Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

https://www.twitch.tv/p/en/legal/terms-of-service/#11-simulcasting

by obittner • 3 years ago

76 50 3 years ago

twitch.tv

SllX3• 3 years ago

I thought this was already prohibited by Twitch and conversely YouTube Live?

Will this change actually affect any existing Twitch streamer practices?

f33d5173• 3 years ago

Banned for twitch partners. So it won't affect major streamers, but smaller ones yes.

SllX3• 3 years ago

Ah, okay. I didn’t realize that was the distinction. Thanks!

carstenhag2• 3 years ago

Note that being a twitch partner doesn't give you monetary benefits or a better share from bits (one-time-"donations") or subscriptions. It only gives the streamer/community a verified profile and more emojis. So perhaps some more visibility on the start page but that's it.

jedberg• 3 years ago

The big music streamers will often stream on Twitch, Instagram, and FB all at once. Looks like Instagram is fine but FB has a desktop client and may not be allowed.

SllX3• 3 years ago

TIL. Thanks!

minimaxir• 3 years ago

More importantly, the new TOS bans in-stream ads (i.e. burned-in sponsorship logos) which is how most events on Twitch earn revenue:

Twitch has the exclusive right to monetize the Twitch Services, including without limitation, the exclusive right to sell, serve, and display advertisements on the Twitch Services. This means you may not, nor may you allow a third party to, insert or embed prerecorded advertising units into your live stream, including without limitation video advertisements (whether pre-, mid-, or post-roll); display or “banner” advertisements; and audio advertisements.

https://twitter.com/zachbussey/status/1666111039736258561

whateveracct• 3 years ago

I assume this also applies to donations?

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF2• 3 years ago

i.e. burned-in sponsorship logos

This is actually not something that is banned but they do call it "limited". One of the images on the tweet[0] shows that "On-stream brand overlays are limited to 3% of screen size." I'd imagine the mention of "banner" advertisements is for logos which take up more than 3% of the screen.

[0] https://twitter.com/zachbussey/status/1666111039736258561/ph...

jsmith452• 3 years ago

Somebody on twitter pointed out that twitches own example of an overlay that is 3% of the screen, seems like it may exceed 3% of the example image, not by a whole lot, perhaps it is 3.5% or so, but still... Be interesting to segment and measure.

Like honestly, I feel like most people have trouble conceptually 3% of the area of the screen. Like I see a stream with a sponsor logo over a small portion, and without literally counting pixels, knowing is something is 3% or 5% does not seem easy.

EvanAnderson• 3 years ago

So, product placement it is, then!

lyu072823• 3 years ago

This will kill all major streamer events, like the OTK live show they had in Las Vegas last week or the Streamer Awards. I also find it strange how YouTube has no problem with it but somehow Twitch makes a big deal about it.

If anyone is curious about the production quality of those shows:

The Streamer Awards 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnoiaRk7eqM&t=1830s

OTK Elevated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1fdisLMwIc&t=1202s

carstenhag2• 3 years ago

In Germany, most Twitch streamers are pissed off at twitch anyway. They only want to chip in 10k for big events for example - private tv broadcasters are putting in way more money and getting the community to their sites.

Also: The old 70/30 deals that some had, expired. 5€ subs got turned to 4€ subs so twitch has to pay less for twitch prime subs.

But there's no real alternative, YouTube streaming is terrible (no community feeling), kick.com is the refugee island for casino streamers.

jsmith452• 3 years ago

So things like GDQ marathons would need to change or get special permission. GDQ is literally the only stream I've ever seen that directly embedded video advertisements for sponsors. Clearly that can no longer be done.

But Lets ignore that and focus on their explained 3% overlays being allowed, as some sibling comments mention. (Which weirdly is not mentioned in the TOS at all, but only supplementary material).

Let's look only at one aspect of their marathon, one that seems innocuous. They have a banner area at the bottom, that often has various stats or other information. Ocassionally it may show the events own logo. That is clearly fine. And sometimes it shows the charity's logo. Is that a problem? Well, if they received literally nothing from the charity, it would not be sponsored content, so being a big banner on the screen is fine.

However, I know that that PCF for AGDQ actually pay GDQ a fixed amount for running the livestream, to help partially offset production costs. Which technically makes them a sponsor, in addition to being the charity benefiting. (They make far far more from the event then they spend obviously.)

Whoops. Clearly that must go, I guess.

And I guess they cannot have bigger logos of other sponsors be put up on screen even briefly during breaks, except I guess if they do it by way of physicals carboard cutouts or similar, as there is no only a few seconds exception or anything like that ...

impulser_• 3 years ago

What are companies like Riot, and CSGO hosts going to do?

They run the largest viewing events on Twitch, and they also simulcast on YouTube.

How are they suppose to make money to run these events if they aren't allowed to sell advertising?

They might be forcing them to only stream on YouTube going forward.

causi• 3 years ago

Is Twitch having money issues? This type of "it hurt itself in its confusion", "fuck everybody that likes us" behavior is typical for failing companies but I thought Twitch was healthy.

haunter• 3 years ago

Unlikely when they are subsidiary of Amazon + they have near monopoly. Mixer got shutdown, Youtube Gaming and Facebook Gaming doesn't even come close.

Jaydenaus• 3 years ago

Potentially due to Kick providing some competitive pressure. I've noticed a lot of smaller streamers multi-streaming with Kick mentioned in their stream title.

BasedAnon• 3 years ago

Alot of companies seem to be having money issues now that they're not being bankrolled by infinite loans, such as Reddit

wilg• 3 years ago

It's a shame there's not an easy-to-use version of Twitch where you pay your own bandwidth costs and whatnot. It would make the economics a lot clearer to everyone.

mrguyorama• 3 years ago

The problem is that basically no content creators could self start in that world. Right now, most of these companies benefit from having a massive pipeline of kids dreaming to be stars, who all shoot their shot at streaming. Some inevitably have a knack, or catch some fad, or something, and can generate massive revenue and replace the people who have been chewed up and extracted by the machine, because it's basically designed to burn you out.

Any content distribution system that doesn't give away a free tier would have to build it's own pipeline for training, filtering, testing, and motivating creators.

veave• 3 years ago

So self-start in twitch, which is free, and then move onto another platform that allows for sponsorships once you get one and can therefore afford to pay for the bandwidth.

Dylan168072• 3 years ago

If you haven't caught an audience yet then you're probably streaming to very few people. A few dollars can cover that bandwidth until you get one or two subs or donators.

rektide• 3 years ago

What evidence do you have that getting self started is so impossible?

bdcravens• 3 years ago

For clarity, you may Simulcast on mobile-first services that support live streaming.

As I read it, this means that TikTok or similar services aren't covered by this ban.

femboy• 3 years ago

Twitter, Reddit, Slack, Twitch

nathanaldensr• 3 years ago

It's amazing what the era of cheap money coming to an end is exposing.

ChrisLTD• 3 years ago

I don't see how they can enforce this. Nor should they.

ebiester• 3 years ago

This is very enforceable for the smaller group of actually profitable streamers. They're trying to make it more difficult for people to reduce their dependence on twitch.

s1artibartfast3• 3 years ago

Enforcement seems like the easy part. Simply suspend or ban accounts. I don't like the changes, but nobody has a constitutional right to stream on Twitch

willcipriano• 3 years ago

Antitrust enforcement when? This behavior seems very anticompetitive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_dealing

s1artibartfast3• 3 years ago

Exclusive dealing is pretty different.

Twitch isn't selling something to streamers, and giving them noncompetitive terms.

They are paying them to stream, which is the opposite.

It is more like putting limitations on what advertising a NASCAR driver can put on the car you are paying them to drive.

I still dont like the decision from twitch. Let people do what they can to make money and keep streaming.

everforward2• 3 years ago

I think donations are where the NASCAR analogy falls apart. Twitch keeps a percentage of donations made on the platform, which starts to look a lot like Twitch selling a platform (and access to users) where the pricing is a percentage of revenue.

I don't think Twitch paying the streamers really nullifies that, otherwise companies could escape an Exclusive Dealing conviction by just adding an "oh, and we pay you $3" clause to their contracts.

Twitch makes more sense as a company if they're a seller. There's a clear story there where streamers buy access in exchange for a percentage of their revenue on the platform. If they're a buyer, what are they buying from streamers?

Just to add on top, I think streamers only get money from ads if they're at some tier with Twitch (partner, I think?). There's a whole bunch of streamers that aren't getting paid anything directly by Twitch, and are only getting donations after Twitch has taken their cut.

snvzz2• 3 years ago

Worse yet: https://medium.com/@MyLawyerFriend/lets-take-a-minute-to-tal...

snvzz2• 3 years ago

Much more concerning: Sponsorship guidelines.

https://youtu.be/-5zGuFPxW88

Twitch: New TOS bans multi-streaming/simulcasting

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