Ex-workers at Temu owner PDD suffer surveillance and ruin over non-competes

https://www.ft.com/content/d40cd7a9-24c7-4bae-91b6-ae74b54e5978

64 50 2 years ago

Element_• 2 years ago

https://archive.is/qYnhE#selection-1583.0-1583.85

jncfhnb3• 2 years ago

A few months after starting a new job, in November 2023, he received a summons for a Shanghai labour arbitration case. Pinduoduo had submitted video evidence of Yao walking in and out of a rival’s office for a week.
Last month, the arbitrator ruled in Pinduoduo’s favour, ordering Yao to pay his former company damages, lawyers’ fees, and return the Rmb11,000 he had earned in gardening leave pay. Altogether he owes Pinduoduo Rmb438,000 ($61,000).

Wild.

I’m surprised people use temu at all. I was surprised to see it air ads on the Super Bowl.

mint23• 2 years ago

I’m not surprised most Americans or really any people use it.

Most people stop thinking after they see a price. Quality and supply chain implications are ignored with willfulness.

reaperman3• 2 years ago

It's not like shipping at the mall means that I'm going to get higher quality or a more ethical supply chain. There's plenty of very low quality $200 sweaters/shoes/belts/jeans/etc at established retailers. I'm not whattaboutism'ing -- it's just that people seem to criticize Temu far more than it earns.

If you can afford to shop exclusively at Patagonia, that's wonderful! But I often feel like the western brands are mad at Temu primarily for giving consumers back all the middle-man markups, so billionaires like Lawrence Stroll stop getting their cut when people buy from Temu instead of Ralph Lauren (and just keep the extra money that those owners are used to capturing).

JumpCrisscross2• 2 years ago

Most people stop thinking after they see a price

The first time. Then they learn. Assuming the consumer is stupid is part of what downed Wish [1].

[1] https://ir.wish.com/news-releases/news-release-details/wish-...

nine_zeros• 2 years ago

I’m surprised people use temu at all. I was surprised to see it air ads on the Super Bowl.

Not surprised at all. The prices are too good to ignore for the average American. Amazon's quality is also a dumpster fire these days so there is no point paying higher prices.

Shareholder-extraction-driven companies like Amazon just cannot compete with market-capture-driven companies. Amazon NEEDS to keep prices high to return value to shareholders. Temu doesn't need to yet.

tomcar288• 2 years ago

>> Why surprised?

How is the average consumer supposed to know that Shanghai/chinese labor laws are this incredibly abusive. and isn't that the fault of the legal system over there? I don't think any profit seeking western company would ever think twice about abusing the legal system if it can profit from it: just look at the entire industry of patent litigation, ISPs, insurance quoting, the list goes on, etc!

As for cheap goods. I've ordered quite a bit from that platform. they have very very good return policy, i can assure you. You just need to be smart about only ordering things where quality isn't the highest concern. For example, garden labels. you can't mess those up. Electronics are a bit iffy. but irrigation supplies, i've had good luck with.

ilrwbwrkhv2• 2 years ago

I mean its just superior to Amazon in every way?

taskforcegemini• 2 years ago

you get the same trash you get at amazon for a lower price. Why pay Bezos the middleman cut? of course people should avoid both. if politicians put up blocks on either seller, they would have my vote.

_fat_santa• 2 years ago

PDD's strategy here is to get entry level workers in the door and have then sign a non-compete which would make it impossible for that person to survive if they left the company, once they are stuck there they work them to the bone with 996.

Needless to say this is so so fucked up but it's China so go figure.

alephnerd2• 2 years ago

Sadly, it's a fairly common practice all over Asia, and a major reason decent talent will attempt to move to opportunities abroad.

walterbell2• 2 years ago

Techniques to constrain labor mobility are ever evolving.

https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/apple-google-others-...

  Apple, Google, Intel, and Adobe will shell out $415 million to put to rest an antipoaching civil lawsuit that accused the companies of conspiring not to hire each other's employees.

  ..Email exchanges among such top executives as late Apple co-founder and CEO Steve Jobs and former Google CEO and now executive chairman of Alphabet Eric Schmidt revealed how requests were made not to hire certain employees away from each other.

  One email exchange recounted how Jobs asked Schmidt to stop Google from trying to hire one of Apple's engineers. "I would be very pleased if your recruiting department would stop doing this," Jobs wrote to Schmidt on March 7, 2007.

  Schmidt then sent the request on, saying "I believe we have a policy of no recruiting from Apple and this is a direct inbound request. Can you get this stopped and let me know why this is happening? I will need to send a response back to Apple quickly so please let me know as soon as you can."

https://www.financialadvisoriq.com/c/2042553/239943/morgan_s...

  ..defecting FAs must choose a strategic and nuanced path — or otherwise face liabilities, Ichter warns. During their "garden leaves," he says, "they can only talk to the clients about the same thing they were talking about while they were employees of their old company. They cannot attempt to move the clients [or] solicit the clients" or they will risk triggering claims that they failed their duties of loyalty to their employe.. [but] ..retaining clients these days is not as hard as sometimes portrayed, since clients' personal loyalties frequently surpass their institutional ones

soared• 2 years ago

Not great but incomparable to the above poster.

33a2• 2 years ago

In china an employer is required to pay something like 30% of your salary if it elects to enforce a non-compete. If the company doesn't pay you, then it's non-enforceable. Assuming you were at some decent compensation, this can actually be quite a bit of money. So if these workers took that pay cheque, they get to enjoy the timeoff during the non-compete and go party or start a family or whatever. The downside of the non-competes in China though is that because you are being paid to NOT work, if you start moonlighting or doing something sketchy the penalties are way more severe. I actually kind of like this approach to non-competes and it is in some ways better than how it works in many US states.

https://goglobalgeo.com/blog/non-compete-clauses-in-china-re...

The big problem with this system is not the penalties for breaking it, but the fact that it can sabotage you if you get hit too early in your career with a big gap. On the other hand, it gives you a nice opportunity to take a year or two off to start a family, spin up a new business or go back to school.

JumpCrisscross2• 2 years ago

FTA:

“Yao’s agreement prohibited him from working for rivals for nine months, during which time he would receive Rmb3,700 ($513) a month. It was too little to live on, Yao said.”

33a2• 2 years ago

Yeah, and it's very weird to bring a non-compete down on an entry level worker like this. Under what circumstances is it even worth it for PDD to spend the resources to enforce and monitor this kind of an agreement? I wonder if there's more to this story than the FTA?

Also keep in mind this guy could have easily gotten a different job while still collecting the non-compete pay at a non-rival company, even still doing programming. Something about it doesn't quite add up to me.

jncfhnb3• 2 years ago

30% of an entry level job is not a living wage, let alone a lot of money.

This guy was getting about $6k per year for his non compete, and has been sued for $60k. This has effectively destroyed the prospects of this guy’s entire life. He couldn’t mentally endure what they were demanding, and then they gave him a non living wage while simultaneously forbidding him from finding employment.

gs176• 2 years ago

they get to enjoy the timeoff during the non-compete and go party or start a family

On one hand, you have a guaranteed income for a few months, but I wouldn't be starting a family or partying if was living somewhere where I expected to make over 3x more. Here, rent alone is expected to a third of your income.

ffgjgf1• 2 years ago

30% Assuming you were at some decent compensation

Assuming your compensation was well above average and you lived quite frugally and well below your means.

There are countries in Europe where you can claim unemployment even if you left on your own and that would pay more so it doesn’t seem like a very good system at all. Of course nobody would really expect a “communist” country like China to not have garbage tier workers rights..

Ex-workers at Temu owner PDD suffer surveillance and ruin over non-competes

Related Stories