On Handwriting and Switching to Cursive

https://brianschrader.com/archive/on-handwriting-and-switching-to-cursive/

58 30 2 years ago

I like writing by hand, but why cursive? why not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_lettering#Freehand_l... ?

I was already somewhat familiar with cursive, and I knew it was a ~more proper~ way to write in that cursive is designed to lessen strains on the hand and be easier to write at speed. Also I wanted to. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

vonjuice• 2 years ago

What's fairly clear to me is that it's not designed to be read. At least my own, it's just too easy to end up with an almost doctor's hand writing. I refuse that on principle.

I had a similar click as you describe in starting to gain enjoyment out of handwriting, but for me was simply to get a pen that felt fluid and smooth.

candiddevmike• 2 years ago

I wish my handwriting looked that good

0823498723498722• 2 years ago

It's not as if the latin alphabet has changed significantly over the last century, so there are plenty of handbooks which are long since out of copyright and have been scanned online. After finding one you like, it's just a matter of practising.

adrian_b• 2 years ago

During high school, I have switched from cursive to technical lettering, and I have used that ever after, including for taking notes during university.

With modern writing instruments, i.e. rollers or fineliners, the difference in speed between cursive and technical lettering is negligible and the latter is much more legible.

pizzafeelsright• 2 years ago

Print for others. Cursive for me.

I developed my own writing style. I can write about 60wpm.

Cursive is faster than print at the cost of legibility for those with less than perfect penmanship.

euroderf• 2 years ago

I have my own style that is sort of a block/cursive mongrel. I don't suppose there's a website dedicated to this sort of thing ? Formulating own-styles ? Mix & match.

gcr• 2 years ago

I’m partial to Italic handwriting! Iceland has a comprehensive handwriting education curriculum to teach it to kids and adults. https://penvibe.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Handwriting-R...

toomanyaccts• 2 years ago

Can you share more about using a dip pen for cursive? Or what pen you’re using? I always assumed that would be rough given the upward strokes. I do love a dip pen, but it’s definitely a slower mode.

mistrial9• 2 years ago

slow is a feature not a bug ?

sonicrocketman4• 2 years ago

For my daily-driver, I use a Schneider Fountain. The exact two I have aren't made anymore, but I linked the most similar one I could find.

The dip pen is actually just one of those almost-novelty quill-looking ones. I cut off the ornamentation and just use it as a regular dip pen. Works great. It came with a set of nibs including one that is basically just a traditional fountain pen. That nib is the one I use the most.

Importantly, dip nibs often splotch ink because they're coated with oils by the manufacturer. I found out much later that you need to prep the nibs before you use them (either by wiping the oils off or lightly burning it off, which is what I did). That fixed the splotchy-ness for good.

Lately I've been considering some nice wooden dip pens.

Fountain Pen: https://www.amazon.com/Schneider-Fountain-Light-Barrel-16820...

Nib Prep Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE12e60BA6E

[Edit: Addendum]

Cursive felt slower to me at first, but now writing those print samples in the post felt slower than the cursive sample. It's really important to just practice the strokes. I spent an hour a day for almost two weeks just writing "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" over an over to get the strokes right.

forbiddenvoid• 2 years ago

The first example that I think was meant to show "bad" is still about 100 times better than my handwriting has ever been.

polycaster2• 2 years ago

I’ve been intrigued by taking notes on paper often before. Every attempt has failed because of the lack of proper system for organization of my notes. For instance, I have two topics I have to take notes for. Now I have to start planning how much space I have to reserve for the first note. Otherwise I have to continue the note after the second note, which is kind of confusing. Are the handwriting folks among you using a particularly clever organizational system or is this just something you live with and even appreciate?

sonicrocketman4• 2 years ago

I've solved this in several ways that depend on the need.

1. Multiple small notebooks. I love ~50pg, 5"x7" lined notebooks. They're cheap, and portable. Just get one for each project.

2. I usually allow myself 1-2 extra pages for longer thoughts or things that will require follow-up. That almost always works.

3. Indexes. Set aside 20pgs at the front (or back) for a table of contents. I do this with my longer notebooks (~200pgs) and I never have trouble finding things. If you need to continue a section later on call it "Project X (cont.)"

I feel like #3 is something that generations before us knew implicitly that we've forgotten.

[edit: grammar]

[Edit: Addendum]

Also, always date your entries. That helps a lot.

polycaster2• 2 years ago

Hey, thanks for the input. About the references ("Project X (cont.)"): Coming from a digital context this feels super awkward, naturally. But I come to believe that this might actually be supportive when it comes to navigating physical sheets. It might help to shape your spatial model.

BobaFloutist• 2 years ago

I rarely if ever use handwritten notes as a reference tool, I take handwritten notes because the act of taking the note helps me remember the material.

If the material is something I particularly need to remember, I can shift it to an actual reference document which contains all the most essential details.

quectophoton• 2 years ago

I don't organize in any clever way, but I use MUJI's loose leaf notebooks (I use A5 size but they have other sizes as well).

Highly recommend.

I can't use any other type of notebook more or less for the same reason as you, and this has made me stop worrying too much about writing stuff "the wrong way" or having the notebook become too thin because I remove sheets.

So I just start writing about a "topic" on its own blank sheet, and then I periodically move stuff around when I need more pages. If I know I will write/draw a lot about a topic (e.g. a project I'm still brainstorming), I usually leave a few blank sheets between this and the next topic.

Any unused blank pages can be shuffled around anytime. I like to move "quick reference" stuff to the beginning.

The notebook always has roughly the same amount of sheets because even if I remove a few, I can add more in their place.

If you go specifically for MUJI and want to try this out, the normal way would be to use their "loose leaf cover", but you'll only be able to fit around 80 sheets or so. If you want something more chonky, you can use their kraft or polypropylene binders as "cover" and just use that as notebook. I'm literally doing that, and it seems to be an expected use, because each loose leaf package has a suspiciously convenient amount of sheets to conveniently fit one binder.

rcarmo• 2 years ago

Cursive died when we got ballpoint pens, IMHO. I get the author found it easier to do cursive with a fountain/dip pen (I went through a phase where my college notes were also with those kinds of pens, because they were stylish _and_ fun to write with), but cursive quickly devolves into oblique scratches and loops when written at speed (or by doctors, cof cof).

I (and my kids, who are teens) independently adopted a fairly standardized “printed” style as soon as we could. Nothing like the amazingly ruler-straight stylish handwriting my father has (having gone through “trade school”, where readability was important, and being a jeweler/diamond cutter, where minutiae in control were appreciated), but at least our handwriting is legible.

It could always do with a little more practice, though, and I resort to handwriting when I _really_ want to remember things. Using keyboards (even at speed) might be very much a sign of the times, but memory and retention simply isn’t the same as the multiple associations you form when shaping out words with a pen.

Which is why I still wish we had proper digital notebooks and insist on using Apple’s Scribble whenever feasible — even if it’s frustrating, the interstitial thoughs you work through as you write really help with memory (and writing style).

unsignedint• 2 years ago

Cursive writing often seems designed with right-handed individuals in mind. As someone who is left-handed, my last encounter with mandatory cursive writing was during my school years, within a brief part of the curriculum, and it was an exceedingly challenging experience. I find myself longing for a writing system that accommodates left-handed people more naturally and efficiently, offering an alternative that does not feel as cumbersome as cursive or as basic as print.

sonicrocketman4• 2 years ago

I’m left-handed too, and I’ve always felt that I struggled with handwriting partly because of that.

Though after smearing my hands with ink for the past 12 months, I can say that with some practice cursive has turned out to be fine. These days even the dip pen I’m using dries faster than I’m writing.

kvnnews• 2 years ago

I went through similar story arc. Writing on good paper with a good pen is just fun and very practical. Had to relearn cursive as an adult but I’m not looking back. Now I have my own system for notes and tracking things. I don’t miss the txt files.

LennyHenrysNuts• 2 years ago

I did this about four years ago. My entire data storage system is now in painstakingly cross-referenced journals instead of Org-Mode.

My handwriting is still unpleasant,but I find it helps me retain information by writing it down and slowing down my mind to match the speed of my pen.

I predominantly use Italic script but I will write in cursive if I need speed.

fahrnfahrnfahrn• 2 years ago

I had a boring class in junior high school where we had to write down everything the teacher said. To make it interesting, I’d translate the teacher’s English to really bad German and then write it in cursive backwards. I can still write backwards cursive without thinking about it much. The thing is, these days, I hardly ever need to write. About the only things I write by hand are the rare check and my signature.

iamflimflam1• 2 years ago

Maybe I’m old and out of date - but don’t you learn cursive as a child at school and then use it for the rest of your life?

TheTxT• 2 years ago

I was born in 2000 and learned writing cursive. After some years of my teachers complaining that they are unable to read my chicken scratch one of them suggested I should try to write in „normal“ print lettering instead. This solved the issue and I haven’t written anything in cursive since.

deprecative• 2 years ago

Middle millennial here. I learned cursive in elementary school for a few months. After the module was over we all went back to printing and nobody made us write in cursive. I can probably struggle through most of the cursive alphabet but I couldn't write the alphabet as a whole.

staticman2• 2 years ago

I was born in the early 80s. When I was in school- maybe in second or third grade, they told us we were learning cursive and we had to use it for the rest of our lives. This was untrue, I never learned cursive well and never really used it. I even remember a teacher in sixth grade remarking at one point that one thing she doesn't approve of is the fact elementary school teachers lie to kids about needing to use cursive from then on when teaching cursive.

I do recall one weirdo typing teacher in middle school who didn't realize the "need to use cursive the rest of your lives" rule wasn't a real rule and was scolding some kids for turning in material in handwriting, but I think that was literally the only time it happened, ever. (I don't recall why a typing class had a handwriting component, I think she probably usually never received written material from kids and was greatly confused as to why it wasn't in cursive on that special occasion, maybe she was filling in for another teacher?)

I've always struggled with cursive (Reading cursive, that is, I only use it to sign my name) and have never bothered to learn it from a book- I've read Gen Z may never have learned it or may be bad at it- so I may have been ahead of my time.

mrgoldenbrown• 2 years ago

Use it for what? The only time I've been required to use it in the past 25 years of living and working in the US was taking the GRE in 2002 or so. The test itself was all via computer but you had to write a paragraph (specifically in cursive) promising not to cheat.

sn9• 2 years ago

I learned it in the 90s but it wasn't required in school after the initial learning period.

I think the only time I ever had to actually use it was when the SAT and GRE required us to write some oath or something in cursive. At least I think that's what was going on; it's been a while.

I still think there's value in teaching it. While I don't use the cursive I was taught, it still influenced my handwriting style in ways I find beneficial and I can still read cursive which comes in handy for anyone with interests in history.

On Handwriting and Switching to Cursive

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