preommr

I love bun - although disliked how Jarred did the conversion.

Project-wise, nothing has changed.

Bun was always great because of the fantastic dx - it was just really easy to use , with stuff like out of the box typescript (unreal that it took so long for node, and it's behind a super long flag, wtf...). And it didnt have the weirdness of deno, it maintained backwards compatability with node api, and it just worked.

But it was never stable. You'd have to be fool to believe that a single project could stably do everything bun covers. It's always been an insane project. It was built on top of zig, a langauge that hasn't reached 1.0, and is constantly changing, and throw in how he was rewriting his own custom zig stuff. Like c'mon, let's apply some common sense here.

For me, little has changed. I am still going to use bun as a nice dev tool, and use node for production.

I also believed the same after reading's Bun's post.

This doesn't even make any sense. The part that you're quoting[0], is Andrew commenting on the fallout from the blog post he made. How could you have thought something about a blog post that hadn't come out yet?

Also, if you are talkinga bout the post Jarred made, it was extremely charitable about zig: "Zig made Bun possible. I would never have been able to build this much in 1 year if it wasn't for Zig."

[0] "The other critical mistake I made with this post was failing to consider the rather obvious and important point that this might affect Zig users who knew next to none of these facts and have only the surface level understanding that an ex-Zig-user is getting trashed by the language creator."

There are astute comments about the post's tone elsewhere in this thread[0]

But this killed my hopes for Zig.

The drama is fun, and Andrew is maybe even admirable in his earnest, but this just isn't the kind of professionalism needed for a serious project. I know that's boring and uninspired, but that's what I want my tech stack and it's management to be.

Also, maybe Jarred was a net negative, but bun was also a really big project using Zig, and the project leaving isn't as good for Zig as Andrew is making it seem. It genuinely seems he's putting a lot of priority on purity and ideology over just growth of the language. And I am sorry, but adoption and reaching critical mass is an important part of a serious programming language.

[0] esp. nilirl.

This seemed to work best.

Unexpected given what I know second-hand about the valley - which is to grind leetcode and keep job hopping.

The problem is that coding was sold as the pancea. If you were fired, "learn to code", if you're in prison, "learn to code", if you're in kindergarden, "learn to code".

Even in this article, it's talking about how it's a good way to learn math and formal thinking. Yea, as an application. If you want to learn math, learn some basic fundamentals tied specifically to math, and then come apply it to code.

Coding is like welding in that it's a useful skill, a craft unto itself, but also integral for modern day manufacturing that opens up a world of possibilities. You don't see welding being suggested as a form of excercise, or the ticket to being a multi-millionaire.

I hate that these discussions go nowhere because there's no common metric anymore.

I have no idea what stuff like "is it always perfect?" means because it varies so much from person to person. Too many people have different expectations, are working on different problems, or have different standards or goals for there to be a common constructive discussion.

Is this just a naming quirk, or the start of them trying to monetize Vite?

VoidZero got acquired by Cloudflare, which gives out insane amounts of free services, I'd be very surprised if vite is the place they try start pinching pennies.

I wonder if there is a push towards a "boring but works" stack.

Yea, this.

eslint -> oxlint (but in rust, and fast)

prettier -> oxfmt (but in rust, and fast)

webpack -> vite (...I have thoughts; but vite is popular enough so w/e)

rolldown -> tsdown (ts support, but in rast and fast)

jest -> vitest (works with vite)

It's basically taking the last decade of established conventions and supporting ts, rewriting in rust for speed, and making it all interoperable.

I just want to know how the avg. dev is using these things. I feel like it's a completely different world, and all the noise is from luddites, or spotify pushing 45000 deployments to prod per day.

It's so far from the days of you should try git because it's distributed, or intellij because it has great intellisense, or vscode cuz it's fast - where the value proposition was obvious and understandable.

Except it wasn't the basement and first floor.

It was the first seven floors. Coincidentally, also the floors most of the higher-ups don't work on. Or at least that's how it's being reported, so I don't think people's outrage is absurd.

I actually agree partially with the title.

I just let the agent run - it'll run better diagnostics than I can (misc. git, permission checks, commands with flags I don't remember).

If the process yields an error - it means it can't solve it and I have to step in.

Being desperate and copy pasting the error back in is just foolish procrastination.

The actual body of the article with just passing in your api keys is insane tho.

I will die on the hill that Java was a good language, and had the potential to leapfrog us from where we are by at least a decade.

But it got hobbled by the awful, awful enterprise style culture, cultural misunderstanding of OOP (especially inheritance), and corporation shenanigans (fucking oracle).

Because, like many things in web, it's a patchwork of compromises due to legacy issues, rampant inconcistencies and trying to be too clever.

You get results where it's really difficult intuitively understand it because at that point you're not really meant to. Realistically, people just follow a guide, or some lib, and move on.

The opposite of that has been happening for 20 years now with cloud compute. It won't happen with AI models either.

AI is different.

Cloud computing genuinely is cheaper on average. It's better than paying for cisco servers, and at scale, it's cheaper than managed platforms (ala Heroku), and it's a coin toss for when you're in the middle ground and constantly approaching the point of rebuilding poor-man versions of existing products but with very very expensive engineering salaries.

In contrast, local models offer dramatic savings, and are magnitude of orders better in certain aspects: like stability - the performance is all over the place with traditional AI companies as they divert compute to their next big thing.

The benefits to maintaining your own infrastructure are pretty moderate to low, with very high risk.

And also, alternate models are pretty easy to use and easy to swap out unlike the vendor lock-in that exists with cloud services.

The worlds is grim because billionaires have a large part of the cake and the rest has to fight over the crumbs.

et tu hn?

I am tired of seeing this nonsense on social media (it's particularly bad on reddit, where /r/antiwork and it's offshoots keep hitting the front page)

- Wealth is not a zero-sum game

- Yes, billionaires shouldn't exist because they're a symptom of a broken system

- And they don't exist on a long enough timescale, there's a reason why oil barons and railroad tycoon families are a shadow of their former selves, and why the richest people are all in tech/oil

- Billionaires and increasing income inequality are a symptom of a bigger problem. Musk wouldn't have as much money if his publicly traded stock wasn't as popular... among the public.

- Modern day securities are broken because they're poorly regulated because the public doesn't vote for people that would do the regulation.

Some guy just built a motion design tool in 4months - and it's impressive.

I've been building a design tool myself for many years and I like following this space, and also know how hard it is to build an editor (not just the code, but the product design as well). I've been following different subreddits (like /r/vibecoding) to see what people are building, and levels of delusion of capability is high. Lots of junk software that goes nowhere.

This might be the first thing I've seen that's genuinely quite impressive technically, and it's made by someone with domain experience, so even if there's lapses, overall, this seems actually useful.

When I first saw the post, I genuinely thought this was vapor ware because this kind of thing is quite difficult, and even with AI I hadn't seen other people build something. I often say, where's all the photoshop/illustrator/etc. alternatives. Well here's something. The guy did the interview where someone clicked around and actually built something. So it seems genuine.

The app itself has node-based editing, and layers, and timelines like After Effects, Cavalry (now owned by Canva), etc. This kind of procedrual workflow can be really powerful, and if it integrates with plugins (which it should be apt for), it opens up a whole world of possibilities.

Also bonus points for the website being quite nice as well. Really doesn't look vibe coded with gradients everywhere, and uppercase titles everywhere. But it still has a distinct aesthetic that really helps with branding.

- Main thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/MotionDesign/comments/1tbzyvc/i_spe...

- youtube video interview of someone using the app: https://youtu.be/PDDVdsQAX_g?t=489

- Some extra info on author's process: https://www.reddit.com/r/MotionDesign/comments/1tbzyvc/i_spe...

elaborate?

It's using code blocks that have language highlighting, and the appropriate whitespacing.

What's the problem?

My only consolation is that this is so obvious that it's not going to lead to a disaster. Things like the housing crisis happened because long-established institutions like credit ratings and mortgage lenders didnt do their jobs.

It's the swiss cheese model, hidden behind curtains.

This is like a giant sign saying you can buy $2 for a $1.

That is irrelevant to the topic of ownership since you bought the product, you can now update the code.

If you want, you can now change that behavior.

Whether that's allowed by the TOS and what the consequences to that are is also a separate issue. At that point, people shouldn't buy the product if they disagree with the conditions.

So why is it OK for a software developer to just arbitrarily decide to flip a switch and remove my ability to use a product I paid for?

I see this argument repeated, and it's made exactly like this where it sets up a strawman and then brings up software.

No one is coming into your computer to repossess your software.

They are either turning off their servers, OR they are ending a subscription.

If you have a bus pass, you can do anything you want with the card. Your chisels being 50 years old, has nothing to do with you being able to ride the bus forever just because you bought a one-month pass.

So in the end it seems I have (licks finger and turns to the wind) 1.47x better outcomes if the app were a Ruby on Rails app instead.

Am I reading this right... did this number just come out of thin air?

Is this just generated based on the vibes of the AI?

Also, to just add them up and compare them like that is just compounding nonsense on nonsense.

You still can’t call a function that returns a future from synchronous code. (Well, you can, but if you do, the person who later maintains your code will invent a time machine, travel back in time to the moment that you did this and stab you in the face with a #2 pencil.)

Author makes up a lie.

Then lampshades it away with a colorful non sequitur.

---

The alternatives that people praise like golang, have other tradeoffs that are much worse because the async logic is now implicit. Your entire codebase is now a surface area that is at risk of being blocked by waiting on a channel; the the mitigation of this is through responsible use of coroutines, but then you're right back around to extra information about your code that is analogous to colring, except not as explicit as async/await.

What websites?

I feel like this is a scene from a movie where a character goes "what are you talking about? Look around us, it's already gone" (idk why i am picturing Mark Whalberg for some reason).

But it's all just reddit, medium, twitter (twitter pages, w/e those blog things are).

The internet as we knew it is gone, man.

I mean....

nah, I am kidding.

But I will say that accomplished names in software that also make bombastic statements against AI are people that were... "opinionated" to begin with, and skirt the line between genius and madness quite often. I am thinking names like Jon Blow.

I'd say that most of the big names probably have nuanced opinions and do their own thing rather than spending time on social media.

dow

I was wondering what the Dow jones stock index thing was...

It took me a minute, but I am guessing this means department of war? It feels strange to see terminology evolve like this over my lifetime.

At first I thought this might've been a 'freedom fries' thing, but I guess it's pretty official now.

Is the CURL thing mostly from the primagen video, or did it break into the greater social media sphere and I just missed it?

Well I've got egg on my face.

I am in that post, defending bun.

I thought for sure the peanut gallery was overreacting. Especially when the concern was absurd - because who would do such an insance thing? Like, at the time I legitimately thought 'no way a project switches over in a few months'. Even as an absurd hypothetical, I couldn't even imagine the prospect of it being done in a matter of days.

Feeling really confused right now.

I am genuinely speechless.

I don't understand the rationale behind how any project, especially of this magnitude, can seriously build something stable this way.

My consolation - and it could be pure cope - is that at least I am in the same boat as a huge company like Anthropic, and they surely wouldn't be stupid enough to also build their cli tools around something that they saw as risky.

feelsbadman.

We need to seriously (or at least try to) make changes to our pedagogical processes.

Yea, struggling, is one way, but there are others like optimizing for spaced reptition, visualization, etc.

The shift should be from "grind these problems so the pain sticks with you", to "create a mini logic board in minecraft to blow up that mountain". Or, "build mini simulations to show how forces work, and tie them to an interactive applet".

Those are not assertions of anything meaningful. We have no idea what his expectations were. Maybe he expected it to be absolute crap, and it was only kind of crap. None of it means that it's actually viable. My fat uncle trying to beat Bolt's time could exceed my expectations by improving from 30s to 20s, doesn't mean it's ever going to be a reality.

In case people still don't get it, Jarred works for Anthropic and Bun belongs to Anthropic.

In case people still don't get it, Jarred works for Anthropic and Bun belongs to Antrhopic. This means that people that have an ax to grind against anthropic (admittedly a reasonable position), will take the most antagonistic position they possibly can because of personal bias.