High coffee consumption, brain volume and risk of dementia and stroke

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1028415X.2021.1945858

by robg • 2 years ago

109 122 2 years ago

nabla9• 2 years ago

The article is not claiming causal link, but this is still interesting.

After full covariate adjustment, consumption of >6 cups/day was associated with 53% higher odds of dementia compared to consumption of 1–2 cups/day

Coffee is stimulant just like some Alzheimer medications used to treat symptoms. It would be interesting to see if people increase coffee consumption with cognitive decline.

llamaLord• 2 years ago

Considering the very early effects of dementia start to impact people sometimes decades before it becomes bad enough that they are diagnosed, it's certainly possible that extreme coffee consumption is some kind of self-medication mechanism.

Anecdotally, I've seen this a lot with adults with undiagnosed ADHD (including myself until 26). Caffeine can be a (very shitty) alternative to proper stimulant medication that people don't realise they actually need because of a medical issue. So the end up drinking 4-5 coffees a day instead.

doubled1125• 2 years ago

I've been accused of self medicating with coffee before by a guy who was diagnosed with ADHD in his 40s.

It was funny at first, but then he started pointing things out. Want to ride bikes? We can get coffee on our travels.

I jest, kind of.

whizzter• 2 years ago

Not far fetched at all, seems there's been studies showing a correlation between ADHD and Dementia between genrations. A big question for me is if the ADHD was always even in the older generations there but was non-diagnosed?

https://news.ki.se/link-between-adhd-and-dementia-across-gen...

terramoto• 2 years ago

Wasnt this study made in the UK where most people lack vitamin D, which is also associated with dementia and depression?

lawlessone• 2 years ago

alternative to proper stimulant medication

Nicotine will do it too.

Nicotine is a lot harder to stop though.

datavirtue3• 2 years ago

I drink two cups a day, but I must have them. Self medication. I can't imagine five cups, I wouldn't have time to fit them in. Perhaps I'm a lite-weight.

philipov• 2 years ago

extreme coffee consumption is used to self-medicate ADHD symptoms as well.

yaomingite• 2 years ago

Anecdotally, I've seen this a lot with adults with undiagnosed ADHD (including myself until 26). Caffeine can be a (very shitty) alternative to proper stimulant medication that people don't realise they actually need because of a medical issue. So the end up drinking 4-5 coffees a day instead.

ADHD medication is among the hardest to get in the first place, and to maintain in many places.

I was diagnosed as a child, and still couldn't get regular medication until 3 years ago (I'm 37 now). Doctors will try to push off-label treatments, often SSRIs, which do nothing for ADHD. They will push people to try ineffective talk therapy and describe actual medication as "only a last resort".

My cousin can't get it because his insurance says you only have ADHD if you were diagnosed as a child, and he spent his childhood in another country where the roads were barely maintained.

ADHD meds reduce the chances someone will abuse drugs according to research, but many docs will cancel prescriptions if you are honest about cannabis use.

In the wake of the opiate scandal new restrictions also place limits on how much a pharmacy can dispense, even if everyone has a valid prescription. That's part of the reason for the medication shortages in some areas.

It's been a miracle medication for me, but if you don't have money and luck it can be next to impossible to find someone to help you. Those that do often require thousands in fees.

lr4444lr• 2 years ago

I'm wagering that these people are just chronically under-slept, using higher amounts of coffee to compensate. The link between chronic poor sleep and dementia is well established.

hiq• 2 years ago

Doesn't coffee impact sleep quality as well? At 6 cups a day, I'd expect some caffeine left in the body when sleeping.

ViktorRay2• 2 years ago

Caffeine consumption does lead to poor sleep.

Makes sense then that lots of coffee would lead to many nights of low quality sleep thereby increasing the risk of all sorts of bad health outcomes

daniel_reetz• 2 years ago

That is interesting. I wonder if it's simply the cadmium and lead found in coffee concentrate in heavy users.

eurleif• 2 years ago

Another potential causal mechanism might be that people in cognitive decline have their "daily cup of coffee", forget they've already had it, and then have another.

dusted• 2 years ago

I was thinking the same, it's very interesting which way the arrow points.

Am I saying that because I drink an enormous amount of coffee and really don't want to stop? Yes.

But also.. because I hope my high coffee drinking is because of my vanishing brain, rather than the cause of it ;)

m463• 2 years ago

I've also read, several places, that sleep deprivation correlates very highly with alzheimers.

People with trouble sleeping tend to be people with trouble staying awake.

And those people generally reach for coffee.

there's also the reverse, coffee interfering with sleep as well.

EDIT: add a link:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/sleep-well-and-reduce-yo...

greesil• 2 years ago

Caffeine does raise blood pressure. You also drink more of you don't sleep enough. Who knows.

nomel• 2 years ago

And, it significantly disrupts sleep if you drink it 6 hours before bedtime [1]. Poor sleep is linked to dementia [2] risk.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3805807/#:~:tex....

[2] https://www.harvardpilgrim.org/hapiguide/understanding-the-c....

owlstuffing• 2 years ago

consumption of >6 cups/day was associated with 53% higher odds of dementia compared to consumption of 1–2 cups/day (fully adjusted OR 1.53, 95% CI 1.28, 1.83)

6+ cups! That’s a cranial marinade.

doubled1125• 2 years ago

My mom, both of my sisters and I drink it by the pot. Each of us, every day.

6 cups? That doesn't sound like enough coffee to me.

op00to5• 2 years ago

I can’t even drink a single cup of coffee without shaking and getting intense anxiety.

PH95VuimJjqBqy• 2 years ago

6 cups are scrub numbers, if you haven't done that by 10am you're behind the curve :P

FirmwareBurner2• 2 years ago

My mom, both of my sisters and I drink it by the pot. Each of us, every day.

Can I ask how's your sleep?

op00to5• 2 years ago

That’s like a little more than 2 venti Starbucks.

FirmwareBurner2• 2 years ago

more than 2 venti

Americans will do anything to not use the metric system :)

Kirby645• 2 years ago

The scientific definition of a 'cup' of coffee is important. Usually this is defined as 4 ounces of brewed coffee, which means a normal mug of coffee (which can fit something like 10 oz) would be 2.5 cups!

So, for most people's definition of a 'cup' of coffee, they really only mean 2.5 'mugs' of coffee.

OJFord2• 2 years ago

And surely the amount of water is inconsequential, why can't we just use grams of actual coffee? Then we don't have to worry about how many espressos are in a 10oz mug. (Nevermind what that person's considering a standard dose for the espresso!)

porknubbins• 2 years ago

True but I think the coffee machine definition of 4-5oz per coffee “cup” usually also assumes a stronger European strength of coffee which is quite concentrated. Most Americans seem to make coffee larger but more watered down, so it could be back to a 10oz mug is 1 or 1.5 cup equivalents.

elzbardico2• 2 years ago

Americans drink very watered coffee though compared to most of the rest of the world. For us that came from abroad, it is basically tea.

troydavis2• 2 years ago

This survey is using self-assessed cups - without providing a cup size or any guidance. Specifically, a survey asks users "How many cups of coffee do you drink a day?" with no other context.

So, "cups" for this study is whatever the respondent considers a cup. For most people, that's going to be at least 8 ounces and probably 8-12 oz.

From the full text (https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/1...), here's how the intake is described:

Habitual coffee intake was self-reported as cups per day, as part of the touchscreen questionnaire at baseline with the question “How many cups of coffee do you drink a day?” (38). Participants were asked to include decaffeinated (decaf) coffee intake in their response. Decaffeinated consumers were identified from response to the question “What type of coffee do you usually drink?”. Coffee consumption was grouped in seven categories, including non- drinkers, decaffeinated coffee drinkers, and caffeinated coffee drinkers consuming <1 cup/day, 1-2 cups/day, 3-4 cups/day, 5-6 cups/day and >6 cups/day. “Coffee drinkers” in the text refer to participants who report intake of caffeinated coffee. For sensitivity analyses we constructed separate indicators restricting the data to decaffeinated coffee drinkers and according to tea consumption, using intake categories as above"

lp4vn• 2 years ago

I used to drink one liter of coffee a day, and I would prepare it in a measured cup by the way so it's not an exaggeration.

Jcampuzano2• 2 years ago

I used to drink along the lines of this much coffee or more. I was travelling very often and often working 12+ hour days for weeks on end. I look back on those days and just thinking about it reminds me of my constantly tweaking eyes, lack of sleep, constant hyperactivity, anxiousness, stress etc.

I stopped cold turkey for a while but nowadays have settled on more like 1-2 a day and never after a specific time of day (for me I hard stop at 3pm). Having any more than this or after this time kills my sleep immediately.

SOLAR_FIELDS• 2 years ago

Decaf is something I’ve really started to enjoy over the last couple of years. I’ll have one mug of actual coffee in the morning to start my day and then anywhere from 1-3 mugs of decaf. Back in the day it was not an equivalent option due to the chemical extraction process making it taste inferior. Now with water processed beans being offered with my local roaster it’s just about the same level of taste

euroderf• 2 years ago

Great album title, Cranial Marinade.

TyrianPurple• 2 years ago

Coffee & Tea are both stimulants. So I wouldn't be wrong by coming to the same conclusion about tea drinkers. Guess my cranium has been marinated real good.

nancyp• 2 years ago

Fun aside note: To read their privacy policy, you have to agree to their privacy policy.

mattigames• 2 years ago

The anger caused by such idiocy incrases the risk of headaches and strokes.

flgstnd• 2 years ago

for the sake of health i recommend browsing the interweb not without ublock origin and annoyances filterlists enabled.

paulddraper• 2 years ago

Not exactly.

To read their Privacy Policy, you need to agree to their Cookie Policy. To read their Cookie Policy, you don't need to agree to anything.

elmolino89• 2 years ago

They drunk too much coffee apparently.

sgt101• 2 years ago

The lack of a result for stroke tells me that this is just a fishing expedition.

mwigdahl• 2 years ago

It would be interesting to see comparisons to tea and decaf coffee, correcting for the amount of caffeine in those beverages. They seem to be assuming caffeine is the causal agent here, in which case there should be detectable parallels with other caffeinated beverages.

touwer• 2 years ago

A cup of coffee can be something very different from person to person and situation to situation.

Espresso? Weak americano? Strong? And then even: there is often more caffeine in a cup of filter coffee than in an espresso. Weird but true. So it differs quite a lot what you drink.

I know someone who drinks 15 cups a day, but they are very very weak. And another drank 20 stong ones a day. Myself I used to drink 10 easily, not anymore

neither_color• 2 years ago

Even the same volume(cup) of coffee brewed the exact same way will vary in caffeine content based on whether it's a light or a dark roast. I wish more studies like this would just list mg of caffeine for comparison instead.

ACV001• 2 years ago

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--- About the subject, could be indeed that people with early dementia, have sleep deprivation so they need more coffee...

jxy• 2 years ago

I can't access the article. Can somebody tell me what is "a cup" mentioned in the article? How much water and how much caffeine is in one "cup" in this article?

All the comments here mentions different number of "cups", but I'm very worried that all are different "cups"

Mathnerd314• 2 years ago

I've looked for this, the BioBank screen is this: https://biobank.ndph.ox.ac.uk/showcase/refer.cgi?id=100319 There is literally no guidance AFAICT. My best estimate is 8 US fl oz as per ChatGPT British still use cups to refer to that sometimes. And caffeine... it varies even from cup to cup, the estimate of 91mg per 8 oz cup is what I use.

Kirby645• 2 years ago

Per the article, "Habitual coffee intake was self-reported as cups per day, as part of the touchscreen questionnaire at base line with the question ‘How many cups of coffee do you drink a day?’ "

Sounds like it's based on the colloquial definition, which means... who knows! Self-reported values are very non-specific, since my definition of a 'cup' could mean a 24oz with an added triple shot... or it could mean a weakly brewed cup of instant coffee.

metaphor• 2 years ago

Sci-Hub link[1] to the paper.

I think it's safe to conclude that a cup here is in UK terms:

Individuals aged 37–73 years were recruited in 22 assessment centres across the United Kingdom, between 13 March 2006 and 1 October 2010.

[1] https://sci-hub.se/10.1080/1028415X.2021.1945858

drtournier• 2 years ago

Coffee and tobacco consumption is a known correlation (one of many refs https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4158991/). Curious to see if authors considered that, as tobacco is one of the main aggressors of vascular tissue, which causes dementia in the long run.

EDIT 1: Just in time, UK Biobank (almost 500.000 people) study pointing to increased longevity with coffee consumers, an interesting controversy that just doesn't fit with their smaller study conclusion (although overall longevity is a different outcome, you would expect to find more dementia in older people) https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/coffee-lo...

hattmall3• 2 years ago

Is it to tobacco because of nicotine? Or would things like nicotine gum and lozenges not count. I thought I recalled nicotine potentially being neuroprotective wrt dementia.

everdrive2• 2 years ago

Is this just related to caffeine, or coffee in general? I drink a LOT of decaf, which probably ends up being 2-4 cups of "real" coffee.

ChrisLTD• 2 years ago

Decaf has less than 10% the caffeine of regular coffee, if I recall correctly. Are you drinking 20 cups of decaf a day?

everdrive2• 2 years ago

I'm not sure. I have 2-4 of those standard re-usable "to-go" mugs day. Which is probably (hopefully) less than 20!

JonChesterfield2• 2 years ago

Stupid publishing model from the dark ages https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/1...

2OEH8eoCRo02• 2 years ago

Could coffee be a proxy for a high-stress, mentally-taxing, low-sleep-quality lifestyle? How did they take their coffee? With lots of sugar?

nunez• 2 years ago

I switched over to fully decaf coffee earlier this year.

One of the coffee roasters nearby me highlighted their decaf single origin and thought to try it on a whim one day. It was so good, I stopped drinking decaf coffee that day and bought three bags of the stuff.

It's been two months since I did this. The biggest benefit I've noticed was feeling how insanely tired I am. Fortunately, I've been working on that problem, but damn, coffee really covers up sleep deprivation well.

zingelshuher• 2 years ago

I switched over to fully decaf coffee earlier this year.

You may want to rethink.

The association between coffee consumption and dementia was..
with evidence for higher odds for non-coffee and decaffeinated coffee drinkers and those drinking >6 cups/day, compared to light coffee drinkers.

robg• 2 years ago

Not controlled for: Heavy caffeine consumption affects sleep, and sleep quality is correlated with cognitive declines.

adamredwoods• 2 years ago

More and more of these "studies" are popping up, using the UK health database to make hypothesis to what we eat or drink, without really diving into the "why".

I know it's a nice first step for more thorough research proposals, but I think they tend to freak people out.

cjbenedikt• 2 years ago

Just had another coffee...darn, forgot what I wanted to write ;-)

b0dhimind• 2 years ago

Still experimenting with about ~20mg of coffee every other day. Great as part of my pre-workout (as indicated by Huberman's podcast) especially with fats. If I don't add the fats, I definitely feel the edginess and jitteriness...

I don't really need it though, wondering if I'm better off just avoiding it? Heard of many other longevity and neural benefits... something I was expecting in this pretty empty study. Self-experimenting continues...

hattmall3• 2 years ago

Well even this study shows reduced risk with moderate consumption compared to the 0 or the 6+ group.

mantra23• 2 years ago

I drink about 8-10 cups of black coffee a day, which is what my brewer makes.

I don’t have any issues with sleep but I don’t feel any sort of boost from it, I just enjoy the way it tastes.

I’m curious how consistent this can be seeing as coffee can be made so differently. I know the coffee I make at home is incredibly weak compared to what you’d get at a cafe. I use about 2-3 tablespoons of freshly ground beans for those 10 cups. Starbucks tastes like they use double that for a cup.

I can’t imagine I consumed that much coffee despite the large number of “cups”.

dewert• 2 years ago

Sorry, I have to get clarification - do you use 2-3 tbsp per cup, as in 20-30 tbsp for the pot, or 2-3 tbsp for the whole pot? The one sounds like normal coffee, while the other would almost be water in my books.

mantra23• 2 years ago

I use 2-3, maybe 4 for the 8 cup brewer. I drink it weak. lol

notaharvardmba• 2 years ago

“Cups” as in “coffee maker cups”, ~4oz per “cup”, vs cups as in measuring cups (8 oz)

mantra23• 2 years ago

1.3 Liters, so I guess they’re considering a cup in my 8 cup brewer as 5oz.

NoPedantsThanks• 2 years ago

So the takeaway is that more than zero but fewer than six cups is better than none or greater than six cups?

We need to know whether this means real cups for the bullshit "cups" commonly used to measure coffee were used in the study.

lawgimenez• 2 years ago

Just had Death Wish coffee for the first time. This is gonna be interesting.

Arch-TK• 2 years ago

So my habit of putting in a lot of effort to prepare 1 or 2 cups of coffee per day puts me at the local minima for risk of dementia and stroke?

Excellent.

Now, while gloating about how this study matches up with my own biases, I would like to take a moment to remind everyone:

This is a single study, ignore it, wait for a meta analysis and then ask your local expert in that specific field to interpret it for you. Or, better yet, wait for a book covering a number of meta-analyses.

Single studies are not helpful for general consumption!!!

benjijay• 2 years ago

Should I consume 1-2 meta-analyses per day, and is there any risk associated if that number increases to 5+?

Teamancer• 2 years ago

Did a Find on the word "exercise" in the article and comments. Result: Not Found.

troydavis2• 2 years ago

Full text: https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/1...

High coffee consumption, brain volume and risk of dementia and stroke

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