]. Whether or not exposure to exogenous estrogenic compounds triggers that I do not know.

[1] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/frogs-rev...

User233• 2 years ago

The following is not intended as advice for you, because I don't want to make assumptions about your healthcare situation (and you didn't ask me for advice). However I'm sharing it here in case it's helpful to others in whom you may have aroused curiosity.

Exogenous testosterone supplementation induces potentially permanent primary hypogonadism in patients that don't already have it. It can also eventually more or less completely atrophy the testes. Those effects can be partially counteracted by additional drugs, cycling, and so on, but those approaches have their own problems.

Some doctors want to go straight to testosterone supplementation, but I would insist on first eliminating secondary hypogonadism as a cause of low serum testosterone. See a good urologist or endocrinologist who will work with you to figure out root cause to the extent possible. There are treatments for secondary hypogonadism that will restore testosterone to very high levels in individuals with healthy testes.

freitzkriesler26• 2 years ago

Yes this is a concern of mine which is why I am dosing 100IU of HCG as a preventative to this.

jollyllama• 2 years ago

Guys (and maybe girls), get a full blood panel done that shows you the exact numbers of lipid, testosterone , and estrogen in your body.

It's probably just as much of a concern for females as for males. The idea of "estrogen" as "the female hormone" is a significant oversimplification.

aueightyfive• 2 years ago

Another great reason to become a regular blood donor. I recall reading that the only way to remove these forever substances from your blood was through donations. My wife and I go every 3 months.

hx8• 2 years ago

I was surprised to learn that a full blood donation (500ml) is about 10% of all of the blood in the body.

onemoresoop• 2 years ago

I was surprised that you cannot donate less than a pint of blood. I wanted to donate but that put me off, one pint is too much lost blood in one sitting. I wonder why these restrictions and why not allow people to donate half of that for example. Is it just for convenience for blood collectors?

spirit557• 2 years ago

Ive never done it and the whole thing grosses me out so much id probably pass out. but reading about this lately im honestly considering it. at the same time it makes me wonder i never was interested in donating blood for greater good but now im motivated to get rid of any pfas... so someone else can take them up?

malfist2• 2 years ago

Why do you find donating blood gross?

trueduke• 2 years ago

So the solution is to give it to someone else?

slices• 2 years ago

the recipients have bigger problems than PFAS, so it is a win-win deal

bboygravity2• 2 years ago

The sollution to pollution is dilution. (half joking)

If you go regularly the concentration of PFAS in your donated blood would be lower compared to going more sporadically.

CharlesW• 2 years ago

For anyone else interested in reading more: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...

User233• 2 years ago

Who would have thought bloodletting[1] would make a comeback.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodletting

hilbert428• 2 years ago

If the problem gets worse perhaps there's another solution. Like kidney patients on dialysis, we all could soon be lining up for PFAS and perhaps nano plastics dialysis.

bayindirh2• 2 years ago

It's really too bad that I faint when I go through something involving needles, veins and blood.

bluSCALE43• 2 years ago

I don't faint but I get super weird and blood slows to a trickle. But I think I need to try again.

hokkos2• 2 years ago

but some plasma machines from Haemonetics contaminated donors and plasma with micro particulates

https://basta.media/don-de-sang-plaquettes-plasma-particules...

a4000• 2 years ago

It's also good for getting heavy metals out of the blood too.

aszantu• 2 years ago

it's everywhere, recycled plastic is even worse

https://theconversation.com/dangerous-chemicals-found-in-rec...

And paper-cups and straws are lined with the stuff and aren't recycleable

https://scienceswitch.com/2023/08/27/90-of-eco-friendly-pape...

bboygravity2• 2 years ago

I stopped using paper straws after having read this stuff on HN.

Thanks HN commenters :)

hilbert428• 2 years ago

"...Paper Straws Contain Traces of Toxic Forever Chemicals"

Good idea, but what are you going to use instead? As plastic ones are out, that only leaves glass and perhaps bamboo straws. I know they exist as I've seen them (but I can't say I've seen a glass one in decades).

Unfortunately, from my recollection, glass straws are inconvenient and can be dangerous if broken.

Frankly, I reckon it's hopeless, between nano plastics and PFAS I can't possibly conceive how I can effectively eliminate them from my life.

anonuser1234562• 2 years ago

Our data shows a statistically significant correlation between PFAS in the blood and harmful blood lipids linked to cardiovascular risk.

Fast food consumption is also associated with both. Was this controlled for? How about BMI?

thomasmg• 2 years ago

The paper is available, so feel free to check yourself. BMI was taken into account. Fast food I do not see, but where did you read about this association?

colechristensen• 2 years ago

At the end of February this year the FDA banned PFAS in food packaging which was prevalent especially in paper products which held greasy food. If you ate a bunch of French fries there was a good chance you were exposed to a significant amount of extra PFAS. This study could be finding a correlation between diet and PFAS exposure and nothing more. I’m not saying it is but if not corrected for the signal is suspect.

anonuser1234562• 2 years ago

I do not have a link, but have read it in multiple journals.

The MAO is entirely plausible. Many fast food wrappers are lined with PFAS because of its temperature stability and hydrophobic properties. At high temperatures these coatings also leech the coating.

hilbert428• 2 years ago

"Fast food consumption is also associated with both"

I'm not arguing the point here but why would fast food have more PFAS in it? Seems these days all food is grown under conditions and goes through similar handling before it gets to customers.

sirsinsalot• 2 years ago

Paper straws and paper wrapping, cartons and so on are lined with PFAS. Paper isn't waterproof so to get the green credentials they coat it with PFAS.

That cheeseburger wrapper, feels waxy doesn't it? That's PFAS.

TinyRick• 2 years ago

Many fast food wrappers/containers contained PFAS until very recently [0]. Putting hot food out of a fryer into those containers would leech some of the PFAS into the food.

[0] https://apnews.com/article/pfas-forever-chemicals-fast-food-...

carlmr• 2 years ago

It seems food packaging is at fault here [1], and fast food has much more individually wrapped items, small ketchup bags, and even before preparation often is single-portioned. Meaning insane amounts of touching packaging material compared to real food.

[1] https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-contaminants/dan...

fy20• 2 years ago

The switch from plastic to "biodegradable" materials for food packaging will probably be shown to be a grave mistake in the future. Natural cardboard will quickly loose it's strength if exposed to hot oily food, so they are usually coated with materials to prevent that.

https://envirobites.org/2020/01/01/the-problem-with-pfas-how...

I also suspect PFAS or similar coatings are used on paper cups to aid separation when stacked.

A few years ago I visited a Burger King in Spain and the cups have a strange slimy feel, which felt similar to when you get PTFE spray on your hands (good as a lubricant where you don't want it to spread to nearby parts like oil).

uaserussia2• 2 years ago

Fast food is also full of PFAS.

hokkos2• 2 years ago

in the study the confounding factors adjusted for are "certain risk behaviors (alcohol consumption, smoking), obesity and lipid-lowering medication" and they "generally decreased the strength of and number of significant associations, but did not substantially change the overall patterns".

PFAS in blood are ubiquitous and associated with risk of cardiovascular diseases

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