Apple Plans Smaller, Lighter Vision Headset; Meta Works on Cheaper Quest 3

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-10-08/apple-plans-smaller-lighter-vision-headset-meta-works-on-cheaper-quest-3-ar-lnhh1ulx

by elsewhen • 3 years ago

33 66 3 years ago

bloomberg.com

TheCaptain4815• 3 years ago

Palmer Lucky had an interesting point about these headsets in their current state, that even if we gave them out for FREE, people still wouldn't really use them. He's got a point that there isn't that "killer app" for VR.

code_runner• 3 years ago

I firmly believe this will suffer the same fate as 3d tv. Even sports couldn’t save the 3d tv.

I think the most that people would ever consider would be a HUD with some walking directions or something.

I could be wrong and it ends up being the biggest thing since the PC, but I just don’t understand even the most optimistic takes outside of cool gaming experiences.

lm28469• 3 years ago

VR/AR is being hyped on and off for 30 years, until it gets contact lens sized it's useless for most people

tmikaeld3• 3 years ago

It's interesting that you touch on the 3D TV, because real (180 degree, 3D, 3600P) 3D video in VR is really stunning compared to flat-screen.

This is where i think Apple can get a real foot into the door eventually, because the experience would be such a large leap from flatscreen.

makeitdouble• 3 years ago

On one side, a cool gaming experience would already be enough of a market. Looking at the Switch for instance, it's not something to sneeze at.

Now I don't think there will a "killer" app, but probably many niches, with one or more resonating with each of us. The same way current TV business isn't surviving on a single use case, but a constellation of cases where people want a big screen in their living room.

verdverm4• 3 years ago

Virtual monitors / desktop

joshstrange• 3 years ago

The Quest 2? Yes, I know that from personal experience and I had a friend return his Pro. I'm very interested for the Vision Pro though since it's higher resolution might actually allow me to do real work in it. Currently I maintain 2 offices with my full monitor/dock/camera/etc setup which is a pain and wasn't cheap to setup. Being able to move around (to different offices/locations) with a Vision Pro and have virtual displays would be amazing. Obviously we won't know until we get our hands on it but I have high hopes. Which, if not satisfied, I'll return it.

jayd165• 3 years ago

You could try the Quest 3 that comes out this week. Passthrough is much better and while the resolution does not mean a virtual 4k monitor, it's enough to work in.

Might want to experiment with that and virtual desktop in passthrough mode.

anonymoose33282• 3 years ago

I agree that that's probably the most "mass adoption" use case for these things, rather than just gaming or content consumption.

I would love to be able to have essentially a pair of "triple monitor setup goggles" that I can throw into a backpack, but right now the cost and battery life isn't there quite yet. But I have hope!

strulovich• 3 years ago

The killer app might be replacing your desktop. It’s just not good enough at it (same way early smartphones could browse the web, but were not good at it)

In a way, looks like Apple is gambling on that direction.

unsupp0rted• 3 years ago

Early smartphones weren't good enough at browsing the web, and also the web wasn't good enough at being browsable on early smart phones.

I wonder if we need a design revolution before headsets become "killer app" useful. I suspect we don't.

Just get the resolution and refresh rate high enough, and it's already a revolution.

foooorsyth• 3 years ago

Do you think they’ll really lean into that, though? I spend a lot of time on the road. They’d really need to care about the details for a road warrior, including how the device packs into a briefcase/travel bag. And perhaps even specifically design some accessories for those use cases.

If it’s just an awkward $3500 monitor that poorly packs into a carry on, it won’t work. AirPods Max poor folding comes to mind

joakleaf• 3 years ago

I've met people that think it can replace the Desktop, and I don't think so.

I drink coffee at my desk, and I suspect the headset will get in the way of drinking from the cup...

I also tried using the Hololens a couple of years back at my desk for longer periods of time, and there were loads of issues; Lower resolution than screens, narrow field-of-view (FOV), extra weight on head, unable to scratch my nose... And the headset getting in the way of the coffee cup.

It just wasn't a good experience.

Even if Apple has solved resolution and FOV, I doubt it can be comfortable enough to work with for 8 hours/day. It's 500 grams (probably) extra weight on your head, a lot of unnatural light, and weird seclusion from colleagues.

It is also not a good form factor for traveling, because unlike a laptop which is slim and flat, these headset are actually quite bulky and take up a lot of space in your bag. It would take up a good portion of space in your carry-on bag on a flight.

seydor• 3 years ago

really use them

What does 'really use them' mean? I use the Q2 almost daily to take a break just to view some street view images. It's a short-time passive entertainment device for me, and certainly worth the money for it. Most people own a few devices for casual use like that, like a tablet. It doesnt need to be like a smartphone

pjmlp2• 3 years ago

The first time I saw VR headsets being used was at Portuguese version of CES in 1994, it was being demoed with Doom.

To this day, it looks like a solution looking for a problem.

AR makes sense as HUD for specialized jobs, for everything else give us Holodeck.

lttlrck• 3 years ago

"solution looking for a problem"

Which is perhaps why it really only has a (consumer) foothold in gaming; it's not offering a solution to a real problem, it's selling an entertainment experience.

frou_dh• 3 years ago

If increased immersion is a solution looking for a problem then the same could be said for the historical increase of 3D game graphics fidelity in general.

jstimpfle• 3 years ago

Have you watched the latest Zuckerberg on Lex Fridman, not hard to imagine the problem anymore that it is (will be) solving.

It will take some more time though, and I'm still skeptical how many people will not hate putting on such a rig, personally I'm not even comfortable wearing headphones.

rogerclark2• 3 years ago

I've been using XReal (formerly NReal) Air glasses with my laptops lately. They just act as a display when plugged into a USB-C port. After using these seriously for a month or two, it's clear to me that the "killer app" for these HMDs is just using the computer for normal stuff. The ergonomics are great: I don't have to stare down at my laptop screen, and I don't even need a desk or table when I'm using the glasses – it's usually more comfortable to just put the laptop in my lap. And I can turn the laptop screen off, so nobody can see what I'm doing. It's a complete game changer for coffee shops, planes, and working in bed without disturbing your spouse. I don't think the Quest or other VR headsets are typically used this way.

The Vision Pro is obviously just a development platform for apps and for Apple to miniaturize everything, and then it's all going into a pair of regular glasses for everyone to wear all day. Meta is trying to get out in front of them with their Ray-Ban partnership, but those don't include a display yet, although I think they could have done it already.

coffeebeqn2• 3 years ago

That’s an interesting form factor - I wonder if you could get a headless laptop for it

houseatrielah• 3 years ago

A sense of presence combined with positional audio should unlock some use cases. Hang out with your favorite podcaster, movies with friends, courtside at the basketball game or MMA fight. Maybe there's a case for virtual travel -- the NeRF models of real places are getting pretty wild. The Lex/Zuckerberg chat was pretty amazing.

jillesvangurp2• 3 years ago

What I saw from Apple's announcement a few months ago actually impressed me. It's clever in how it allows repurposing of their existing 2D content (applications, movies, etc), some 3D content (games, 3D movies), and probably an initially very limited number of dedicated AR/VR experiences.

Content is king here and whoever launches hardware faces the empty room problem of having a lot of potential but no content to realize it. The Apple vision pro makes for a really great way to enjoy 2D content. So, it's immediately useful that way just as a really premium way to enjoy that content. Using it to just interface with your normal desktop apps also seems highly useful. It's cheaper than getting Apple's really expensive screen and offers more screen real estate.

None of that really requires new content. Then there's a huge back catalog of 3D movies, which have been coming out in cinemas for nearly 2 decades now that as of yet have struggled to reach home audiences. The deal with Disney seems like it is a smart move here. Disney has no other way to sell their 3D content right now. 3D television failed and it seems most streaming services aren't interested so far. And finally, there is of course a lot of game and VR content out there that can be adapted. Apple's new game porting kit is a strong hint that they are interested in tapping into that.

All of that before developing new content specifically for this device. That's a smart move and it stretches the use of this device beyond just gamers. My guess is that if they can scale production, it will sell really well. And then the dedicated content will ramp up over the next years.

Others may copy what they do technically but getting a content strategy together is much harder. Meta and Valve have bits and pieces of it. Same for Sony. But is it enough? I think they need to up their content game. Apple has that nailed it seems.

jayd165• 3 years ago

Leveraging iOS apps and the app store is a nice position for Apple to be in. I'm still a bit skeptical that most apps will easily convert from multitouch to look-and-pinch.

Funny enough, meta does actually have Android apps running in headset. The licensing battle is the bigger issue.

I wonder if Meta have a plan to take on flat Android app uploads if it looks like this is the way AR takes off.

coffeebeqn2• 3 years ago

I’m skeptical of meta as anyone but seeing the “video” call between Lex and Mark (Lex Friedman podcast on YouTube) with the photorealistic scanned 3D avatars looks really interesting. I only get to see my family about once a year and the zoom calls are hardly an antidote for much

d3w4s9• 3 years ago

I have been using my quest 2 to play beat saber, table tennis, minigolf and other games for a while. Great workouts, and worth every penny I paid for the headset.

hedora• 3 years ago

All the killer apps are for AR, not VR.

Examples:

Facial recognition + contact list

Shopping list

Monitor replacement that lets you see your keyboard and stuff on your desk.

Phone replacement that frees up your pockets.

Hands-free camera that can take pictures 5-10 seconds in the past.

jareklupinski• 3 years ago

try one of the 'lightsaber' apps, and you may not want to come back to 'the real' :)

latchkey• 3 years ago

I did and they are super fun to a point. I reached a limitation in my own skillset where getting to the next level felt so far away that it instantly got boring and I stopped.

alenrozac• 3 years ago

To me it was obvious from the start that the "Pro" part in the "Apple Vision Pro" will be dropped to deliver a "non-pro" product first without some of the features they're still working on - for example, EyeSight was not on during demos etc.

I'm interested to see how Cook will price the non-pro version.

TheRoque• 3 years ago

My myopa gets worse each year looking at a close screen. Could I avoid this by coding with a VR device ? Since its focal point is farther from the one required for a typical computer screen. If it can, I'd seriously consider working with it as much as possible.

Geee3• 3 years ago

I've been trying VR headsets since the first Oculus Dev Kit.

Apple has solved most of the problems plaguing other headsets. The only remaining problem, which is a huge problem, is weight and size. VR headset should be as effortless to wear as a pair of headphones. It's absolutely not a "software" problem, i.e. a lack of a killer app.

The problems they have already solved:

- Controllers and user interface (VR controllers and their associated interfaces are atrocious; you basically need to "shoot" at interface targets like shooting a gun, lol)

- Eye-tracking also makes "retina" resolutions possible with less compute, thanks to foveated rendering

- Low-latency/high quality AR

- Spatial tracking without external base stations

- Weight reduction with wired external battery

However, I'm afraid they'll need to scrap everything. Bigscreen Beyond is the form factor they should copy. It's just under 200g. Add extremely lightweight cameras for eye/spatial/hand-tracking. Remove everything else, like auto-adjusting IPD and the external display. Move compute to the battery case or stream it wirelessly from an external device. This would allow better thermals as well, and a fan wouldn't be needed in the device. High-resolution AR might have to go as well (although it might be possible to reconstruct from low-quality cameras).

I'm also waiting for Beyond to copy what Apple has done, and add wireless streaming. For PCVR in general, compute should be wirelessly streamed to/from a PC, and battery should be wired, like Vision Pro.

verdverm4• 3 years ago

https://visor.com is the vision pro on the cheap. The founder talks about his discussions with BB, and iirc, they do not want to add cameras

Geee3• 3 years ago

Seems really interesting! Too bad the website doesn't really tell what it's capable of. I skimmed the FAQ and it said it has two high-resolution cameras for AR.

Apple Plans Smaller, Lighter Vision Headset; Meta Works on Cheaper Quest 3

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