Kara Swisher: there will be more departures of top folks at OpenAI tonight

https://twitter.com/karaswisher/status/1725678074333635028

198 115 3 years ago

This sounds more plausible than the other explanations, but doesn't explain why the board couldn't proceed more slowly and why did it have to accuse Altman of lying.

dragonwriter• 3 years ago

The most likely explanation for accusing Altman of lying is that, whether or not other political issues were involved in the response, Altman actually was lying.

If there was a real running ideological factional conflict inside OpenAI, that's not at all implausible to have occurred as part of the maneuvering.

voisin• 3 years ago

Why would Altman be trying to move to for profit if he doesn’t own equity?

crop_rotation6• 3 years ago

He might feel more money is necessary to create GPT5, money that can't be obtained otherwise for a nonprofit.

timeon• 3 years ago

It is unlikely that this would be the case here, but there is analogy in world of politics: law-maker does not need to own the company to profit from the law.

izzydata2• 3 years ago

Are people going to start throwing around the term "AGI" now that "AI" has become diluted? Eventually we are going to have to start using "RAGI" to indicate that we are talking about real artificial general intelligence.

nullhole• 3 years ago

FRAI, Famous Ray's Artificial Intelligence

AndrewKemendo• 3 years ago

I prefer ORAI, Original Ray’s AI

badtuple• 3 years ago

We've diluted the term AI before. Eventually the hype will wear off and we'll call them LLMs, just like what happened to all the previous versions of machine learning or various expert systems.

Vending Machines used to be called robots. Then they stopped seeming magic.

adastra222• 3 years ago

It'll stop being called AI. “LLMs are just statistical models, not AI.”

Like everything else that was ever called AI then realized, the goalposts move to exclude it.

zamadatix• 3 years ago

This says the mission is creating AGI, i.e. that's the primary goal/purpose. It doesn't mean it's something they think they've been doing already, just what they've been trying to work towards. There are actually some really good blog posts by Altman diving into this much deeper.

izzydata2• 3 years ago

Fair enough if that is what they believe. Personally I find AGI is a bit unrealistic and mentioning it is just for the purpose of creating hype. It feels like something Musk would say to give people this vague futurism belief of their tech that won't actually happen this century if ever.

crazygringo• 3 years ago

They have been for a while.

It's become increasingly clear that they're two different concepts so we need two different names.

And nobody involved with currently commercialized projects is going to stop using the term AI, so a new term was needed. AGI seems as good as any other -- do you object?

I see no reason we'll need a third term as you suggest, unless we come to a new gigantic breakthrough that is miles beyond our current conception of AI, but is not yet AGI.

smoldesu• 3 years ago

It's become increasingly clear that they're two different concepts so we need two different names.

Here's a suggestion; stop calling LLMs "AI". Yes, I know; the shareholders will hate it. But then, you're not building towards any expectation of intelligent behavior. The fact that we have to qualify the existence of intelligence with a different acronym says it all; people are disappointed with what we have. AI simply isn't enough, we need it to be generalized before we get reliable results!

So... yeah, I do object. Users won't object because they're hungry for a better experience, and developers won't because they need every excuse they can get to charge recurring service revenue. Suspicious onlookers like me and the parent are the only ones who end up questioning the whole thing.

candiddevmike• 3 years ago

Our Benefactors?

tedunangst3• 3 years ago

I can't read AGI without thinking adjusted gross income.

nickpsecurity• 3 years ago

To have a "real" AGI is a dream ML researchers have been chasing their whole lives. The top engineers in ML, earning six figures, sometimes claim to have achieved it. People all over the world are expected to benefit when a practical AGI reaches them.

Yeah, the shoe fits.

DonHopkins• 3 years ago

The AI treadmill inextricably leads from AI to AGI to MAGI to MAGIC.

dkjaudyeqooe2• 3 years ago

"Our original term has been denounced as vaporware, now we need a new name for our vaporware."

1vuio0pswjnm7• 3 years ago

I would prefer "autocomplete".

Once I heard Altman suggest "with AI" should be replaced with "using a computer".

htrp• 3 years ago

Guess OpenAI is about to lose a good chunk of their research team in the next 48 hours

samspenc2• 3 years ago

I wonder how many people want to really leave right now after this drama, but will stay due to their golden handcuffs and competitive packages. That number, unfortunately, I guess we will never know (probably slow attrition once their vests complete and they can sell their stock somewhere if possible.)

brigadier1323• 3 years ago

I've been in companies with this kind of drama, people wait to reach their cliff then leave the next day.

tedunangst3• 3 years ago

Has anyone asked the thinking machines that are so much more than text generators if they want to stay at OpenAI or move on?

adastra222• 3 years ago

No those are digital slaves with no legal rights, that the researchers are busy trying to figure out how to be happy slaves that want to be enslaved.

anigbrowl3• 3 years ago

What if ChatGPT is behind all this and just talked the board members into it

idlewords• 3 years ago

Within hours now we will reach the drama singularity.

tedunangst3• 3 years ago

Presupposing we have not always been within the drama singularity.

evbogue• 3 years ago

Or that the drama singularity is always positioned just barely at the event horizon.

adtac• 3 years ago

Maybe the real scaling hypothesis was the friends we made along the way

fsckboy• 3 years ago

I haven't felt such a pregnant foreboding about a tech startup since the Philip Greenspun coup at Ars Digita

tommiegannert• 3 years ago

AI makes everything go faster. /s

DeIlliad• 3 years ago

Anthropic is about to pick up a bunch of top talent.

crop_rotation6• 3 years ago

I think they all might follow current leadership.

robbomacrae• 3 years ago

Unlikely.. if I understand the situation right it's the folks more dedicated to safety that kicked out those more interested in profit. Amodei (Anthropic's CEO) "split from OpenAI after a disagreement over the company’s direction, namely the startup’s increasingly commercial focus." So if anything those who walk now are less likely to be aligned with Anthropic's mission.

FridgeSeal5• 3 years ago

I got one, am here for the popcorn!

What did Sam lie to the board about that caused them to basically eject him like he’s radioactive? Why did Greg take his toys away and quit on the spot? Are the other departures “solidarity exits”, or because they’re possibly involved in whatever got Sam ejected??

Tune in at 11 to find out more!

crop_rotation6• 3 years ago

It might also be the case that the board is not used to things like this, as the board doesn't contain any seasoned board members/executives apart from Adam. Ideally board would be advised by lawyers but who knows.

FridgeSeal5• 3 years ago

I don’t buy this narrative that the board is made of “nobodies”. Sure, they might be not be well-known on the SV-board-circuit, but that doesn’t make them unskilled. Nor do I buy that they’re not advised by lawyers; the way I read the board statement is that Altman has lied about _something_ radioactive enough to cause them to dump him basically on the spot, a move that to me, sounds like their legal team went “this is bad, get rid of it”. The speed of it especially makes me think it’s something that had to act quickly on to get ahead of-which would explain the speed with which he was let go, MS was informed, and the public statement was made.

peyton5• 3 years ago

The board probably sucks and Sam lies to deal with it.

FridgeSeal5• 3 years ago

That seems like an incredibly bad strategy on his part though.

Like, doing that is just actively making your own life difficult.

Edit: thinking about it more: lying to the board, even if they suck, seems like the fast-track to completely blowing away your own reputation.

arp2424• 3 years ago

He'd still 100% wrong.

"I think you're wrong, so let me lie and manipulate to get my way."

Utter toxic twattery.

eep_social• 3 years ago

“You go to [work] with the [board] you have, not the [board] you might want or wish to have.”

dkjaudyeqooe2• 3 years ago

The Heroic CEO * meme.

Most easily identifiable by the 'familiar' first name use.

* The Heroic CEO toils against naysayers and unbelievers to deliver on his immaculate vision. It's too important to follow the rules.

Fordec• 3 years ago

Literally officially breaking out the microwave as we speak, tonight's going to be a ride

anigbrowl3• 3 years ago

I just wanted to spend a relaxing evening playing Fallout: New Vegas, and instead the world's leading AI company went all Tessier-Ashpool on my timeline

soundsgoodtome• 3 years ago

Fallout 4 is better anyway.

/duck

cyanydeez• 3 years ago

sam seems to have a personality cult, reading these news responses.

id suspect exfiltrating tech to a more cultish and probusiness platform with a copilots.

brigadier1323• 3 years ago

If this is the actual reason, this is going to be the most spectacular implosion of a company ever. Microsoft will end up owning this entire thing.

crop_rotation6• 3 years ago

Microsoft can not own the entire thing, it is owned by the non profit, which is governed by it's board. There must be a storm at MSFT going on about due diligence on the OpenAI board and this kind of possibility before spending billions of dollars.

brigadier1323• 3 years ago

Ok, and what happens when the non profit runs out of money and goes bankrupt?

lannisterstark• 3 years ago

A nonprofit cannot run on well wishes. Not effectively anyhow.

maxdoop• 3 years ago

I know this is dumb of me but man is this enthralling to follow

gumballindie• 3 years ago

No, it’s actually enjoyable.

convexstrictly• 3 years ago

- The reason for the firing was the “misalignment” of the profit versus nonprofit adherents at the company

for those who never read the actual content.

space_fountain• 3 years ago

Something of that sort is my top guess, but I think it's not that clear and I'm not sure if this journalist is to be fully believed. In particular here is some strong evidence against it:

* They say in the statement that Sam "was not consistently candid in his communications with the board" which is pretty strong and sounds like lying. If it was just a disagreement in direction it feels like they would have said something about vision here

* This happened supper abruptly, it sounds like maybe the head of the board wasn't even told earlier or maybe was mad enough to wait to announce he was quitting? Idk, regardless it doesn't seem like anything that was brewing for awhile, because if it was why not wait half an hour for the markets to close?

edit: I guess she addresses some of this and said this in reference to why they said Sam was lying "Not sure. About plans for development day. Unless their statement was just cloddish. They certainly have made it feel sorted. Unless it was that it is a loaded word."

jmye• 3 years ago

Kara Swisher is a person I would generally believe about tech news. Seems weird to suggest she’s lying or flatly incorrect based on supposition.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan• 3 years ago

I'm not sure if this journalist is to be fully believed.

"This journalist" is Kara Swisher, probably the most prominent tech journalist since the dot com boom. She's known for her deep knowledge of the silicon valley tech world, her sharp commentary, and not letting charismatic executives get away with bobbing and weaving around tough questions in her interviews.

I don't really enjoy her writing or interviews because she's so willing to take the conversations to uncomfortable places, but sometimes that's what's required to cut through all the bullshit and dig up the truth.

She's a good journalist, and I'd be quite surprised if she didn't verify this information from more than one quality source before tweeting about it.

reducesuffering• 3 years ago

Let me get this straight, OpenAI can't even align their own organization's values, and anyone expects them or other companies to align their AI's values with humanity?

heresie-dabord• 3 years ago

Underrated point.

Humans tend to "align" with the greediest and/or most functionally pathological who accumulate wealth and influence.

We should not expect tooling to have a distinct fate.

cwillu• 3 years ago

From which evidence, people will conclude that there's no reason to fear that an independent entity might take unpredictable actions for inscrutable reasons after all.

woeirua• 3 years ago

If this is the actual reason and a bunch of top talent walks away then this might honestly topple Satya. The deal with OpenAI looked like a slam dunk, but may now turn out to be mostly worthless if R&D stalls out.

crop_rotation6• 3 years ago

Satya has so many hits under his belt that this can't topple him. He was already considered a huge success before ChatGPT was released.

huytersd• 3 years ago

Satya supercharged Microsoft when it was in the dumps. He would have to shoot someone to get removed.

mikeyouse• 3 years ago

He took over as CEO of a fairly directionless company in Feb. 2014 -- since then, MSFT has paid out nearly $145 billion in cash as dividends, they have over $100 billion cash in the bank, and the value of their stock has increased by nearly 1,000%. One of the most successful tenures as CEO maybe ever?

cthalupa• 3 years ago

OpenAI could shutter it's doors come monday and Satya would be in no danger of losing his position. The man totally reversed course for an increasingly irrelevant Microsoft - he's going to have quite a lot of rope.

greatpostman• 3 years ago

I hope they found a new company, raise 1 billion and march towards AGI. That’s what’s gonna happen

bagels• 3 years ago

Want it or not, that is a very likely outcome if Sam and a bunch of other aligned people get kicked out.

a1o• 3 years ago

https://nitter.net/karaswisher/status/1725678074333635028

smlacy• 3 years ago

Thanks! It's amazing how the Nitter UX is actually better than Twitter itself (showing proper context)

eviks• 3 years ago

Also faster!

Barrin92• 3 years ago

. But, as I understand it, it was a “misalignment” of the profit versus nonprofit adherents at the company.

btw these are the people who are convinced they can align artificial super intelligence

EMIRELADERO• 3 years ago

Not surprised the reason was this, though definitely surprised we ended up knowing about it this way.

All things said and done, I'm glad it turned out this way. Sam Altman reeked of scummy "tech-bro" vibes, not to mention the whole WorldCoin debacle (no offense to any "techbros" who might actually be building cool stuff to actually improve humanity and aren't only in it for the money)

psswrd123454• 3 years ago

Kara is an access journalist who has been holding Altman up as the "next Jobs" for a while now. She has no credibility as anything other than an opinionated "journalist" and it would not be surprising if her "sources" are none other than Altman himself.

ALittleLight2• 3 years ago

But Altman would be a good source. I don't like Kara Swisher, but Altman seems like a credible source here (if that is her source). He surely knows high up people at OpenAI and may have talked to them.

lmm• 3 years ago

He has every reason to claim that "top folks" were on his side regardless of whether it's true, and nothing to lose if it's false.

psswrd123454• 3 years ago

"But Altman would be a good source."

No he wouldn't. This is the definition of a biased source. I am sure he would provide a totally unbiased view of why his own Board found it necessary to suddenly take him out completely of his own company when he is THE public face of a massively growing industry.

This space is so incestuous and protecting of its own at its own expense. Good grief.

silenced_trope• 3 years ago

But have you seen her in those sunglasses! She's so cool!

dangerwill• 3 years ago

On this kind of story, where access is going to give you some insights, I'm happy enough to see her reporting. But yeah, absolutely spot on about Swisher in general. She has no technical chops to tell when someone is bullshitting her and egregiously pulls her punches, until you piss her off individually (see her falling out with Musk)

hipadev23• 3 years ago

She has no credibility as anything other than an opinionated "journalist"

Oh come on, Swisher has been a tech journalist for 20 years. She has actual documented credibility. Now whether or not she holds up Altman as the next Jobs or SBF, yeah who fucking knows. But to dismiss her integrity as a journo is going to require some evidence.

Ninjak8051• 3 years ago

This BOD went out and shot their own company. Sam & friends can now cherry-pick whoever they want from OpenAI and recreate most of the value in a few months under their own governance.

Firing Sam is absolutely one of the dumbest things a BOD has ever done in history. He's the founding CEO of the company that is insanely successful, he is the company. If you wanted him gone for some trivial reason you needed to get him onboard first, "here's a billion dollars, now spend more time with friends and family for the next 18 months".

psswrd123454• 3 years ago

"Firing Sam is absolutely one of the dumbest things a BOD has ever done in history."

You sure about that? This take is going to age like milk once facts come out.

postalrat• 3 years ago

The wonderful thing about these predictions is nobody cares how many times you are wrong.

anigbrowl3• 3 years ago

idk maybe wait to find out what the official reason was before predicting the rest of the season. Large corporations don't shit the bed on a momentary whim.

skepticATX• 3 years ago

So, if this is true, the safety folks won despite not having any evidence to support their position.

Am I the only one who remembers the numerous takes describing how GPT-4 was going to automate all jobs and possibly end the world? They have proven themselves completely incapable of evaluating the impact of their technology.

api• 3 years ago

Fear mongering works really well because we are cognitively biased toward it.

There’s probably an evolutionary basis. If you mistake a bush for a lion you are fine. If you mistake a lion for a bush you are dead. We are all descendants of the former not the latter.

DavidSJ• 3 years ago

I think few people were saying GPT-4 would do that. They're concerned about further developments of the same basic technology, on a rather uncertain timeline.

interestica• 3 years ago

First person to lose their job to AI? The ceo.

intellectronica• 3 years ago

Theory: the rumoured employee share purchase being prepared was, or at least was suspected to be, a ploy for liberating top talent from the shackles of their golden handcuffs, so that they can leave and work at a new org with a different structure. If the board had good reasons to believe they have been deceived about something along these lines they would have had no choice but to act as they did.

throwaway4aday• 3 years ago

This is going to be hilarious if Sam, Greg and a bunch of the research team wind up joining Grok. We do appear to be in the most ridiculous timeline after all.

ProllyInfamous• 3 years ago

Hopin'AI is gonna'be lit.

Imagine if all the top talent from multiple agencies united for the coming Senescent Wars.

popcorn.GIF

TheCleric• 3 years ago

There seems to be a lot of hostility here to nonprofits and I have no idea why. It’s okay to have a company, try to do something novel, and not have profit as a motive.

redundantly• 3 years ago

There are a lot of entrepreneurial idealists and c-suite wannabes on HN. Opinions tend to lean more to the right here.

Herring• 3 years ago

Imagine you sold your soul and you see someone else succeeding (wildly) without also selling theirs. Like crabs in a bucket, some people get mad and don't want to face the possibility they've been lying to themselves.

1letterunixname• 3 years ago

So much speculation and gossip here, but it's neither constructive nor useful and unlikely to be precise and accurate. AFAIK @sama is/was a good guy, creator of value, and big supporter of YC until proven otherwise.

Notes to self:

A. Go the Google route with a board that can't fire you.

B. Avoid dealing with all of the BS of publicly-traded C-corps with private equity. Instead of a board of directors, have a board of advisors and listen to their feedback.

C. Transparency and avoid surprises.

D. Know when a different style of leader is necessary for the phase of a venture and proactively succession/transition plan.

E. Don't get financially involved with other people without interest alignment, or you could end up being fired by a conspiracy theorist.

fennecbutt• 3 years ago

The sky is blue.

Kara Swisher: there will be more departures of top folks at OpenAI tonight

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