The "Me, Too" Startup Syndrome

http://funtrepreneur.tumblr.com/post/22201264260/the-me-too-startup-syndrome

by designhacker • 14 years ago

103 63 14 years ago

funtrepreneur.tumblr.com

pazimzadeh• 14 years ago

I mostly agree with you; however, you do realize that your blog is called "Funtrepreneur," right?

jack-r-abbit11• 14 years ago

I don't see a problem with the name of his blog... putting the fun in entrepreneur. It does appear to be the first post but maybe I'm not familiar with how Tumblr works.

mjn• 14 years ago

If funtrepreneurship doesn't work out, there's always the more time-tested consulting version, the funsultant. Or, when all other options fail, the default, funemployment...

(Yes, these are all actual words people use, though for different things. Punning on "fun" seems irresistible. With apologies for the self-link, more on the 2nd one: http://www.kmjn.org/notes/funsultants_and_gamification.html)

dm8• 14 years ago

Another issue I see is people are not afraid at all due to easy availability of capital. Although, entrepreneur can be considered as fearless (at least when it comes to failure). But he/she always lives in fear. Be it competitors, running out of money, employees quitting, not able to hire, etc. At least, I live in fear all the time.

AVTizzle4• 14 years ago

There's a subtle, rather meta feeling I can't shake when I read "cautionary" blog posts like these. It's the feeling that maybe the author isn't writing it for anyone else's benefit as much as their own. Like the author writes to reinforce that, unlike said "friend" who's making all these cautionary mistakes, they themselves are in it for all the right reasons.

Every time the author makes a, "he" statement, you can just perceive a subtle, "but not me." The faintest signal for both the reader, and for himself. Here's what I read:

- "I let a long sigh." (Because I know better).

- "My friend wasn’t someone I’d call 'entrepreneurial'" (...but I am).

- "He wasn’t doing it because he enjoyed the process of starting and growing a company." (But I am).

- "But building a company requires a lot more than writing code." (All things I'm far more capable of).

- "He’s lived in Silicon Valley long enough, and that’s what people around him are doing." (Me? I'm an island).

Who is the author to make this judgement? Why do you need to fit some mold in order to participate in the exclusive club, without criticism from the author? And who gets to determine what that mold is?

frisco• 14 years ago

I agree with you that it's not for anyone, other than the man in the arena, to determine whether someone belongs in a startup or not. At the same time, I strongly agree with the observations made by OP. The social pressure is strong in the valley: all people talk about are startups. Its perceived to be easy to work for a year or two with a couple smart friends and get bought by Facebook or Google. Zuck bragged at SUS two years ago that (a) every CEO they'd acquired was still working at Facebook and (b) they'd shut down every product they'd acquired. Many people aren't "in it" to build great companies. That's just how Silicon Valley works. On the other hand, many of the best companies are highly product focused and driven by a desire to do something more. Most people on both ends of the spectrum will fail. Perhaps this is correlated to the underlying motivations, but I don't think anyone has data on that (probably because it's ill-defined). It may be wrong to moralize about this dichotomy, but it's certainly there.

AVTizzle4• 14 years ago

Of course it's there. We're human - we're all subject to circumstance and surroundings. We can't say with certainty that we would be doing tech startups if we were born in another time or another place (ie your lack of data - I agree). So where do you draw the line?

The issue I take with this type of writing is that, at best, it's pointless. And at its worst, it's desctuctive.

Pointless - It's not fact based. It presents no new, compelling ideas. It's not helpful for practical purposes, or optimistic for inspirational ones. What's the point? Why was it written? (For the authors sake, I think.)

Destructive - It draws lines and separates classes, the higher of which the author subtly places himself in while condescending the hopeless "friend". Where would we be on our own startup journeys if our "friends" were so (not) supportive?

And this, by the way, is where someone gets to call me and my comments out for being super hypocritical ;) </irony>

jack-r-abbit11• 14 years ago

I didn't think that when I read it but I can see where one could think that. I do think he's got a point about the "me, too" start up bandwagon that appears to be growing. I would not try to discourage anyone from giving it a go as long as they are being smart about it. I would if/when the time was right.

AVTizzle4• 14 years ago

"I would not try to discourage anyone from giving it a go"

That's the ticket right there.

When friends and friends-of-friends have expressed a curiosity into startups, I treat them with the same respect I would hope for. Very clear - forceful even - about the risks and challenges of entrepreneurship, and very, very critical about ideas (but always with the "...but who am I?" disclaimer). But overall, I try and default to being supportive and encouraging.

It's not charity either. There are absolutely selfish benefits behind being supportive. Like Guy Kawasaki or Keith Ferrazzi would point out - the more helpful you are, the more valuable your network. It's impossible to quantify, but being supportive early on is just the best thing for everyone involved.

rhizome• 14 years ago

I think the word you're looking for is "patronizing," with the implied title actually being "Them (or You) too?"

arkitaip• 14 years ago

Exactly. Also, the idea that you have to have higher ideals to become an entrepreneur is laughable at best. It's about business, not self realization. If anything, this piece made me sympathize with the friend who approaches YC with irreverence and gusto instead of fear and angst of not doing a startup for the "right" reasons.

AVTizzle4• 14 years ago

Exactly. Good way to put it.

nostromo• 14 years ago

Anyone who has been through an incubator has probably heard this line:

"Most of your companies will fail. And now that I've said that, you're all feeling sorry for everyone else in the room."

Honestly, I encourage my friends to take risks and try new things, even if I have inner doubts about their ability to pull it off. I do so because I think that trying something really, really hard improves you skill set -- even if you end up failing.

If a friend said, "I'm going to try and get into the Olympics!" would you tell them all the ways they're likely to fail? Or would you encourage them to try and achieve a dream? The key is not understating the risks; be both encouraging and honest.

rdl2• 14 years ago

I have never heard the line "most of your companies will fail" from anyone I know of in Y Combinator. Mostly because "fail" isn't really well defined -- even a mediocre startup is usually more interesting than a boring job. Even founding the next Instagram might be a failure for someone who really cares about medicine or space.

tomkin2• 14 years ago

The main over-arching point is perfectly palatable, but the probing element ("That’s not what I meant. I know YC is a great place. But why do YOU want to get in?") in the post comes off as passive-agressive.

nateberkopec• 14 years ago

Minor observation - the last line about YCombinator being "the best place to start a company" seemed a little weird. As a percentage, how many of the recent "startup success stories" have been started at YCombinator and how many haven't?

chpolk• 14 years ago

I definitely agree, it is a lot easier to fill out an application than to rally around an idea and begin creating a great product. I think it's definitely worth doing some self examination before deciding you are ready to do a startup and understanding the reality of your situation.

jack-r-abbit11• 14 years ago

I've been thinking the same things lately. Referring to what ever coding project happens to be filling your spare time as your "start up" seems to be what all the cool kids are doing these days.

angersock• 14 years ago

Regardless of the strengths or weaknesses of this article, the scansion of his/her opening poetry bothers me.

In the spirit of hacking, I've tried to improve it (and please help me if I've done this wrong or poorly!):

    Twas the Y-Comb deadline eve, when all through the valley
    All the hackers were stirring (it's a big night for Cali!).

    Scores of applications were POST'ed with care
    In hopes they'd be found by Paul Graham to be fair.

    And many a partner slumbered softly in bed,
    while visions of A-rounds flooded their SO's heads.

    Quite out of the blue my iPhone did ring:
    an old friend to a bar for a convo I'd bring!

squarecat3• 14 years ago

Aaaand cue "Sexist!" outcries...

squarecat3• 14 years ago

Really??

Doesn't "...And a few girlfriends slept alone in their beds, While visions of exits danced in their boyfriends’ heads..." operate on the same presumption that has resulted in a number of others getting their asses handed to them recently?

jack-r-abbit11• 14 years ago

Can't we just be glad that we're no longer looked at as "dorky programmers that can't even get a mate" and just move on? Why kick the hornet's nest?

MisterBastahrd• 14 years ago

Everytime I read a post like this, all I hear is "please don't compete with me."

aydoubleyou• 14 years ago

San Francisco in a nutshell.

gravitronic• 14 years ago

Some advice I try to live by is to ignore others and just do "you".

So, don't worry about whether or not your friend is starting a business for the right reasons. He'll figure it out.

Your productivity will increase when you focus on your own goals instead of others.

AdamFernandez• 14 years ago

I don't know if the author was trying to express this particular sentiment, but I am concerned by a general theme that I have noticed in articles I have been reading on HN lately.

1. We are in a bubble, because all these 'useless' startups are getting funding when they should not be (debatable on many levels).

2. Too many startups are focusing on areas that are over like 'Social'.

3. Some people just aren't good enough or cut out for this, so they should avoid it, and let the ones with a specific set of 'opinions' create startups.

My advise to anyone also sensing this theme and turning away from creating a startup is this:

Do it for whatever reason you want!

If you want to make a great product, and love hacking, awesome! Go for it!

If you want to get rich and jump in, awesome! Go for it!

There are no guarantees in life about whether anyone will succeed, but there is also not infinite time to wonder what might have been. Even if 90% of these ventures fail, there will still be more great products and opportunities for everyone. Because that crazy 10% wasn't deterred by someone else telling them what should and shouldn't be. Cautionary tales help to educate, but don't be discouraged by anyone if you really want to do it.

EricDeb• 14 years ago

This is absolutely true. People are prone to think that if you start a company and it is "for the wrong reasons," three years later you will be bankrupt and want to kill yourself.

Likely, if you start a company for the wrong reasons, you will find out very quickly and will quit within a couple months. You will pursue more standard forms of employment and be FAR happier about it.

I say, if you want to start a company for whatever reason... do it!

tomkin2• 14 years ago

> Too many startups are focusing on areas that are over like 'Social'.

See, I like to think of a startup as any other brick and mortar business. If it manages to leap into a world-wide success, nothing wrong with that - but don't expect it. Have a game plan that focuses on the reality around you. A startup isn't always a Facebook or Instagram (although they were too, at a point). It's okay to build an online business and just make $60-120 k/year - you know, like any other B&M business owner. To me a "startup" is simply described as a scaleable model that employs technology intelligently with modern-day principals of delegation, pivoting & management.

I always get confused about exit strategy. To some it means here's what happens when/if I bail.... To others it seems to mean this is where I'll be a billionaire and.... Both are bunk to someone who is passionately building a product or service that they love.

cube13• 14 years ago

>See, I like to think of a startup as any other brick and mortar business. If it manages to leap into a world-wide success, nothing wrong with that - but don't expect it. Have a game plan that focuses on the reality around you. A startup isn't always a Facebook or Instagram (although they were too, at a point). It's okay to build an online business and just make $60-120 k/year - you know, like any other B&M business owner. To me a "startup" is simply described as a scaleable model that employs technology intelligently with modern-day principals of delegation, pivoting & management.

The problem is that a lot of startups don't seem to have any plan in place to actually get to the point where they're actually making money on their own. The B&M store comparison is pretty apt here. You don't start a corner convenience store in the hopes that 7-Eleven will come up and buy you. You start the store because there isn't a store there, in the hope that enough people will come and buy stuff that you can make a profit.

That's where a lot of the worry is, I think. Especially because we're seeing a huge amount of VC funding going towards startups that are almost purely pinned on getting snapped up by a bigger company. Instagram is a great example of this. They have a product that has the majority of the current midshare in it's space, has millions of users, is a very cool application on both a technical usability level... and approximately $0 in incoming revenue. And no plan to make money besides "Maybe get advertisers on the platform at some point in the future"(http://behindcompanies.com/2012/04/instagrams-business-model... )[1]. From an investment perspective, it was a very bad investment... until they sold out to Facebook, at which point it was a GREAT one.

I think that's the concern that TFA has. A lot of startups, by and large, have turned into R&D for large corporations rather than traditional entrepreneurial businesses. The concern isn't that people are creating a product that's sold. They're creating a product without any concern about how to make money with it, and are hoping that someone with deep pockets will snap them up. There's a time and place for both, but the second shouldn't be getting nearly as much money as the first.

[1]To be fair, I think that with 30 million users, Instagram would have a viable business model based on advertising, and certainly could have made a profit. The problem, though, is that I don't think that model would return anywhere near the amount that the $500MM valuation indicated. Certainly, it would be in the low tens of millions of dollars, but not in the hundreds.

manpreets7• 14 years ago

"There are no guarantees in life about whether anyone will succeed, but there is also not infinite time to wonder what might have been."

That line was the best part in your writeup.

larrys• 14 years ago

"- But why do you want to get into YC?

- Are you kidding? It’s an awesome opportunity: you get to mingle with smart people, work on something exciting, get funding and mentorship, investors will chase you to give you money, and you’re much more likely get acquired in the future.

- That’s not what I meant. I know YC is a great place. But why do YOU want to get in?"

"why do YOU want to get in?" The question was answered.

shantanubala• 14 years ago

Definitely. Mingling with smart people, working on something exciting, and getting mentorship are often ends in themselves and don't need any further justification.

wildmXranat• 14 years ago

Awesomepreneur in me says you should take that inner voice that makes you doubt because of public opinion out back and shoot it. Do what you need, to get the job done in whatever plan and stay focused. Most will fail, some will last but wounded, few will stick around and all of them will blog about it. Just focus on getting the job done, even if it's a local-centric social network for pets with sepia instagram avatars. Well, maybe I went too far, but keep focused on your own work, not others.

RedwoodCity• 14 years ago

Even if a startup fails helpfully everyone involved learned some lessons. I know people who have been founders or have worked in startups that didn't succeed, in-spite of that have gone on to do a variety of interesting things.

Companies fail for all sorts of reasons that are often well beyond their control. Being part of such a team is hardly the kiss of death provided you can explain what you did and what you learned.

You lose 100% of the games you never play. Go into it with your eyes open that more than likely you won't be the next instagram, but you will develop many skills can be broadly applied outside of starting a company. With the right attitude it doesn't matter if you strike it rich, because frequently good ideas(supersonic air travel, concord ) lose and a lot of seemingly bad ideas have made people wealthy(pet rocks).

xarien3• 14 years ago

Aside from all of the other possibly insulting remarks from the post, this particular one caught my eye:

"And a few girlfriends slept alone in their beds While visions of exits danced in their boyfriends’ heads"

I'm male, but let me tell you that the above statement infuriates me as it perpetuates the stereotype that women are not entrepreneurs. I'm sure I'm not the only one who believes that my better half would be wildly more successful than I would be if she had an inkling to do a startup.

To reiterate, this form of sexism needs to stop.

dkrich2• 14 years ago

> I'm male, but let me tell you that the above statement infuriates me as it perpetuates the stereotype that women are not entrepreneurs. I'm sure I'm not the only one who believes that my better half would be wildly more successful than I would be if she had an inkling to do a startup.

Can you spot the irony in this statement?

xarien3• 14 years ago

There is no irony because as I stated, "I'm sure I'm not the only one." This sentence conveys that in "some" not "all" cases women make better entrepreneurs.

Irony would only exist if I made a sweeping comment about all women being better as entrepreneurs, which I assure you, I did not make.

eli_gottlieb• 14 years ago

It infuriates me because it implies that I'm abandoning my fiancee for a start-up fantasy.

Katelyn2• 14 years ago

I'm not bothered by much as a female in tech (and believe me, I hear a lot of ignorant, sexist remarks), but this comment really rubbed me the wrong way.

misiti37802• 14 years ago

it was a joke

rdl2• 14 years ago

I am almost certain there are more gay male (and thus might have boyfriend) startup founders than female startup founders (who might also have boyfriends), too.

It's probably better to use something generic to represent the general case.

Quizzy• 14 years ago

I find nothing wrong with the "Me, Too" Startup Syndrome. I know plenty of friends who went to medical school because their parents were doctors, or it's the "Asian thing" to do, and they turned out to be decent doctors. Same for lawyers, accountants and gardners; a lot of "me too" happening outside of the startup world. Unlike 30 years ago, many more people want to go into technology because it's hip to be in a startup - hell, thanks to popular cinema (The Social Network) and mainstream technology (iOS/Android) geekie hobbies are now cool. People got mocked for playing with their Timex Sinclair in the early '80s, whereas today I have to sign up early in order to reserve my son a spot in the mobile game development bootcamp. Times are a changing, and the OP sounds like the indie college guy who's resentful that his secret band is now being followed by everybody.

Other "me too" activities: marriage, children, golf, smoking, religion, tantric sex... sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. All a part of life.

The "Me, Too" Startup Syndrome

Related Stories