'Employers hold the cards now' as power shifts in US jobs market

https://www.ft.com/content/faa8d018-41c1-4e28-aa89-cabd02471d1f

by belter • 2 years ago

46 59 2 years ago

ft.com

braza2• 2 years ago

https://archive.is/dzWM6

mouzogu2• 2 years ago

"companies becoming more demanding of their staff as they find it easier to replace them."

for (web)dev it began with learn2code. that was the death knell.

"At this point, I suspect we will see further moderation of wage growth"

with this being the goal.

i haven't had a pay rise in 4 years. and was told indirectly, since job market is bad they feel no need to be competitive.

kaashif• 2 years ago

The past 4 years includes a time when the market was red hot and great for software engineers - 2021-2.

Not getting a raise during that time is due to something other than "job market is bad" because it wasn't.

mouzogu2• 2 years ago

2020 - sorry covid, hiring and pay restricted
2021 - see above
2023 layoffs
2024 dead job market
"great for software engineers"

you must be referring to yourself eh?

fxtentacle2• 2 years ago

I agree that there are a lot of coding bootcamp web devs flooding the market. But I see almost no influence on the full stack consulting market that I'm working in.

Those bootcamp devs can replace your outsourced devs in India. But typically they have very little skill in thinking like an engineer, meaning they will utterly fail to implement any business logic and/or those software components that actually create value for the customer.

If you feel like learn2code graduates are competing with you, maybe that means it's time for you to level up yourself.

giraffe_lady• 2 years ago

Fresh out of the schools, in the first year or two sure. But afaik most of them don't really stay full time engineers for that long, most bounce out or switch to other specializations with the experience they've earned.

Code school devs 4+ years into their careers are as reliable as anyone else at the same experience level. I slightly prefer them with hiring, since succeeding with that approach shows a certain degree of flexibility and calculated risk taking.

The first code school cohorts are a decade or more into their careers now. Most of them didn't stick around but the ones who did are very solid. They are just the forerunners, the big swell of 2015-2018 graduates who stayed in the industry is just hitting that mid-senior level.

rcbdev2• 2 years ago

For the record - This is absolutely not the case in Europe as far as I can tell.

dagw• 2 years ago

I guess it really must depend a lot on where you are then, because in my experience of my corner of Europe, lots of companies have had significant layoffs, jobs hunting is getting harder and raises have not at all kept of with inflation.

StreetChief• 2 years ago

There are major strikes in Germany about Quality of Life issues right now. I think France might be having strikes too now, but I haven't investigated the one clip I saw.

fxtentacle2• 2 years ago

Fully agree.

The article says "The days of the battle for talent are over."

but as a consultant I keep getting project requests by companies who couldn't find enough employees and are now willing to pay a premium for outside help that may enable then to still keep their deadlines.

braza2• 2 years ago

I do not buy that cause in Central Europe there’s a lot of tech companies offices closing or exiting, and the whole scene of startups and scale ups are not so dynamic as USA and if you go to pitchbook/Crunchbase you will see tons of “startups from 2011” with overhead/org bloat with last round in 2020/21.

If I was employed in some company in Central Europe, I would not bet my livelihood in any kind of job stability that is sold in the region by work council or regulations that can be easily hoped.

firstplacelast• 2 years ago

Hopefully next time the tech market is in an upswing, we can unionize?

avidiax• 2 years ago

Now would be the time to unionize. Nobody wants to join a union during a hot market. It's easier to negotiate for yourself at a new job.

earthwalker99• 2 years ago

Now would be the time to unionize.

As someone who actually knows something about unions and their history, it literally never works that way. OP is correct. You can't make moves when you don't have power.

Nobody wants to join a union during a hot market.

That's what has to change. I'm not saying it will change, but it's the only way. If your union is dependent on temporary conditions, it's weak. Weak unions are usually worse than no union at all. There are no shortcuts.

qwertyuiop_• 2 years ago

What do you think is stopping tech employees from unionizing?

atonse2• 2 years ago

Genuine question, what are some of the grievances for tech people that we could only solve with collective bargaining?

coldbrewed• 2 years ago

Reasonable working hours where employees aren't pressured to work more than 40 hours per week, actual PTO rather than "unlimited time off," limits to on-call rotations, protection against layoffs masquerading as PIPs, reasonable release schedules, protections that prevent junior engineers from getting screwed on salary, etc cetera. While all of these things don't strictly require a union, all of these things become much easier when there's a unified front advocating for change rather than individual engineers trying to advocate for change with their managers.

bdcravens4• 2 years ago

I don't see how unionization can work with pretty much no authority. You don't need a license or even a college degree to write code. The workforce is distributed. In many cases, there wouldn't even be a picket line to block.

If anything, it'd have to be a series of smaller, focused unions (say, infrastructure engineers, akin to pilots unions)

TeckPerspecc• 2 years ago

Sounds like it’s time to cancel the H1B visa.

bdcravens4• 2 years ago

How is that related to the article?

In theory, no matter what the job market, companies will have the need for talent unavailable locally (of course the H1B is abused, but that's the stated purpose)

If you're implying that eliminating H1Bs would shoot wages upward, I don't believe that would happen.

Dig1t• 2 years ago

It would, immigration in all forms directly affects labor supply, which affects wages. There’s a reason that basically every single CEO is pro-immigration.

lumost2• 2 years ago

In Tech, H1B is commonly used for relatively generic SWE positions. It could be argued that there is a shortage - or it could be argued that employers prefer Visa holders due to additional control they get from employing a Visa holder.

If the local workforce doesn't feel like they can get ahead... they will grow disgruntled. Targeting Visa and other immigration programs is something that they perceive they can control more so than changing employer attitudes. The same pattern can be observed in Canada.

If I have to spend ~3500 per month to own a home within an hour of downtown. Then I need a take-home pay of 168k/year which is roughly 268k/year pre-tax. The number of positions which actually pay 268k/year is already small.

tamimio2• 2 years ago

It never was otherwise, WFH was the only thing that shifted little of these cards to the employees, you might didn’t get a high salary but you saved on commute/rent/etc., and yet, they fought tooth and nail to end it, job market in the US is a modern slavery, which should be obvious with a country that has no minimum days mandates for an annual vacation or getting fired to form a union.

webninja2• 2 years ago

It will always be that case so long as an employee can hold only one full time job and yet an employer can diversify amongst many employees.

toomuchtodo3• 2 years ago

I wasn't a union supporter until I realized it was the only way to tilt the power balance, once you have built a mental model of current state.

I don't need a union, as I do not require an income, but my fellow human does, so onward. You only need majorities to arrive at outcomes.

lurking15• 2 years ago

job market in the US is a modern slavery

seems despicable to invoke slavery for people nowadays who get paid as free people

rcbdev2• 2 years ago

In my country 98% of all workers are under union contracts - this has always just been a fact of my working life and I never knew how different it could be in other places until rather recently.

The lack of unionization and mandatory PTO in the US is the most foreign concept imaginable.

gamblor9562• 2 years ago

Needing to go into the office is not slavery. It's disgusting to liken the literal ownership of a human being as property to be used and abused 24/7 to having to commute to a nice, air-conditioned office a few days a week.

tamimio2• 2 years ago

You are making a strawman argument, WFH and commuting is only the tip of it, not a comparison. Modern work is a form of slavery, and it is worse than the traditional one. In the past, a slave who changed owners would be free from the influence of the previous one. But now, you still have to please (aka kiss their arses) your former bosses so they won’t ruin your future references. Slavery means having no freewill, whether you are bound by physical chains or by financial obligations. You have no choice but to accept these burdens, or you will never have access to quality education, health care, schooling for your children, or even a house or a car. Do you know what is disgusting? Wasting your life until you are 65 years old to finally “own” a 40x40ft house that is made of wood and cardboard and was built in a few months. A house that you still have to pay taxes on, even though you “own” it, or it will be taken away from you. What is disgusting is that you - not necessarily you personally, but most likely - cannot survive more than a month, or a few months at best, without being a slave to one, a one that will be gladly to replace you in a week after wasting your youth, family, relationships, etc. The only free will you have is what kind of coffee to drink and what podcast to listen to before you go there

downrightmike3• 2 years ago

Corporate profits are just unpaid wages.

webninja2• 2 years ago

Interesting perspective. They’re instead paid to my retirement investment account and Uncle Sam.

downrightmike3• 2 years ago

Not really, especially if they are left in offshore tax evasion accounts

toomuchtodo3• 2 years ago

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/02/08/case-against...

The federal government should stop subsidizing pre-tax contributions to retirement savings accounts, two economists from opposing ideological camps argued in a research brief in January.
Allowing people to shelter their retirement money from taxes is a policy that largely favors the well-heeled, they said. Congress could use that money, nearly $200 billion a year in lost tax dollars, to shore up the underfunded Social Security program.

People supporting these accounts will put forth "personal responsibility," but the evidence shows that most Americans can't afford to get exposure to the capital markets due to wage stagnation and whatnot, so it's theater vs a real solution. It works for the lucky ones, but most people aren't lucky. Good policy isn't built on luck.

'Employers hold the cards now' as power shifts in US jobs market

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