“Tipflation” may be causing backlash as more digital prompts ask for tips

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiplflation-digital-prompts-ask-for-tips-backlash/

by carabiner • 3 years ago

47 51 3 years ago

My resentment is not directed at the retail worker.

It's directed at at the system that enables this. If I don't tip, I'm being an asshole to the worker. If I do, I'm enabling the system that lets them get by with less on schedule wages. I hate it. I don't have a problem paying a service fee for table service, etc. (would much prefer it just be included, taxes too) but, yeah, I can't buy a pack of gum in the US without a screen asking me if I want to tip.

autoexec• 3 years ago

If I don't tip, I'm being an asshole to the worker.

No you're not. It's the employer being an asshole to the worker. Just because the asshole employer is begging you to volunteer to subsidize his labor expenses so that he can pay his workers less and less that doesn't make you obligated to and it ultimately hurts the workers anyway since what they really need are higher wages that aren't dependent on the whims (or wealth) of whoever happens to walk in, and the employer has no reason to provide that if customers agree to pay their employees for them.

I'll start paying tips for basic/retail transactions when companies start tipping me for being a good customer. I'd even be tempted to start carrying around an ipad and demanding that employees enter a tip for me on it, except that the employees have no control over the POS system their employer users and I don't want to waste my own time. Hopefully pressing the "No Tip" button every single time gets the message across.

garbagecoder2• 3 years ago

The kid in the store just wants a bit and doesn't understand that 9 times out of 10 and it's just an awkward interaction. I get what you're saying, but what I mean but "I'm the asshole" is in the eyes of that (usually) kid.

Eisenstein• 3 years ago

I hate how 'tips' are used for things like Walmart to offer free local delivery when it actually costs 'price + 10%' unless you want to be a horrible person. It would (and should) cost that price anyway if that's what it takes for the driver to get paid even close to reasonably -- just bake it into the price of delivery and don't rely on people's guilt to have it get done.

I would love to see a study on the difference in take-home wages between systems which are setup the same but have one with cheaper out-the-door offerings made through lower base wage and expected tip for the worker. I want to say I would expect the 'tip + lower pay' come out ahead of the 'set wage' on average, but I that may be me projecting my own actions onto others.

carabiner4• 3 years ago

You're gonna love this, tipping at self check-out! https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/tipping-at-self-chec...

Soon, your local gas station's pump will ask you for a tip. USPS will drop an empty envelope for tips. When paying for a parking ticket, an extra line will be added for gratuity.

carabiner4• 3 years ago

Normalize not tipping. Press that "no tip" button if you're ordering at the register. Just do it.

WirelessGigabit2• 3 years ago

I've been at places where there was no 'no tip' button. I had to put in 0 myself.

carabiner4• 3 years ago

Yes, I've seen this. Satanic.

WirelessGigabit2• 3 years ago

The USA needs a big reform on when it comes to what is displayed as a price to lure in people. What's the meaning of having a price advertised only to be met with + taxes and fees. I can calculate the taxes in my head but the fees are so arbitrary. What's stopping a shop advertising a car at 10% below MSRP and slapping on a dealer showroom MSRP? We shouldn't allow fees for things they are mandatory. Like the resort fee. Or the online purchase fee.

And the tips at the end. Always begging and begging.

InCityDreams• 3 years ago

Started in Europe too. I tried an online shop dealing in a very particular hobby of mine...got the end - 5 10 15% tip buttons.

I sent them a message: no more custom from me until the buttons go. I gave them the link to an alternative source i found.

Still no reply.

esperent2• 3 years ago

If they're using a pre-built sales system, which they almost certainly are, the buttons come with the system. There should be an option to turn them off but there might not be. And for sure, as a seller it's tempting to leave them there.

arielcostas• 3 years ago

Yeah, I can't understand how Americans can live that way, having to calculate the tax in their head, or adding the fees for everything and all.

In Europe I go to a supermarket, and if something has a 1€ price tag, I only need a 1€ coin. Every price includes VAT,unless the seller is B2B, since companies don't pay VAT. And in those cases, prices must indicate N€+VAT.

And the tips, that stupid model of calculating the percentage and stuff is new, copied from the US. At least in Spain it's common not to tip, or at most round to the next euro and "keep the change"

esperent2• 3 years ago

Every price includes VAT

As a seller this absolutely sucks. Not saying it's a bad thing. It's not. But imagine you're a small business, and you price the croissants you've just spent hours making at €1 each and you know you'll only get €0.79 of that. It feels unfair. Especially since you'll end up paying even more tax after that too.

So I guess you could say the US method favors the seller, while the (mostly) rest of the world method favors the buyer.

reddit_refugee32• 3 years ago

We live that way because we have no choice, and the majority of people here are still comfortable enough to not even realize that we're constantly getting screwed over in nearly every way.

perryizgr8• 3 years ago

Makes sense to keep the taxes separate. Citizens should know how much money is not going to the provider of their product/service, but to the gang with a monopoly on violence. You will find that in more authoritarian nations it is mandated to show the final price including taxes.

ElDji• 3 years ago

Make sense to keep separated to please every american libertarian tourist that travel around the world, as long as the actual total is showing.

stuaxo• 3 years ago

I'm too tired to read this - so when I pay for something and the receipt has the amount and another bit showing the tax then this is because I live in a more authoritarian state.

The more authoritarian state isn't the one where police not only carry guns but shoot citizens with them on a daily basis ?

Instead it's the one where you only see the vat seperate out on your receipt, OK.

martin84122• 3 years ago

Stores have to show the price including any and all applicable fees/taxes/etc, and when you've completed the transaction, those fees/taxes/etc are all itemised on your receipt...

WeylandYutani2• 3 years ago

Countries provide an annual budget each year down to the last cent which is posted on a public website. There's no secret.

WeylandYutani2• 3 years ago

I have no problem with asking for a tip. But in the US it's not really a question. They already put the tip on the bill!

People get paid a salary for their job. Seriously if that's not enough to survive just raise the wages by 15% and move on from tipping culture. But I heavily suspect that it's because of tax evasion.

Tanoc2• 3 years ago

People working in industries that get tips such as food services, delivery, hair dressing, and the like don't get salaries. Either they get paid hourly or commission. And because of that they aren't guaranteed a stable wage. Pushing for tips can be the way they cover for a shortfall in income when their employer shuffles their schedule towards less hours or a customer cancels an appointment.

As for raising wages... We've been trying to do that since 1993. There was a push in the '90s that wanted an increase from the $5 mark for federal minimum wage. There was an even larger movement called "Fifteen By Fifteen" which was designed around pushing the minimum wage up to $15 an hour by 2015 instead of the $7.25 it's been since 2009. Outside of the minimum wage, most hourly jobs in the U.S. have had their actual wages stagnate since 2011 when adjusted for inflation, if they've not outright decreased. Warehouse handling labour for example still only pays about $15 an hour national average, which when adjusted is actually less than it was in 2012 when it was $12 an hour. Working full time in that job without overtime ($15 an hour, 40 hour work weeks, 51 weeks a year) that's about $30,000 a year. For reference the average new car price nationwide is $48,000 a year (median $43,000), the average rent price for a two bedroom apartment is $1,900 a month as of May (median $1,600), and the average price of a house is $436,000 (median is the same although sources range from $420,000 to $480,000).

Non-specialist workers are kind of screwed over here in the States.

EDIT: Accidentally put rent as yearly instead of monthly.

nunez• 3 years ago

What's stopping a shop advertising a car at 10% below MSRP and slapping on a dealer showroom MSRP?

Nothing. That's exactly what happens, especially once you get sent into the Finance Office.

paul_grisham3• 3 years ago

I'm a landlord and have been giving my tenants the option to tip. It's well deserved for all the extra work making sure they have a nice place to stay.

McDyver• 3 years ago

Do you also tip them for being good tenants?

paul_grisham3• 3 years ago

I'm providing the roof over their heads, they provide the rent and (much appreciated) tip

tetris11• 3 years ago

This is the most out of touch comments on this entire platform, or one of the funniest.

Do you not have a day job that can supplement your rent-seeking behaviour?

rat9988• 3 years ago

Obviously the funniest

carabiner4• 3 years ago

~ love for landlords ~

paul_grisham3• 3 years ago

Thank you

preommr• 3 years ago

People are confused about tipflation because they don't want to acknowledge how messed up the tipping system in North America is.

With more places asking for tips I often see "I only tip if I am sitting down". Why? Because it's what people are used to. In time, this too will be normalized and people will one day tip at these places too like they do at restaurants.

And frankly, people should be tipping at other places if they tip at restaurants since all the same principles apply - your plumbers, doctors, etc. work hard too, so they deserve the compensation the same way waiters do. And before anybody says that waiters make less (which is not true in certain states and Canada where they make minimum wage), then just remove the exception for minimum wage instead of having tipping. And no you shouldn't continue to tip in the interm because the servers themselves have no incentive to switch since they make more under tipping - they don't care about making minimum wage so why would customers worry about it for them? The usual response to this is that we shouldn't push people down but pull people up, so let's do that, tip everybody and pull up those compensation numbers.

jtriangle2• 3 years ago

Tipping is a communication of exceptional value to the provider of a service. Doctors provide expected service, as dictated by the rules and regulations they, themselves are subject to. Plumbers are in a similar, though less rigid, situation, ie, most services have a very clear expectation of service to be provided that is not normally exceeded if at all.

Food service workers are in a situation where, the expectation is self-service, and as such all of the service they provide, ie, the things you wouldn't do yourself, is exceptional and therefore it is necessary to communicate that additional value provided in the form of a tip.

The reason the mass deployment of unnecessary tipping prompts seems so consumer adverse to most people is that they do not have a well thought out idea of what is actually happening when they tip, and instead have to wrestle with guilt or tradition to make their decisions. When you understand the situation at hand, there is no such guilt and that allows you to see the mass deployment of tipping prompts for what they really are: a ploy to manipulate customers into subsidizing employee wages.

Nullabillity• 3 years ago

That would make some semblance of sense if there was an option to opt out of the table service.

wryoak• 3 years ago

Research demonstrates time and again that tipping has no correspondence with value provided. My own experience as a bartender anecdotally backs this up: someone visits the bar and asks for a single ($5) beer and tips $10 for my amazing value-adding service of opening the refrigerator and popping the top off a bottle for them. For another person I make four long islands (long islands have four alcohols and some mixers - not difficult to make but tedious, and the patrons witness the entire process) and they tip me a dollar on their $40 bill. These are all cases that happened in the last month. But that last sentence of yours sounds more insightful than it is: customers always pay employee wages. It’s not a subsidy, customers are the source of the base income as well as any bonuses, commissions, tips, etc. That’s how business works. Revenue covers liabilities, if successful.

I’ve thought about it time and time again and the only justification I can identify for tipping is as a proxy for surge pricing. Maybe we just need to figure out how to price products based on business traffic. Do you price the empty hours higher because of the added value of privacy and exclusivity, or the busy ones to keep traffic manageable? The practice of “gratuity included for tables of 8 or more” seems to suggest the latter is a more natural business move, but there might be a place for the former as well…

StimDeck2• 3 years ago

I see it the other way around, if I am not tipping my doctor or my plumber then why should I have to tip my server or barista. The answer of course is that people who rely on tips don’t earn a living wage. That’s before accounting for white servers earning more than their black peers. The US regulates other areas that perpetuate racism like borrowing and employment.

Tipping should be illegal.

EEMac• 3 years ago

It's called bribery or corruption and is common in third-world countries. "You actually want me to do the job I'm already paid for? Give me cash."

Melting_Harps2• 3 years ago

It's called bribery or corruption and is common in third-world countries. "You actually want me to do the job I'm already paid for? Give me cash."

While true, it is just veiled and normalized in 1st World nations and perhaps more pernicious due to severity; at least it's honest in the so called 3rd World as you mentioned which ironically makes it more tolerable to me.

I don't like it, but I'm also beyond the hope we can undo this until an immense reduction in population makes housing, and the maintenance that supports it, a post-scarcity commodity which I fear will likely never completely happen.

NoZebra120vClip• 3 years ago

Yes, one area where I am forced to tip significantly and very often is with my food delivery service. This is, of course, a matter of "pre-tipping": I must enter the tip amount when placing my order, not after receiving the service. So I consider any "pre-tip" to be a bribe, because I cannot know who is handling the service and I cannot know how the service will be performed.

I have seen many food delivery workers (they are all contractors, of course) who brag about stealing food from bad tippers. I am not a bad tipper, and delivery drivers steal the drink from my order all the time. In fact they did it more often when I just ordered one drink; now I often order two, and I find that it comes in a carrier and they leave it alone. Perhaps it's a huge bother for them to wrestle one lonesome moist cup, and they'd rather keep it for themselves.

If I do decide that the driver caused some big problem or outright stole from the order, I will pursue customer service to reduce the tip to $0. They don't always understand that, so I have to spell it out. And yes, I do increase the tip when I find that exceptional service has been rendered.

martin84122• 3 years ago

If stuff is missing from my order due to theft, then I'll be contacting customer service to let them know that either they replace the entire order(I'm not touching food messed with by the delivery driver) or I'll not be paying anything at all. If they refuse I let them know that I'll be contacting my card issuer asking for a chargeback. They usually comply before I do that.

“Tipflation” may be causing backlash as more digital prompts ask for tips

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